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Clannad48

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OK so I think I know the answer to this but just wanted to see if I am massively overreacting. So we have a 25yr old Welsh mare who we have had for 15 years, she is now for all intents and purposes a field ornament but we will keep her til the end of her days. Now she has had in the past major laminitis issues in the sense that last year in October it was touch or go whether we PTS. Mind you with our vets extreme care and our farrier working with the vet to make her comfortable she is now fine but we need to monitor everything that she eats to keep her going. She is fine when kept on a sugar free/limited diet, regular trimming by the farrier and regular vet care. She is happy, good in herself and when in the mood loves a buck and a f*rt in the school. Apart from the laminitis and the onset of arthritis she is in very good health.

OK so what is the problem you wonder - we are on a lovely yard, the YO is fantastic and most of the liveries understand how to look after a laminitic pony/horse and do not give her any extra food/treats as they understand the consequences. We have told everyone the reasons behind our 'mean behaviour'and they all fully understand our reasons. BUT there is one livery who despite being told NOT to give her apples, treats or extra hay perceives that when she gives our pony apples (not just one but four or five) thinks that she is doing no harm. This morning my daughter caught her giving the pony apples when asked what she thought she was doing replied that it was only 3 apples and when questioned about the other four in her hand said she wasn't doing any harm. To be honest my daughter lost the plot and nearly reduced this livery to tears, but it is not as if this was the first time she had been told not to feed the pony anything.

I want to put a very blunt sign on the stable outlining that the pony could end up being PTS if she is fed treats that she is not allowed but am told this is too blunt and threatening. The YO agrees with me and is going to speak to the livery again, but we can't be there 24/7 to see what she does.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant '-I needed to vent - but I am fed up with people with no knowledge of the damage that feeding sugary treats to a laminitic horse can do - or think that they know better than the vet.

Large G&T and cake to those who made it to the end
 

FfionWinnie

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It’s a mystery to me that these people actually exist!!

The YO needs to explain to them clearly that they do not touch your horse (or indeed anyone else’s!) they do not feed them or do anything at all to them. If they persist they need kicked off the yard. Utterly unbelievable.

I had a horse which couldn’t have sugar and starch and similarly 5 apples could have killed her or at least ended me up with a vet bill. The mind boggles that anyone could be that stupid.
 

doodle

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Mine was on box rest with laminitis. His stable unfortunately was beside a road and j would find grass at his door. I did a polite note on his door. This didn’t work. So I put “please so not feed this horse ANYTHING. He is ill and it WILL kill him”. This worked.
 

Clannad48

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Mine was on box rest with laminitis. His stable unfortunately was beside a road and j would find grass at his door. I did a polite note on his door. This didn’t work. So I put “please so not feed this horse ANYTHING. He is ill and it WILL kill him”. This worked.

I tried the polite note, I tried the polite, friendly conversation, my daughter has been firm but a little blunt, today my daughter was very blunt. I expect the YO will be equally blunt. TBH I just want to have a conversation with the livery in private in the haybarn with a length of 2x4. I am wanting to put a note on the stable stating that giving the pony food she is not allowed will probably result in her being PTS.
 

alainax

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I tried the polite note, I tried the polite, friendly conversation, my daughter has been firm but a little blunt, today my daughter was very blunt. I expect the YO will be equally blunt. TBH I just want to have a conversation with the livery in private in the haybarn with a length of 2x4. I am wanting to put a note on the stable stating that giving the pony food she is not allowed will probably result in her being PTS.

I'd be blunter than pts, in case she doesn't speak the jargon. "Feeding this horse may result in premature death" ( potentially of the person feeding it if you get your 2x4 ;)

In all seriousness though, some people are feeders and the blunt conversation was probably exactly what was needed. Now a blunt note to ensure the point isn't forgotten.
 

