AES stallion gradings-can anyone give me the low down please.

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I have just literally acquired a 2yo Charmeur x Kennedy colt

As well as a lovely elastic mover he is a very sweet,calm, not at all colty person (I am aware that may all change in spring lol)

I have no great breeding aspirations but if he has a trainable mind and does the business under saddle he can keep his nuts and I already have mare owners enquiring (sound, trainable, talented mares i hasten to add....). We also have great facilities where he can be a horse

If he is ready next year it would be nice to get him graded and i feel the AES is the way to go but I am having a mega hard time getting clear and concise info on what's required and how much it all costs.

Any info appreciated and clearly if he turns out to be a 3 legged hooligan he will be gelded!!!!!!!!!!

 

[justabob]

Google Crackenthorpe Stud and give them a phone call. They stand 4 or 5 stallions and are very helpful, they will be able to answer all your questions.

 

[Lgd]

If you grade with AES at 3yo he will have to loose jump.
If think if you wait and present him older as a ridden dressage horse he only does the flat performance, not very clear on the AES site when I checked but that was certainly the case previously.

Because of the expense my boy won't be going unless he proves himself under saddle in competition first. He was also not mature enough as a 3yo and I refuse to hot house them just to do a grading when I have no idea if he will do the job under saddle.

Costs £240 for the grading, plus a 5 stage vetting. Then £165+Vat annually

Other options are WBS, SHB-GB, ZfDP

Fly was more of a hooligan this summer than at 3yo. We had a few discussions about that and he has been fine since then! He is away at the moment to finish his backing and be ridden away.

 

[Rollin]

Do we know WHO is running AES now. I note from minutes of WFSHB meeting on their website, that as of last year it was still not clear.

No minutes from this year.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

thanks LGD that makes total sense and i think the same as you that as a 4yo dressage horse he would only have to do flat ridden so i may well wait and do it as a 4yo

Rollin-can you expand a bit please, very new to all this

 

[Rollin]

thanks LGD that makes total sense and i think the same as you that as a 4yo dressage horse he would only have to do flat ridden so i may well wait and do it as a 4yo

Rollin-can you expand a bit please, very new to all this

I have a horse registered with AES which was based in the UK. Then we were told there were disagreements between the Directors of the Stud Book, which was now being managed from Holland.

I did not have a foal to register with them last year so don't know what the situation is now. I did notice it was discussed at a WFSHB meeting last year but no minutes from this year.

 

[sywell]

Do we know WHO is running AES now. I note from minutes of WFSHB meeting on their website, that as of last year it was still not clear.
To my knowledge the two dutchmen who own the majority of shares.
The following from the rules of the WBFSH wiil give some studbooks problems.

Be a horse studbook that is a studbook of members and controlled by these members in a
democratic fashion

 

[popsdosh]

Try breeders elite they are very helpful set up by Henk minderman after the AES fell apart somewhat.

 

[Rollin]

Try breeders elite they are very helpful set up by Henk minderman after the AES fell apart somewhat.

Have Breeders Elite been accepted by WFSHB? I know they have applied. It does depend on what you want to do with your horse. I know that many stud books will not accept progeny of CB stallions because CBHS is not a member of WFSHB.

 

[Springs]

You will need to allow a budget of around £1k and ideally get a name to present!

 

[sarahhelen1977]

I presented Adonnis with AES as a 3 year old myself - did all my own prep, and handling. He was shown loose, didn't do any more than a little bit of lunging, lots of in hand work and a bit of loose jumping beforehand . Maybe I was lucky that he licensed without a 'name' on the end of the lead rein, and it didn't cost me any more than the entry and the vetting, but it goes to show that it is possible! It may be a little out of date now, but there is a video of his grading at Addington on YouTube - search Adonnis Stallion Gribaldi - that should wheedle out the dodgy videos!!

 

[Springs]

Very lucky I should think! I have a few experiences of preparing and presenting as well as watching gradings, some times think its just a lottery.

 

[sarahhelen1977]

Lol! Or maybe they just liked him?!!

 

[Rollin]

I think it is great when breeders do their own preparation and presentation with good results. Well done Sarah.

I was warned before one grading that you need to know what the judges are looking for. I think they should be looking at conformation, athleticism and temperament. Those should be judged in a consistent way.

 

[Springs]

Well they must of done to grade him! But like I said I have been to gradings and observed some shocking results, not taking anything away from your success and well done.

 

[sywell]

Have Breeders Elite been accepted by WFSHB? I know they have applied. It does depend on what you want to do with your horse. I know that many stud books will not accept progeny of CB stallions because CBHS is not a member of WFSHB.

There were approaches from Breeders Elite to the WBFSH in Warsaw last year as they are not accepted for the Young Horse Classes in Lanaken but they will find it difficult to comply with the statutes of the WBFSH "Be a horse studbook that is a studbook of members and controlled by these members in a democratic fashion " and they will need mare grading and public grading of stallions and mares not private.

 

[Rollin]

There were approaches from Breeders Elite to the WBFSH in Warsaw last year as they are not accepted for the Young Horse Classes in Lanaken but they will find it difficult to comply with the statutes of the WBFSH "Be a horse studbook that is a studbook of members and controlled by these members in a democratic fashion " and they will need mare grading and public grading of stallions and mares not private.

