Advice please: kicked by new horse

[flat3]

Thanks all for the support - its scary going it alone for the first time, even with experts around! I've arranged to discuss with YO tomorrow

 

[SpringArising]

Don't you think that's exactly what's happening ?
OP is relatively new to horse keeping and that's how you learn being making errors and learning from them .
Now OP knows if a horse is hungry and it can see food it will try to get the food if you then try to remove the food it may be cross so you need a plan to stop that happening or a plan to make yourself safe .
Horses may kick the more you live with them the more you learn how to handle them But you have to learn through experiance .
OP instinctively corrected the horse ( good reaction ) and then went away and thought about what happened and asked people what they thought( good reaction )
I think she's doing just fine .

I agree. We all make mistakes and learn from them, and we all do things that aren't exactly by the rulebook too!

When I was a kid & didn't know better I had a few very lucky near-misses. First one was leaning over the stable door to give the new riding school pony a pat. Was stroking him for about five mins when he suddenly lunged at me, face level.

Second one was walking behind the YO's new TB. There was a horrible split second where I knew what was coming. Just as I passed he tried to double-barrel me. Thankfully there was a tiny break in the bushes that I darted into.

You learn as you go, hopefully unscathed in the process!

 

[cundlegreen]

There is NO circumstance when it is OK for a horse to act aggresively towards it's owner. None. I would expect any horse to stand tied until it was released, no matter what distractions were at play.

Hurray, the voice of reason! There is a lot of pussy footing in the replies to the poster. OP, you are doing everything right, including expecting your horse to put up with you moving him even if food is there. Basic manners are easy enough to teach, but you must respond instantly to something like this. If this had happened to me, (not that my lot would dream of kicking), then it would be a loud shout to get his attention, and a quick kick back. This what would happen in a herd of horses, and you are his herd leader now. Let common sense prevail!!

 

[Fellewell]

There's usually a thread about food problems at this time of year, so I wouldn't worry op.

As others have said, the grass has stopped, so additional forage takes on extra importance for your horse, not just for nutrition but because it's an essential form of heat for them and it's getting chilly.

You said you were standing close to him ? Maybe stand closer and/or let him know you're coming. When is your farrier due? Good farriers are the unsung 'whisperers' of the horse world. They truly know the value of a strategically placed hand or boot, their livelihood depends on it. Watch a good farrier at work and study how they work around a strange horse. If manners have been instilled in the first place your farrier will bring them out.

Also check out your local agricultural college for BHS new owner courses. Well worth the money.

 

[Wagtail]

I haven't read any other answers, but the scenario you describe is asking for trouble. I would not put a horse in that situation. There may be plenty of grass but it is not satisfying at the moment. We have loads here but the horses can't wait to come in and tuck into their hay. I also think it is good practice to feed hay just before riding because it lines the stomach and helps prevent gastric ulcers. So in your situation, OP I would fill (or part fill) a hay net with some of his hay ration and tie it up at the ring you are tying him to. I know feeding hay from the floor is generally preferred, but I make an exception whilst preparing to ride or doing other things such as washing off legs when you want them to stand still. Yes, horses should also learn to stand still without hay, but not when they are hungry. Well done for asking for help OP, and try not to worry too much. It doesn't sound as though this is an ingrained behaviour; you just need to learn not to put your horse in a position where he might kick out in frustration. I had a cob here who kicked his owner in an almost identical situation. Then he moved here and was here for eight years. He never once kicked anyone again.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Hurray, the voice of reason! There is a lot of pussy footing in the replies to the poster.

Let common sense prevail!!

I see no pussy footing, but much helpful advice to a rookie owner.

Whilst of course a horse shouldn't kick, it is also encumbent on the owner to set themselves up to succeed. Putting a horse into a stable then refusing to allow it to eat the hay which is already there is creating an unnecessary a trigger point. Offering a hay net for the horse to munch is IHMO simply common sense .

 

[Damnation]

There is NO circumstance when it is OK for a horse to act aggresively towards it's owner. None. I would expect any horse to stand tied until it was released, no matter what distractions were at play.

Yep, can understand moving the hay to him, that wouldn't bother me, the kicking however is unacceptable and you did the right thing OP. Sounds like it was a bit of boundry pushing if he then stood quietly.