YorksG

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Sadly the world is full of these numpties! We had person, who believes that she knows about horses, walking through the field next to our youngsters, who felt that it was acceptable to feed ours store cattle creep feed! The young Appy nearly killed me at bringing in time as a result of that little episode, as she struggles with sugar and grain. We put up signs saying Do Not Feed the animals.
With regard to your notice, who has said that you should not put up a blunt sign? I would put a very blut sign up and tell the woman face to face and insist that the YM tell her that she must leave other peoples horses alone. If it continues after tht, then I would look at moving yards, even though it should be the other party who is given notice imo.
 

ycbm

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No you aren't over reacting. I had the most ridiculous conversation with a woman in a car park on Friday. Husband said they knew nothing about horses. Wife asked if she could give my horse a mint. I said he doesn't like them. .( He doesn't. ) She said I bet he does. I said even if he did I don't want him fed tidbits. Aggressively, she asked me why. I told her that sweets were no good for his teeth and that I didn't want him to learn to mug people. She said, well we feed the horses in a field when we walk. I said the owners would be really cross and that they might hurt other walkers trying to get treats. Oh, they're behind the fence, it's no problem, she said and walked off with a superior sneer on her face. Spare us all from ignorant people!
 

Schollym

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OK so I think I know the answer to this but just wanted to see if I am massively overreacting. So we have a 25yr old Welsh mare who we have had for 15 years, she is now for all intents and purposes a field ornament but we will keep her til the end of her days. Now she has had in the past major laminitis issues in the sense that last year in October it was touch or go whether we PTS. Mind you with our vets extreme care and our farrier working with the vet to make her comfortable she is now fine but we need to monitor everything that she eats to keep her going. She is fine when kept on a sugar free/limited diet, regular trimming by the farrier and regular vet care. She is happy, good in herself and when in the mood loves a buck and a f*rt in the school. Apart from the laminitis and the onset of arthritis she is in very good health.

OK so what is the problem you wonder - we are on a lovely yard, the YO is fantastic and most of the liveries understand how to look after a laminitic pony/horse and do not give her any extra food/treats as they understand the consequences. We have told everyone the reasons behind our 'mean behaviour'and they all fully understand our reasons. BUT there is one livery who despite being told NOT to give her apples, treats or extra hay perceives that when she gives our pony apples (not just one but four or five) thinks that she is doing no harm. This morning my daughter caught her giving the pony apples when asked what she thought she was doing replied that it was only 3 apples and when questioned about the other four in her hand said she wasn't doing any harm. To be honest my daughter lost the plot and nearly reduced this livery to tears, but it is not as if this was the first time she had been told not to feed the pony anything.

I want to put a very blunt sign on the stable outlining that the pony could end up being PTS if she is fed treats that she is not allowed but am told this is too blunt and threatening. The YO agrees with me and is going to speak to the livery again, but we can't be there 24/7 to see what she does.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant '-I needed to vent - but I am fed up with people with no knowledge of the damage that feeding sugary treats to a laminitic horse can do - or think that they know better than the vet.

Large G&T and cake to those who made it to the end

We have a laminated sign on our horses stable in red, as we have a horse that suffers badly with allergies. I also had a similar problem with a welsh pony. Have you had her checked for cushings, we managed everything carefully and see still had laminitis episodes,she would go pottery for no obvious reason. Since she is on prascend she had a new lease of life and goes to the field like she is a two year old ( she is actually 37) . Some horses get wise to being given the medication and people don't persist. In a syringe in custard recommended by a vet and we haven't looked back!
 

SEL

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I had to tell a dad and his small daughter yesterday not to feed my horses carrots (they had an entire bag with them). Apart from the fact one is on a very, very tight diet there is also the small matter of them getting bitten or kicked. Apparently "they've always fed the horses in that field". Maybe I should have let them carry on and have my mare sort them out with her teeth & back legs....

I got quite rude at my last yard and had a big sign saying DO NOT FEED ANYTHING EVER. I could tell when it was being ignored as my horses would start checking my pockets. I've never kept treats in pockets.
 