I have actually written to a member of the Executive Committee asking for more information, I saw the minutes from Warsaw.

I can think of another stud book which would face problems with Open Grading and Democracy!! That is why I chose SHGB for my young horse.

 

[sywell]

There are two new applications this year but the Department headed by Alison of the IHB will report to the main board in Rio and then they will come forward at the Delegate conferance for a vote but there is no information on who they are at the moment.

 

[popsdosh]

Its not really an issue as it only affects two championships and it will be at least 3 more years before any youngstock would be eligible anyhow. I am sure everything will be sorted by then .I register all mine BE now!

 

[popsdosh]

There were approaches from Breeders Elite to the WBFSH in Warsaw last year as they are not accepted for the Young Horse Classes in Lanaken but they will find it difficult to comply with the statutes of the WBFSH "Be a horse studbook that is a studbook of members and controlled by these members in a democratic fashion " and they will need mare grading and public grading of stallions and mares not private.

So how is that different from AES

 

[sywell]

Its not really an issue as it only affects two championships and it will be at least 3 more years before any youngstock would be eligible anyhow. I am sure everything will be sorted by then .I register all mine BE now!

As a breeder I would only register my foals with a studbook and BE is not a studbook the regulations on what constitutes a breed society are quite strict in the legislation and that could effect Futurity entries; in the long term it is important and as breeding is now a much more international operation buyers from other countries expect horses to have breed society papers with verified pedigrees..

 

[sywell]

So how is that different from AES

The AES and Breeders Elite are seperate organisations. The AES is recognised by the WBFSH and Breeders Elite is not so AES horses can enter the WBFSH young horse championships for Dressage,jumping and eventing but Breeders Elite cannot.

 

[popsdosh]

As a breeder I would only register my foals with a studbook and BE is not a studbook the regulations on what constitutes a breed society are quite strict in the legislation and that could effect Futurity entries; in the long term it is important and as breeding is now a much more international operation buyers from other countries expect horses to have breed society papers with verified pedigrees..

For BE read breeders elite by the time its an issue they will be members or are you saying they are not a studbook . At the end of the day if you go into detail the only one that does not offer mare gradings is the AES and part of the split was over private grading of stallions within europe which AES still have not addressed. All stock registered with breeders elite is able to enter the futurity and always will be as they are a recognised studbook! The WBFSH is merely a federation of various studbooks who have the 3 world championships they are not an overall official authority that every studbook has to belong to. If I had to put my money on it I know which of the two I think will survive longest.

 

[sywell]

For BE read breeders elite by the time its an issue they will be members or are you saying they are not a studbook . At the end of the day if you go into detail the only one that does not offer mare gradings is the AES and part of the split was over private grading of stallions within europe which AES still have not addressed. All stock registered with breeders elite is able to enter the futurity and always will be as they are a recognised studbook! The WBFSH is merely a federation of various studbooks who have the 3 world championships they are not an overall official authority that every studbook has to belong to. If I had to put my money on it I know which of the two I think will survive longest.

At meetings i have attended I did not see much support for BE membership of the WBFSH and the following also makes interesting reading.
Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND
OF THE COUNCIL amending Directives 89/608/EEC, 90/425/EEC and
91/496/EEC as regards references to zootechnical legislation

 

[Rollin]

At meetings i have attended I did not see much support for BE membership of the WBFSH and the following also makes interesting reading.
Proposal for a DIRECTIVE OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND
OF THE COUNCIL amending Directives 89/608/EEC, 90/425/EEC and
91/496/EEC as regards references to zootechnical legislation

Sywell could you indulge me with a link to the above articles, I know last time I was looking for something on the EU Parliament website it took ages to find.

 

[sywell]

If you give me an email address I will send a copy of it and the new 504/2008.hanoveriangb@gmail.com

 

[Rollin]

If you give me an email address I will send a copy of it and the new 504/2008.hanoveriangb@gmail.com

Will do. I did do a search yesterday but could only find Directives for Industry, nothing for equidae or zootechnics.

 

[Springs]

For BE read breeders elite by the time its an issue they will be members or are you saying they are not a studbook . At the end of the day if you go into detail the only one that does not offer mare gradings is the AES and part of the split was over private grading of stallions within europe which AES still have not addressed. All stock registered with breeders elite is able to enter the futurity and always will be as they are a recognised studbook! The WBFSH is merely a federation of various studbooks who have the 3 world championships they are not an overall official authority that every studbook has to belong to. If I had to put my money on it I know which of the two I think will survive longest.

This is very true and I could not have said it better. It would appear the members of the WBFSH are in direct competition with Breeders Elite for the same business and it is in there best interest for them to deny Breeders Elite entry to the federation....

 

[Rollin]

This is very true and I could not have said it better. It would appear the members of the WBFSH are in direct competition with Breeders Elite for the same business and it is in there best interest for them to deny Breeders Elite entry to the federation....

I know from personal experience that if a stallion is not graded by a WBFSH member he will not be accepted into another stud book without a new grading.

 

[Bedlam]

I suspect that Breeders Elite may end up WFBSH accredited and I have great respect for Henk. I would not, however, register, license or grade a young stallion (or mare) with them as they are not yet accredited and my suspicion may well be wrong. Why take the risk if you don't have a personal interest in making the studbooks a success? Why not go with one that already is? So - my best bet would be SHBGB to be honest.