Thanks all for the support - its scary going it alone for the first time, even with experts around! I've arranged to discuss with YO tomorrow

Perhaps start doing some groundwork with him, finding out how to move his body from the ground giving voice aids. My mare stands at her haynet in a corner, but she will move her bum and front end over so I can get between her and the wall with plenty of room and she is able to continue eating. I have had her 6 years and she is incredibly responsive to my voice aids, even when mucking out etc. Groundwork is very under rated, just little things like making him move over, stop when you stop, stand quietly when you are, just establishing some rules. If he doesn't do what you ask just quietly ask him to go "back" out of your space. They soon catch on

My horse will tie up with or without hay, but in winter when they are hungry and the grass is loosing its goodness I always let them stand tied up with a haynet. Come summer she will stand for ages minus food as the grass is so good she's full!

 

[Amye]

Yep, can understand moving the hay to him, that wouldn't bother me, the kicking however is unacceptable and you did the right thing OP. Sounds like it was a bit of boundry pushing if he then stood quietly.



Perhaps start doing some groundwork with him, finding out how to move his body from the ground giving voice aids. My mare stands at her haynet in a corner, but she will move her bum and front end over so I can get between her and the wall with plenty of room and she is able to continue eating. I have had her 6 years and she is incredibly responsive to my voice aids, even when mucking out etc. Groundwork is very under rated, just little things like making him move over, stop when you stop, stand quietly when you are, just establishing some rules. If he doesn't do what you ask just quietly ask him to go "back" out of your space. They soon catch on

My horse will tie up with or without hay, but in winter when they are hungry and the grass is loosing its goodness I always let them stand tied up with a haynet. Come summer she will stand for ages minus food as the grass is so good she's full!

I was going to reply but this pretty much says all i was going to!

OP you're doing just fine, you and the horse are still getting to know each other and he's probably testing his boundaries. Just be firm and fair like you have been and i'm sure he'll catch on.

I was going to say about the groundwork too I did this with my boy and he knows not to snatch for food now, he has to wait until I say so for his dinner etc. He's very greedy and used to try and pull to food all the time but I've been firm and done loads of groundwork just to get him listening to my voice which has helped

 

[LD&S]

Thanks all for the support - its scary going it alone for the first time, even with experts around! I've arranged to discuss with YO tomorrow

It would be even scarier if you didn't ask for help, it can feel like you are quite alone but there will always be people here who can help, sometimes the comments can seem a little extreme but generally there are enough suggestions, ideas etc. that fit with your way of doing things that you'll soon gain in confidence.

 

[jhoward]

You possibley just tickled his leg with the hay and overreacted to that, if he comes in.and tucks in I'd either give him five mintutes or tie him.outside the stable

 

[Goldenstar]

Horses except those who are food aggressive should accept being groomed tacked clipped etc
while eating hay .
While I think it's always a good idea to leave horses in peace while they eat their bucket feed I think it's a good thing that they accept being worked on with while they eat their forage .
I see no point in a large horse standing for an hour and half while you clip it without forage .

 

[gunnergundog]

Lots of good advice. I am in the camp that it is never acceptable for a horse to kick out - assuming the human has deployed a modicum of common sense in their training/handling/what they are asking.

OP - if you find yourself in the same situation again with a mature horse I would go and get the long-handled yard broom, push horse's quarters over and then use the broom to pull the hay towards you at a safe distance for you to retrieve. If ned gets bolshy, you have a greater distance between you and him and can introduce him to the delights of Mr Bristly Broom on his arse. Normally works a treat.

I think you handled the situation well - keep your confidence, it was probably just a one-off but you are now armed with other strategies, some to avoid such a situation again and others to deal with it safely should you find yourself in the same circumstance.

 

[Goldenstar]

Thanks all for the support - its scary going it alone for the first time, even with experts around! I've arranged to discuss with YO tomorrow

You will be fine ,a net for were you tie him up is all you need it's a big learning curve and you learn by doing things .

 

[Dry Rot]

Don't you think that's exactly what's happening ?
OP is relatively new to horse keeping and that's how you learn being making errors and learning from them .
Now OP knows if a horse is hungry and it can see food it will try to get the food if you then try to remove the food it may be cross so you need a plan to stop that happening or a plan to make yourself safe .
Horses may kick the more you live with them the more you learn how to handle them But you have to learn through experiance .
OP instinctively corrected the horse ( good reaction ) and then went away and thought about what happened and asked people what they thought( good reaction )
I think she's doing just fine .

