Advice re: Vit E dosage

Birker, you have indeed already done lots for this horse, but I am bemused as to why a horse with all his issues has not already had his hind suspensories scanned as part of his various veterinary work ups.

It's a non invasive and relatively cheap procedure to rule suspensory damage in or out.

ETA I'm not suggesting that you've declined to get them scanned, but my vet would just tell me that we need to do x,y,z and I go along with it. She did scan my broken and retired horse's hind suspensories which showed some damage but not a huge amount. Horse has also had SI, hocks and front coffins medicated, plus a scope for foregut ulcers (none seen) so not that dissimilar a picture to Lari. She's a pasture ornament now.
 
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I respect all that you've done for this horse, Birker.

I do agree that if suspensory issues are highly suspected, you should scan. I can also understand being at the end of your rope though.

It is a very valid point that even if he does have ulcers and you treat them, it's sort of a money wasted if the suspensory issue is still there and it's extremely likely that the ulcers will be hard to treat/will soon return. You also shouldn't be working a horse with suspensory issues, generally.

On the one hand you're already so far in you might as well scan too. On the other hand I understand that you've done a lot and this must be overwhelming.

For me, I'd do it. Even I had to carry a credit card balance for a bit. I'd have to know and as others have said, the ulcer treatment (if needed/done) will be a bit wasted if the suspensory issue is there/still there. I'd do the scope and scan then call it a day. The results of the scan would help me determine my next steps.

Of course this is your horse and your decision, ultimately.
 
Birker2020 said:
Because I have to pay £250 excess every time I start a new claim and i have no money left., I have potentially four claims at the moment.
You have no idea about what I have already done for this horse in terms of investigation and the massive amount of money spent as you haven't been following so I suggest you lower your tone and stop being so accusory.
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This is a public forum. Everyone is able to read what you post publicly. This is not a secret club.

Something as serious as suspensories are being ignored while you continue to pay for your horse to be ridden after having potential pain and lameness pointed out. Incomprehensible.

The scans will more than likely cost less than the insurance excess. Your complete reluctance to investigate something so straightforward to the extent that you have not even called the vet for a price is beyond strange. There is a duty of care when taking ownership of any animal.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I respect all that you've done for this horse, Birker.

I do agree that if suspensory issues are highly suspected, you should scan. I can also understand being at the end of your rope though.

It is a very valid point that even if he does have ulcers and you treat them, it's sort of a money wasted if the suspensory issue is still there and it's extremely likely that the ulcers will be hard to treat/will soon return. You also shouldn't be working a horse with suspensory issues, generally.

On the one hand you're already so far in you might as well scan too. On the other hand I understand that you've done a lot and this must be overwhelming.

For me, I'd do it. Even I had to carry a credit card balance for a bit. I'd have to know and as others have said, the ulcer treatment (if needed/done) will be a bit wasted if the suspensory issue is there/still there. I'd do the scope and scan then call it a day. The results of the scan would help me determine my next steps.

Of course this is your horse and your decision, ultimately.
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Thank you, this reply was said with genuine concern, empathy and understanding and I really appreciate that.

We are away in a few weeks on a holiday to the IOW which we are both desperate for, when we come back and I can start saving money again for another excess, I will look at getting him scanned. I suspect they will find ulcers today but how bad they are is anyone's guess.

I've had conflicting advice on the suspensory operation, someone said 6 months box rest, someone else said 6 weeks. I've not spoken in depth with the vet or anyone about it as I really don't want to contemplate it. The impression I had from the vet was that the offer to operate was there if I wanted it, he didn't seem to think it was a deal breaker and then last night speaking to one of the vets with a friend that had dropped come with me to drop Lari off for scoping she mentioned the possibility of an op and the vet said given everything that is wrong with him there wouldn't be much point, but I didn't ask why she felt that (as I wasn't contemplating it anyway).

Judging by the way he tears about the field like a looney which I suspect has caused this current 'crookiness' as I was there and saw him, (which I wrote about on one of the posts recently), I think the benefits of any operation will be outweighed by his behaviour whilst turned out but I must admit I don't know enough about it to make that assumption.

I have until the 13th October at which point my insurance cover is up so anything I need to do I need to do relatively soon.

