advice please. what would you do? sad news

M

monsterwillow

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2011
Messages
153
Visit site
hi. sorry if this is a long post but in a bit of a dilema and unsure what to do for the best.


at the end of september/beginning of october last year, mare had been lame on off hind for around 10 weeks with a hoof abscess. vet/farrier out and abscess burst and she appeared sound. vet commented on muscle wastage over hind quarters at that side and said work her. rode a little but she was uncomfy and in foal so didnt want to do too much. spoke to vet and he said turn her out.

up until about 4 weeks ago she has been fine then noticed her struggling to walk a bit and leg seemed odd. got physio out 1st thinking muscle wastage was causing stifle problems but this wasnt the case.

had vet back out on tuesday and it is actually the muscle wastage that causing her to not be able to use that leg properly. she is weight bearing etc. and not in pain but sometimes seems like she cant get that leg in position to use it.

anyway, vet has spoken to specialist and is pretty sure that the nerves supplying the muscle are damaged and muscle is dead. seems sure that the damage is irreversible.

horrible news :( the thing is she is in foal and has 9 weeks to go. mare is happy in herself, eating, drinking etc so we decided we would try and get her to foaling. but yesterday she slipped in the stable and panicked was horrible to watch. she was pretty distressed and lying flat out. i actually called the vet and asked him to come and put her to sleep.

vet was on his way and she got up by herself and started eating straight away. vet says see how she goes there isnt anything he can do and shes not in pain so carry on. it would be safer to get her out in the field but now shes scared to come out of the stable in case she slips again.

what should i do? keep her in until foaling? then she might slip and kill the foal, or take the stables apart and try and get her out?

whether she makes it to foaling or not im going to lose her :( at least if she does foal i will have a part of her.

thanks for reading x
 
I'm sorry to hear of your news :(

I've no experience with foaling but my concerns would be is she strong enough to foal without causing damage to herself (or the foal)? And what will happen once she's foaled? Will you try and keep her going till weaning or are you planning to hand rear/ find a foster mare?

I'm not much help though sorry, might be worth posting in breeding as that's were the experienced folk hang out!
 
Yep, that's put a lump in my throat alright!!

Bless her, how terribly sad, and I wish you all the best of luck with getting the foal here safely, and I hope things don't end up too horrific for her.

Probably a stupid suggestion, but have you got any matting that you could put down do stop her slipping and make her feel safer to try and get her out of the box? Might take a bit of time to get her started on her way, but with a bit of coaxing and repetition she might do it; each time she takes a step forward, give her forehead a rub and all that stuff, and then when she feels stable on her feet, she might feel reassured to keep going.
 
I am so so sorry for what you (and your mare) are going through.:( Honestly don't know what I would do although I understand you wanting to get her to foaling. The "one day too early v one hour too late" becomes harder to follow when there are 2 lives at stake. Think I'd go down the careful stable demolition followed by the closest monitoring you can manage (which I'm sure you will be doing anyway). How do you feel about rearing an orphan?

Once again, my thoughts are with you:(
 
Sorry for this worrying codition with your mare.
I would personally get an excellent physiotherapist out. My WB had muscle wastage from where he had used himself differently due to ligament damage around his sacrum.

I had an osteopath (she was a holistic vet too) manipulate his sacrum (she did this twice). Then I had a physio use a nerve stimulator on him to reawaken his dormant nerves. She did this over 3 or 4 sessions and it worked really well. Then she used a Tens machine to exercise the wasted muscles.

My horse had damaged his ligaments probably 3 or 4 years before he was diagnosed, so I would not be giving up yet in your case as something may well be able to be done to help your mare. Good luck OP and please update.

Whereabouts are you? I can recommend my physio - she is Essex based.
 
Last edited:
Do you have acess to a huge stable or shed if so I would be tempted to deep litter on really deep straw and try that way .
It's a very sad situation to be in .
I would keep in close touch with the vet and prepare my self to be ready to PTS at any time.
 
Hi - don't really have advice but didn't want to read and run.

If the vet thinks she will be ok out I would try to get her out. This would probably be better for her and if she did go down again at least she wouldn't get stuck and panic.

It must be a really horrible situation and I hope that things go ok for you
 
Again - sorry no advise, just keeping fingers crossed that you can get through the next few weeks at least. x My gut tells me you need to get her out of stable - dismantle or whatever........:(
 
thanks everyone for the replies so far. i have no problems trying to raise an orphan foal i will do whatever i can. the thing is when shes up and about shes ok. walks really odd but doesnt fall over or anything. she was out in the field last week and had a roll and got up ok. probably because she can get a grip on the grass.

although i trust my vet i cant see how the specialist can say irreversible damage without any tests but maybe i just dont want to believe it :(

if i can get her out she would manage to rear the foal quite safely i believe but obviously wouldnt be able to run about after it. but if she stays in and manages to foal it really would be a case of hand rearing as she could easily slip and land on the baby.

the condition itself wont actually cause a problem with foaling.

if she was in pain i wouldnt even be thinking about getting her to foaling. but as shes not i feel i have to try.

going to give the physio a shout anyway. might not do any good but cant do any harm so got to be worth a try x
 
Id get her out in the field ASAP and call the foaling bank as sounds like you might have an orphaned foal coming.
Equally she might surprise you and being out might sort it!
 
monsterwillow said:
going to give the physio a shout anyway. might not do any good but cant do any harm so got to be worth a try x
Click to expand...