Shay

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Under the circumstances perhaps your YO would consent to you putting up a sign not to feed? Some people are utterly beyond belief - but if you have a sign up then other liveries might feel more comfortable challenging this behaviour? We can't all be with our horses 24/7. We do rely on livery colleagues to be responsible too.
 

claret09

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you have my sympathy
OK so I think I know the answer to this but just wanted to see if I am massively overreacting. So we have a 25yr old Welsh mare who we have had for 15 years, she is now for all intents and purposes a field ornament but we will keep her til the end of her days. Now she has had in the past major laminitis issues in the sense that last year in October it was touch or go whether we PTS. Mind you with our vets extreme care and our farrier working with the vet to make her comfortable she is now fine but we need to monitor everything that she eats to keep her going. She is fine when kept on a sugar free/limited diet, regular trimming by the farrier and regular vet care. She is happy, good in herself and when in the mood loves a buck and a f*rt in the school. Apart from the laminitis and the onset of arthritis she is in very good health.

OK so what is the problem you wonder - we are on a lovely yard, the YO is fantastic and most of the liveries understand how to look after a laminitic pony/horse and do not give her any extra food/treats as they understand the consequences. We have told everyone the reasons behind our 'mean behaviour'and they all fully understand our reasons. BUT there is one livery who despite being told NOT to give her apples, treats or extra hay perceives that when she gives our pony apples (not just one but four or five) thinks that she is doing no harm. This morning my daughter caught her giving the pony apples when asked what she thought she was doing replied that it was only 3 apples and when questioned about the other four in her hand said she wasn't doing any harm. To be honest my daughter lost the plot and nearly reduced this livery to tears, but it is not as if this was the first time she had been told not to feed the pony anything.

I want to put a very blunt sign on the stable outlining that the pony could end up being PTS if she is fed treats that she is not allowed but am told this is too blunt and threatening. The YO agrees with me and is going to speak to the livery again, but we can't be there 24/7 to see what she does.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant '-I needed to vent - but I am fed up with people with no knowledge of the damage that feeding sugary treats to a laminitic horse can do - or think that they know better than the vet.

Large G&T and cake to those who made it to the end
 

GirlFriday

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PTS implies you'd do it. How about "Hi I'm [name of horse] and I'm on a strictly controlled diet because of laminitis. If this is added to in anyway my bones may fall down through my feet and I will die in severe pain so please ignore me if I look like I fancy a treat" or similar?
 

OldNag

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I would put a very blunt sign up.

I would also include a note on the sign that if vet treatment is required because the horse has been fed, the person who gave the food will be liable for the bill. Or words to that effect.
 

Clannad48

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Thank you all for your comments - I think the YO (who is the best YO I have ever known in over 45 years of keeping horses at Livery Yards), will be very blunt and give the other livery an ultimatum. It is my daughter who doesn't want my (what she considers) very blunt sign, her rationale is that she has to deal with this person every day and doesn't want to make life there uncomfortable, and there is absolutely no way we will move from there - but she does understand the need for the sign, just not one quite as blunt as I would like. I think we will have to meet somewhere in the middle.

Why oh why do people feel they have the right to feed other people's ponies/horses. I feel so sorry for those of you who have horses within the public's grasp - we are very lucky in being isolated from roads or rights of way.
 

pansymouse

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It's very hard to deal with the determinedly stupid and sometimes however much you'd like to avoid it an eye wateringly blunt conversation backed up with a similarly forthright notice is the only option.

I would put up a notice saying something like "[pony's name] is on a vet prescribed diet and must not have any treats however nicely he/she asks. No exceptions; his/her life depends on your co-operation"
 

DaisyMoo

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OK so I think I know the answer to this but just wanted to see if I am massively overreacting. So we have a 25yr old Welsh mare who we have had for 15 years, she is now for all intents and purposes a field ornament but we will keep her til the end of her days. Now she has had in the past major laminitis issues in the sense that last year in October it was touch or go whether we PTS. Mind you with our vets extreme care and our farrier working with the vet to make her comfortable she is now fine but we need to monitor everything that she eats to keep her going. She is fine when kept on a sugar free/limited diet, regular trimming by the farrier and regular vet care. She is happy, good in herself and when in the mood loves a buck and a f*rt in the school. Apart from the laminitis and the onset of arthritis she is in very good health.