The whole thing has been a total nightmare, the issues with my Mum contribute to a very stressful life at the moment and Lari is literally one phone call away from me giving up on him. I keep saying I will try X and Y and Z but eventually there has to be an end to it for both him and myself.
 
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NR88 said:
Something as serious as suspensories are being ignored while you continue to pay for your horse to be ridden after having potential pain and lameness pointed out. Incomprehensible.

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It wasn't because he was having 'potential pain and lameness' pointed out- like I say, if you had been following my posts instead of jumping on me about this you would know. It was a 'cover all bases' exercise more than a 'this horse needs this operation'. At this point when the op was suggested it was just on the basis that one of his fetlocks was puffy and he was lame on his off hind which was attributed to his SI being sore. Not his suspensories. The suspensories were suggested as a possibility not as a definite.

When he last visited the vet the day he was having his KS medicated the vet said "if I was vetting this horse today, based on what I see on the lunge, trot up and flexion tests I would pass him" He's not exactly suffering.

And I know you haven't been following my posts as given your tone and accussory manner I'm damn sure you would have 'contributed' before now.
 
Birker2020 said:
Thank you, this reply was said with genuine concern, empathy and understanding and I really appreciate that.

We are away in a few weeks on a holiday to the IOW which we are both desperate for, when we come back and I can start saving money again for another excess, I will look at getting him scanned. I suspect they will find ulcers today but how bad they are is anyone's guess.

I've had conflicting advice on the suspensory operation, someone said 6 months box rest, someone else said 6 weeks. I've not spoken in depth with the vet or anyone about it as I really don't want to contemplate it. The impression I had from the vet was that the offer to operate was there if I wanted it, he didn't seem to think it was a deal breaker and then last night speaking to one of the vets with a friend that had dropped Lari off for scoping she mentioned the possibility of an op and the vet said given everything that is wrong with him there wouldn't be much point, but I didn't ask why she felt that (as I wasn't contemplating it anyway).

Judging by the way he tears about the field like a looney which I suspect has caused this current 'crookiness' as I was there and saw him, (which I wrote about on one of the posts recently), I think the benefits of any operation will be outweighed by his behaviour whilst turned out but I must admit I don't know enough about it to make that assumption.

I have until the 13th October at which point my insurance cover is up so anything I need to do I need to do relatively soon.

The whole thing has been a total nightmare, the issues with my Mum contribute to a very stressful life at the moment and Lari is literally one phone call away from me giving up on him. I keep saying I will try X and Y and Z but eventually there has to be an end to it for both him and myself.
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Why are you talking about operations and treatment? You need to scan first to establish if there is an issue before you even think about that. Lots of PSD sufferers look sound, but you have a horse who is "down", which if that is true means there's a serious issue, and yet hes schooling on a surface.

As someone said the money for schooling would pay for the scans several times over and once you know you can then make a decision.
 
ycbm said:
B please don't spend money on treating for ulcers without knowing if the suspensories are damaged, they will only come back.
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If he (or any horse) has ulcers, they need treating regardless of whether the cause of them has still to be identified. How could anyone leave a horse in discomfort on the basis that they are saving money whilst diagnosing other things?

And sorting out the diet, which the OP still hasn't done because, for example, she is still feeding the molassed feed she bought in error instead of binning it, is quite a good initial step if you suspect gut issues, even without scoping or treating with drugs.

Birker you are not the first forum user to ignore advice you don't like, and I'm afraid that if you don't want people who genuinely care about your horse's welfare to offer it, you either need to put us on a very long UI list or find a vet/a person you trust to ask for advice, or maybe be a bit more receptive to what people are saying.
 
Generally if my horse won't eat something or can no longer eat something, someone from the yard will buy it from me or I'll give it away. So it's not even that you have to "bin" food that you don't need.
 
Rowreach said:
And sorting out the diet, which the OP still hasn't done because, for example, she is still feeding the molassed feed she bought in error instead of binning it, is quite a good initial step if you suspect gut issues, even without scoping or treating with drugs.

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I'm buying a need bag of feed today, I only got the vitamin E delivered to Mums on Tuesday, it took that long and I picked it up yesterday. So I haven't started the diet yet.
 