I would say it is definately worth the cost of a good physio to visit. Mine took muscle measurements on both sides so she could tell exactly which muscles had been idle. The nerve stimulation stuff was amazing to watch. You could see the dormant nerves were not responding at all at first and then after a few minutes there would be a flicker on the skin as they awakened.
I also am astonished a vet can be so definate without tests. I don't know your mare's age, but if she is older and maybe already has some changes going on then by not using her leg fully for a time she could easily cease up and lose muscle. I don't know why this would be irreversible though.

Sending you good vibes for your mare xx
 
YasandCrystal said:
Sorry for this worrying codition with your mare.
I would personally get an excellent physiotherapist out. My WB had muscle wastage from where he had used himself differently due to ligament damage around his sacrum.

I had an osteopath (she was a holistic vet too) manipulate his sacrum (she did this twice). Then I had a physio use a nerve stimulator on him to reawaken his dormant nerves. She did this over 3 or 4 sessions and it worked really well. Then she used a Tens machine to exercise the wasted muscles.

My horse had damaged his ligaments probably 3 or 4 years before he was diagnosed, so I would not be giving up yet in your case as something may well be able to be done to help your mare. Good luck OP and please update.

Whereabouts are you? I can recommend my physio - she is Essex based.
Click to expand...

im in scotland. do have an excellent physio up here in catriona goulding. she is willing to come and try all she can.

funny thing is about 4/5 weeks ago mare was fine. obvious muscle wastage but using the leg pretty normal and even jumped back into the field (didnt fall or anything but maybe hurt hersel more) i dont suppose i will ever know what caused it but will definitely give intense physio a try x
 
3Beasties said:
What's the difficulty with getting her out of the stable?
Click to expand...

she slipped coming back into the stable yesterday, was pretty horrific and she now wont even come near the door! also its a bit of a tight turn out the main door. thats why was thinking of taking stables apart
 
I would dig a bit deeper into the problem, even if it means a second opinion. A chat to a specialist on the phone would not hit the spot for me.

What a dreadful dilemma. If you look at horses getting up, the front end plays a huge part, they sit up first then, almost walk with the front legs then heave, it can't help that she is so near foaling.

Do you think her leg gets worse when she is laying down or that it is so weak anyway that there is no push there?

I would try to get her in to a safe space outside, as flat and clear of mud as possible and nurse her along until foaling (with the second opinion and some physio as suggested above).

Obviously during foaling there will be increased getting up and down so make sure you are on hand (even though they like to foal when have just popped to the loo). After foaling she and baby will need to be somewhere safe so that she can cope with her limitations.

Best of luck, if you need some advice on how to get a stricken horse up let me know (have had to do it a few times and got the knack now).

Sorry, just read it properly and she slipped. Unfortunate, must have caught her badly. Very frightening for all of you.
 
Some non slip matting might be of help. And also the Physio.

A few years ago had a client with a colored mare that had a nerve issue during the later part of pregnancy. Whatever way the foal positioned itself it caused issues. I can't remember all the details but she had previous foals and only seemed to have an issue with the last one. She foaled and was fine but was never put in foal again.

You do need to do something about the stable entrance. Needs to be wider, less slippy, and not so difficult to turn. Your mare will be getting bigger. Also when foal comes its just a good idea to have an easier entrance way. That you have to sort. She is much better off out than in. Mares need to be out. In at night is fine but unless she can't move she needs to be out.

Best of luck
Terri
 
I'd get her out, even if you do have to take the front off, although I'd see how she is blindfold first.

I'd also get in touch with the foaling bank although I suspect there's nothing they can do until there is an accurate date - ie she goes into labour.

I wish you the very best. The effects of pregnancy can be dreadful. I had to haul myself about by my arms for part of my first pregnancy as my legs would go completely dead if I spent too much time in one position. With any luck once the weight is off her and /or the foal shifts she will become more normal again.

What a very horrid situation to be in.

I'd echo posting this in Breeding.
 
I personally would go for getting her out if you can but if you can't I'd seriously consider putting down for her sake. Yes, it's horrid losing a foal like that (I lost one a fortnight before foaling once, mare unexpectedly died in the field) but better that than watching your mare suffer from pain and fright from not being in full control of her body and reactions plus the added danger of flattening the foal or yourself.

Please be aware that mares foaling very often get down and up many times during labour, not just the once, that's going to put a great deal of strain on her body and heart, far more than a 'normal' foaling would.

It's a hard decision but you must do what is best for your mare; if she wasn't in foal, would you still be carrying on?
 
OMG I am so sorry - awful situation for you and your mare.

Personally, if she is eating and seems content, I would keep her on box rest until the foal is born and thriving. It might be worth contacting the foaling bank (think that is what it is called) and run through your problem with them in advance. They might be able to advise far more than anyone on here.