OK so what is the problem you wonder - we are on a lovely yard, the YO is fantastic and most of the liveries understand how to look after a laminitic pony/horse and do not give her any extra food/treats as they understand the consequences. We have told everyone the reasons behind our 'mean behaviour'and they all fully understand our reasons. BUT there is one livery who despite being told NOT to give her apples, treats or extra hay perceives that when she gives our pony apples (not just one but four or five) thinks that she is doing no harm. This morning my daughter caught her giving the pony apples when asked what she thought she was doing replied that it was only 3 apples and when questioned about the other four in her hand said she wasn't doing any harm. To be honest my daughter lost the plot and nearly reduced this livery to tears, but it is not as if this was the first time she had been told not to feed the pony anything.

I want to put a very blunt sign on the stable outlining that the pony could end up being PTS if she is fed treats that she is not allowed but am told this is too blunt and threatening. The YO agrees with me and is going to speak to the livery again, but we can't be there 24/7 to see what she does.

Sorry it's a bit of a rant '-I needed to vent - but I am fed up with people with no knowledge of the damage that feeding sugary treats to a laminitic horse can do - or think that they know better than the vet.

Large G&T and cake to those who made it to the end

I used to keep the big beastie at a riding school. One barn for liveries and one for riding school ponies. After their lessons the parents would being their kids in to feed the horses apples and carrots. Most liveriescwere fine but mine has ems/ir which has caused laminitis so like yours she's on a very restricted diet. I ended up writing on the door in a chalk pen DO NOT FEED THIS HORSE. SHE IS UNDER VET CARE AND ON RESTRICTED DIET DUE TO SEVERE ILLNESS. THE SUGAR IN THE TREATS YOU HAVE IN YOUR HAND WILL KILL HER. it seemed to work as parents started asking about her illness and freaked out when I told then the pedal bone would come through her foot and she'd die in agony. A little dramatic I know but they slowly stopped coming in until no one from riding school cane in livery barn at all. You'd probably find now that this livery will stay well away but so many horse owners dont understand the severity of lami and even ones whose horse has suffered don't take it seriously :( as well as a do not feed this horse notice can you put up a fact sheet with gory pics of the horrors of laminitis to make her and others think about the cruelty they could be inflicting in your horse? I hope you get sorted
 

Wimbles

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You can't educate pork............

We have similar problems at the field with my donkeys and sheep and lost a couple of lambs last year due to the allotment people feeding them cabbages and spring greens. You have my sympathy as it's an ongoing battle. We went with an extremely blunt sign and it worked with the greens but there is often still carrot evidence and the donkey is pretty round!
 

Adonissaan

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That's unreal - as a fellow horsey person she should know better.

I'm angry for you! I only ever give horses a small treat if I know the owner and know it's allowed.
 

Casey76

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You're not alone.

I have signs up on both Blitz and Tartines doors. I had to have a very blunt conversation with one of the liverys' partners, who gives carrots, apples and polos to anything standing still.
 

LadySam

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I don't understand why your daughter is against the blunt notice. I know you've explained it, but from what you've said about the YO and other liveries, the sign would be pretty much only for the stupid girl who keeps feeding your horse - and after your daughter's very blunt conversation with her and the one the YO is likely to have with her, I don't see how a sign could make life anymore awkward with this person.

Anyway, stuff awkward. Your horse's life is at stake. A blunt sign would make it easier for everyone else to challenge this girl about feeding when you're not there, if someone else catches her at it.
 

honetpot

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The pony is your property, she shouldn't be touching your property and has been caught more than once. I would send her a solicitors letter telling her you will sue for criminal damage if the pony becomes ill.
No one should be touching any bodies animals without their permission.
 

JillA

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Slightly at a tangent, have you had her tested for Cushings? At her age and with October being at the end of the seasonal rise for me it would be the first thing that comes to mind. And it can be well controlled with Prascend so that sugar levels, although important, aren't the be-all and end-all.
As for the person who insists on giving apples, rather than backing her into a corner so she comes out fighting, can you not take her on one side and educate her? Tell her she might be signing the pony's death warrant (TBH though, the sugar content in apples as a % of her overall diet isn't a huge amount if you are keeping it down elsewhere) and maybe say that if she really wants to feed treats she could do so but with a less sugary alternative such as a (very expensive) herbal treat?
 