Right I'm out of this post now.

Its my horse and my decision what I do with him. I have taken your advice on board and will speak to my vet later when he rings me with the results of the scoping.

Thank you for your comments but I am very tired and very down and I don't want to discuss further.
 
Rowreach said:
I How could anyone leave a horse in discomfort on the basis that they are saving money whilst diagnosing other things?
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That is very unfair and unwarranted. The vet had told me to get him back into full work and I am just following what the vet has said. He is not in discomfort, he's had everything thrown at him. The vet has said to get him back into work and see how he goes and he is going to lunge him later if he's not already done so to see how he is.
 
Birker2020 said:
When he last visited the vet the day he was having his KS medicated the vet said "if I was vetting this horse today, based on what I see on the lunge, trot up and flexion tests I would pass him" He's not exactly suffering.
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I feel so sad to read this.
Horses can look sound and pass vettings every day that are suffering in silence. When will people learn, they are stoic, they are extremely good at hiding pain.
If there's a chance he's got suspensory problems, I'd either retire or wait till you can afford to get them scanned. Sorry I couldn't spend my money on a pro pushing him through it.
All of his 'issues' are obviously linked and you need to find the primary cause. If you're done or out of money retire him. To me it sounds like you've not found where all these things stem from.
 
I had a boy that had treatment in york for suspensory ligament damage and went onto be my heart for years as a happy hacker.
and more recently my friend has had her horse injected, she had two visits and a few xrays and the horse is now sound. So please do not despair and stop responding to trolls that get enjoyment out of eating their bran flakes riling folk up!
There is a lot of good advice above ? and a lot of good knowledgeable people on here that are genuine and will happily offer help and advice ?
 
Rowreach said:
I've only just seen this reply. You are still feeding molassed feed as at today's date.
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Birker, it is quite obvious that all of Lari's problems stem from your feeding of Molassed Happy hooves and pony nut. Stop using them and all will be resolved! Not.

this link gives some info from a nutritionalist on molasses.
https://m.facebook.com/ClareMacLeod...2546953382/2692143000826313/?type=3&source=57

edit, I would have put a smiley in this post but they don't appear to work.
 
Barton Bounty said:
How come ? ?
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Only because I don't really know how to do anything else on the keyboard.

Its like people come along and go "did you know if you do CNTRL and F5 you can do this, that and the other?". And I am left speechless with my ineptitude and wonder how I got to be 52 without having a clue about it. ;)
 
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Birker2020 said:
Only because I don't really know how to do anything else on the keyboard.

Its like people come along and go "did you know if you do CNTRL and F5 you can do this, that and the other?". And I am left speechless with my ineptitude and wonder how I got to be 52 without having a clue about it. ;)
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older than you and even more inept. However we are now working again.:);):(:mad::confused::cool::p:D:eek::oops::rolleyes:o_O

thanks Red and BB :D
 
Rowreach said:
If he (or any horse) has ulcers, they need treating regardless of whether the cause of them has still to be identified.
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No they don't. The horse could be PTS as an economic disaster zone, with so much wrong with him (all four legs and neck and SI so far, I think). He could be retired to the field and watched carefully for signs of discomfort while seeing if he can be happy retired without further medical intervention.

I admire Birker for the effort and money she has put in to resolving this horse's issues. I don't agree with her vet with some of the guidance that has been given, but I can't fault Birker's response to his advice. And I feel for her how badly she was done to by the seller and the vetting vet when she bought him. This whole thing has been a nonstop nightmare for her that I wouldn't wish on an enemy.
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ycbm said:
No they don't. The horse could be PTS as an economic disaster zone, with so much wrong with him (all four legs and neck and SI so far, I think). He could be retired to the field and watched carefully for signs of discomfort while seeing if he can be happy retired without further medical intervention.

I admire Birker for the effort and money she has put in to resolving this horse's issues. I don't agree with her vet with some of the guidance that has been given, but I can't fault Birker's response to his advice. And I feel for her how badly she was done to by the seller and the vetting vet when she bought him. This whole thing has been a nonstop nightmare for her that I wouldn't wish on an enemy.
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thank you.
If he is retired he will be watched carefully.
 
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