Can you please cut-and-paste the part of my post where I say the OP has done something wrong?

I have merely repeated what my friend, the WHW inspector, had told me about horses kicking and biting in the hope that others might learn what I have learnt. What's wrong about that?

 

[teapot]

Out of interest, what he like having his hind legs touched? As in on the yard, in stable, in field etc. It may well have been a grumpy 'get off me I want to eat' kick, or a tickle from the hay moving, or a snatchy cob who's testing boundaries when your hand's there.

If it's the latter, definitely worth working on him accepting your hand all over his lower leg, both for running your hands down and for picking up (your vet and farrier will appreciate it in the long run). There is nothing worse than a horse that raises a threatening leg when you're feeling for lumps and bumps. If he is funny about you moving hay from around his, what's he going to be like if it came to putting boots on or bandaging?

 

[Goldenstar]

Can you please cut-and-paste the part of my post where I say the OP has done something wrong?

I have merely repeated what my friend, the WHW inspector, had told me about horses kicking and biting in the hope that others might learn what I have learnt. What's wrong about that?

Did I say you were wrong ?

 

[EventingMum]

I haven't read through all the replies but I do find many cobs tend to be more food orientated than other horses though obviously there are exceptions. In your case I would remove the hay prior to bringing him into the stable and if need be give him a small haynet. If the yard owner doesn't want hay making a mess outside his stable go to a builders merchant and buy a half tonne sack - the type gravel is delivered in - and put the night time hay in it so you can take it out of the stable without making a mess. He may have been startled with the hay moving around his legs but better play it safe while you are getting to know him.

 

[lilly1]

I don't think its too much to ask of a horse to show manners when tied up. Kicking is unacceptable regardless of what food is in the stable. While you get to grips with him keep the food out of sight.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Whilst I agree with others that kicking is always unacceptable and I got cross with my made recently when she warned me to get off her foot when she had an abscess brewing and she didn't want me to touch it with the hoof pick, I do think that we should always set them up to succeed.
OP, I was lucky the first time I went to catch our first horse. He didn't want to be caught, he was quite happy eating grass, thank you very much. He bunny-hopped at me, as I approached him from behind, I jumped back and happened to catch his rear with the rope. He then stood and allowed me to catch him. Of course, I should have known better than to approach him as I did. In my defence, he was very awkwardly placed by some bushes. Anyway, I learned from that episode and have now been keeping horses for 40 yrs without being kicked, you will be fine.
Remember that you need to set yourself and your horse up to succeed. Horses are motivated, in the main, by food, so use that to get what you want. My horses are trained to stand with their heads in the haybar whilst I do whatever I need to do with them and to move over, as required. They take their heads out of the hay on request, for brushing/bridling etc. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect your horse to be able to do 2 things at once. I certainly wouldn't want to ride without offering the horse something to eat, no-one wants to risk ulcers, surely.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I don't agree with the 'he could see hay, do you blame him' type thought. My horse has 22 hours a day to eat his fill, and when I want to muck him out he will stand at the back of the stable where I have placed him, untied, at the opposite end to his haynet and will wait there still until I have mucked out, swept etc. It's good manners I think.

 

[unicornystar]

there is nothing in the grass at the moment so he probably is very hungry or at least feeling hungry!

I would handle him well away from any food, why allow a problem if it can be avoided. He sounds food possessive and no he shouldn't kick but sometimes hunger takes over lol

That would be like expecting my 16.3hh who has been out in the pouring rain all day, eye his feed bucket up in a corner full of nosh!! he would tie up but boy would he fidget, remove the problem rather than try and modify a natural instinct!

 

[huskydamage]

I have been kicked once by my horse (right in the chest!) because I blatently ignored her warnings. It takes a while to get to know a new horse and tell when its peed off etc I would exercise a bit more caution going around the back legs until you get to know him more and as others have already said,move the food. Kicking is naughty but it is something any horse can do so don't set yourself up to fail. Give yourself a clear workspace.

 

[Mince Pie]

I wonder if you spooked him when you went to move the hay from his foot. IMO there's a big difference between being a bit bargy and being aggressive, OP's horse sounds like the former.