Smogul

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OK so what is the problem you wonder - we are on a lovely yard, the YO is fantastic and most of the liveries understand how to look after a laminitic pony/horse and do not give her any extra food/treats as they understand the consequences. We have told everyone the reasons behind our 'mean behaviour'and they all fully understand our reasons. BUT there is one livery who despite being told NOT to give her apples, treats or extra hay perceives that when she gives our pony apples (not just one but four or five) thinks that she is doing no harm.

I am surprised YO hasn't done something. One of the strictest rules on our yard is you do not feed, water or handle any other livery's horse without their written permission. Failure to observe this has led to people being put off the yard
 

windand rain

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My biggest concern when I let my pony go to a livery yard was just this not because of laminitis but she chokes at the drop of a hat and even a small handful of nuts would choke her even treats that are dry and that shape are a huge problem so she has a sign on her door saying she must not be fed treats of any kind as they will choke her
 

poiuytrewq

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I'd be really annoyed at my non laminitic horses being fed 4/5 apples a day by someone else! If they fed my current laminitic anything I think I'd kill them!!
Speak to the y/o
 

MagicMelon

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I'd have gone nuts with this person too. I think I would go and speak to her specifically and tell her what damage she's doing and that it is your pony and she has absolutely no right to feed anything to her. I would also make up a very strict sign for the ponies stable/field with whatever wording the YO agrees is acceptable. Maybe even print off something from online which states laminitic ponies should get strict feed, no apples etc. and give that directly to her.

I'm so glad I keep my horses at home, I just cant believe some people think its acceptable to feed anyone elses horse let alone one with known health issues.
 

Cloball

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also make sure said sign is laminated, friend had a pony on a restricted diet and put up a nice cardboard sign ... found bits of the sign the next day demolished by the pony!

In my experience people struggle to understand why they shouldn't eat certain things themselves no matter how nicely you explain let alone other peoples animals :(
 

Clannad48

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Ok so quick update,

JillA and SchollyM - the pony is tested for Cushings every 6 months and is free from it (at the moment - all fingers and toes crossed) She is very well and has the usual welshie mare attitude :) :).

Lady Sam - my daughter considered the notice as being threatening. Admittedly I wrote it in an absolute furious temper.

Apart from keeping a very strict eye on her feed and checking her feet twice daily we have managed to keep the laminitis at bay this year so far - with the frosts coming in we will be very vigilant (especially as we nearly lost her this time last year). We have plenty of experience with this mare and laminitis. Our vet and farrier are brilliant and will both come out immediately if there are any sudden changes.

With regards to the notice - we will put up a friendly notice outlining the repercussions of anyone other than us and the YO giving the pony anything to eat. The YO has had 'words' and made it very plain that the livery should not give anyone else's horses anything to eat at all without the express permission of the horse owner for each occasion. It is only this one livery who we have this problem with. Everyone else is brilliant and if they spot our mare being 'footy' will let us or the YO know.

I am well aware that our mare can put on the "I haven't been fed for a month" look - she has even tried it on with me once when I went to the yard to pick up my daughter who had only just fed her :)

So for now I have put away the length of 2x4 and have laminated several signs, to be placed out of reach of the pony but in full view - one will be in the tack room where the daily notices are put so there will be no excuse for not seeing them - They are very bright and big :)

Thank you everyone for your advice and support it is much appreciated. This is one of the reasons why I love this forum.

Large Gin & tonics with cake all round
 

Sandstone1

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It's amazing the amount of supposedly horsey people that don't realise the danger of laminitis.
People often think you are being cruel by restricting grazing and food.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Has your vet suggested a different test for Cushings? One of ours appeared to be symptomatic, fortunately not laminitic, but 3 consecutive ACTH tests came back 'within normal range', although the levels were rising slightly. We had the TRH test done and that gave a reading of x8 the normal maximum, She is now on Prascend
 
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