Part of me would be inclined to try to get her out as if she goes down again she would have less chance of hurting herself. But .. what if she gets into trouble when the foal comes and you cannot get her in!

Sorry, it is a difficult one but only you know how bad she is and whether she would be happy to walk around the field and not likely to get into even more issues like falling down a ditch or getting caught up in a fence??

Can you leave the stable door open with hay outside and rubber matting down and see if she will come out by herself? Or blindfold, turn around and then lead out?
 
Last edited:
Can you lay bedding acrros the doorway and outside?

The foal would almost be viable now. I would try to get her out and so long as she is happy in herself I would see how it goes. I know some mares do get up and down when foaling, but they don't tend to do this once the foal has started to actually come out. We were lucky when the mare here foaled as she just walked around then we saw the feet coming out and she lay down and didn't get up until 15 minutes after the foal was born.
 
monsterwillow said:
she slipped coming back into the stable yesterday, was pretty horrific and she now wont even come near the door! also its a bit of a tight turn out the main door. thats why was thinking of taking stables apart
Click to expand...

Have you tried putting loads of bedding down in the doorway and out onto the yard?

As someone else said it might be worth blindfolding her to get her out.

I would imagine taking the stables down around her will only stress he out :(
 
Personally I'd get her out, can vet help by taking edge off her anxiety?

Then you need emergency plans in place in case mare can't raise foal (which looks very doubtful). You need to contact an experienced stud, find out about taking colostrum off mare in case she can't get back on her feet after foaling, have vet on standby. You say you're willing to raise an orphan, but they can often end up with behavioural issues when hand-raised (ignoring the massive amount of work it involves & horrendous hours). Far better that you find a foster mare, or know of one (or make it known to foaling bank you may be in need of one - at least have their number handy, they can also help you with how to cope with orphan). Have you bottles in ready? Formula? Get experienced help, quickly.
 
What a terrible shame.

My only thought would be is it possible to move her into a big barn for the reminder of her time prior to foaling and have a cctv camera on her so you link it to a laptop and keep an eye on her. Plus have everything you may need on hand if the foal is orphaned.

If the barn was an option you could put a heston or two of straw down to give her some purchase to get up/down and plenty of comfort to lie down.

Facing such serious issues your vet or a second opinion is your best bet and I so hope you get a healthy foal and the mare manages to cope.
 
Suggestion below only really relevant after a second opinion confirms that the mare is definitely not in a position to be saved.

I've no idea of the date for horses but when does the vet think the foal would be viable? As heartless as this may sound could the vet do a caesarain (sp) to deliver the foal then PTS your mare? Human babies survive perfectly well from 29 weeks with specalist care (I know I had one) and from 34/35 weeks without any special care at all so a foal with only 9 days to go may well make it.

It doesn't sound like it would be safe to leave the foal with the mare in any event so a foster mum would be needed (hand reared horses often don't turn out mentally that well). If this was possible you could get in touch with the foaling bank and have a mare on standby at the right time as you'd know when the vet was booked.
 
Caesarians on foals are very rarely successful and the foal only gets the last hormones to make his lungs work properly just about as foaling begins, so you can't induce mares.

Hope it works out for you, OP, what an awful situation.
 
Are you sure she hasnt damaged her tibia ie the muscle wastage usage happens with a pelvic fracture, get vet to scan her pelvis, cos if thats broke then i think you will have a problem with her foaling.
 
I don't know enough to offer useful advice on foaling, but I hope things turn out as well as possible for mare & foal.
 
What an awful situation for you! I own a horse with serious issues re stable doorways and the only thing that stops him panicking/crashing into door casing and striking sparks on the floor is thin rubber matting. Can you borrow some from a trailer or anybody else just to get her out, otherwise I would make a deep bedding trail, as already suggested, and maybe try and keep her head in a bucket of feed to distract/guide her out?
I do hope your physio is a bit more positive about your mare and wish you good luck.
 
RebelRebel said:
I would dig a bit deeper into the problem, even if it means a second opinion. A chat to a specialist on the phone would not hit the spot for me.

What a dreadful dilemma. If you look at horses getting up, the front end plays a huge part, they sit up first then, almost walk with the front legs then heave, it can't help that she is so near foaling.

Do you think her leg gets worse when she is laying down or that it is so weak anyway that there is no push there?

I would try to get her in to a safe space outside, as flat and clear of mud as possible and nurse her along until foaling (with the second opinion and some physio as suggested above).

Obviously during foaling there will be increased getting up and down so make sure you are on hand (even though they like to foal when have just popped to the loo). After foaling she and baby will need to be somewhere safe so that she can cope with her limitations.

Best of luck, if you need some advice on how to get a stricken horse up let me know (have had to do it a few times and got the knack now).

Sorry, just read it properly and she slipped. Unfortunate, must have caught her badly. Very frightening for all of you.
Click to expand...

thank you. its not that she cant get back up, she can. she has adopted her own way of getting up. when physio 1st came she actually wondered if it was something to do with being heavy in foal. vet doesnt think so however he did say it might ease a little once she foals so who knows?

this time was purely because she slipped and then couldnt figure out what to do with that leg but once we had got her into a better position she got herself up no problem x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top