AES - what's happening?

[jamesmead]

Just to add - upheavals and power struggles, splits and mergers of this kind are common enough in business and we hear nothing very much about them; its business as usual on the surface while the politics go on in the background.

The studbook is too hot a property to be allowed to fail and I don't think we need be as worried as the Flyingbucks of this world would like us to be.

 

[Flyingbuck]

Just to add - upheavals and power struggles, splits and mergers of this kind are common enough in business and we hear nothing very much about them; its business as usual on the surface while the politics go on in the background.

The studbook is too hot a property to be allowed to fail and I don't think we need be as worried as the Flyingbucks of this world would like us to be.

And there you go!

We didn't have to wait too long.

Everyone should be aware - this is not just politics - it is more than that - it is a legal wrangle and it will be for the courts to determine which party will prevail and will be allowed to carry on the business. If it was just politics, it could have been sorted behind closed doors - this has evidently not been possible in this case.

 

[jamesmead]

I think you'll generally find that business politics involve a legal aspect. The only differences here are those of timing - which is unavoidable - and a certain oddly malicious involvement of such as yourself, Keith, who, for want of something better to do, seem wish to exaggerate any problems as much as possible, despite having no apparent personal involvement with the studbook.

 

[JanetGeorge]

I'm afraid Janet George is making MASSIVE assumptions here.

Anglo European Studbook Ltd. is a COMPANY NAME. There is no "obviously" about whether or not it owns the data or remains the studbook that was once associated with that name. A name can be sold without the business that first used it. (Of course, buying a ready-made "company" in the sense of a registered name is actually a normal way to start up in business, cheaper and quicker than going through the process from scratch).

Any authority dealing with the original business would NOT transfer their interest to a new business re-using the old name; so it cannot be certain that "Anglo European Studbook Ltd." IS the PIO recognised by DEFRA as it may no longer be the same business.

That the new directors claim it is the "real" studbook is really neither here not there; Henk, by holding gradings, appears to be claiming otherwise with just as much justification.

As Janet George says, the law will decide; but until it does, I feel a lot safer with my gut feeling than with the "information" as relayed by Janet George and interpreted at face value as if the law had already decided.

Gee James - I DO hope you don't run a Ltd. company because if you do, your knowledge and understanding of company law and how a company operates may get you into BIG trouble!

Who on EARTH would buy (or sell) a well known company name without the associated business - leaving the 'business' to operate in competition? And all customers to be plunged into total confusion? Only a total moron! And I don't think the people on either side of this wrangle are morons!

And do you really think DEFRA will say - "Ah - here is someone with a different name - who is NOT registered as a PIO - using data from an existing registered PIO - we'll just register them too?? Now there are some slightly dim people at DEFRA - but not THAT dim!

 

[Flyingbuck]

I think you'll generally find that business politics involve a legal aspect. The only differences here are those of timing - which is unavoidable - and a certain oddly malicious involvement of such as yourself, Keith, who, for want of something better to do, seem wish to exaggerate any problems as much as possible, despite having no apparent personal involvement with the studbook.

It's unfortunate that you can't get your points across, however nonsensical they may be, without being rude and offensive towards me. But hey-ho....

However, the attempts at deflection won't work - I am still as keen as ever for further information regarding the resolution of problems currently besetting the AES studbook.

 

[elijahasgal]

Please can we instead of all the backbiting, nitpicking, etc etc, remember that the AES is a fantastic studbook that has done wonders for UK breeding, and is doing things its own way, not the same as European way, and doing well.
Please can we agree to wait for the promised announcements, that I am assured by some of our prominent breeders who have spoken to Henk, are all well within order, and waiting to be given.
Lets not turn this into sniping at one another, flying our own adgendas etc.

 

[Alec Swan]

Gee James - I DO hope you don't run a Ltd. company because if you do, your knowledge and understanding of company law and how a company operates may get you into BIG trouble!

.......

Are the Haywards Heath branch of the AES a Limited Company?

Alec.

 

[ColourFan]

Has anyone heard anything yet?
I was told by a Dutch relation, who is in contact with the Dutch Party, that the court case was to take place yesterday (in the U.K.).
It is dead silent on the Dutch Forums.

By the by, one of the 3-year olds that was 'Approved' at the Dutch A.E.S. Approvals has been sold to America.

 

[Yorketown]

An article I have read today but don't know how acurate the facts are:
'The administrative troubles within the AES studbook were resolved this week. The major shareholder and director of the Studbook, Kees van den Oetelaar, had a disagreement with the former director Henk Minderman, who still claimed to be the director. As Henk Minderman organized a licensing day in Belgium recently Van den Oetelaar filed an complained against Minderman in England. Now Minderman and Van Oetelaar have reached a common understanding.
“Shortly before the hearing in English court , Minderman wanted to settle with us. Our demands – including that he is now no longer concerned with the AES, the phone is switched to us, his website will be offline and the administration is transmitted to us – are granted,” states Joris van den Oetelaar, on the website of the AES. The breeders were mainly confused after two inspections that took place recently. Minderman claimed that the inspection in Schijndel on 15 March was not valid and he organized a show in Fleurus in the last weekend of March.
“Next week we’ll organize another AES inspection in Schijndel, for the breeders that took part in Fleurus that have become victims of the invalid test in Belgium,” continues Van den Oetelaar.
© equnews.com/ AES Studbook'

 

[Wisnette]

If you google Angle European Studbook Ltd, there's a whole lot of websites giving company information... there's only 2 directors now. For an organisation holding stallion gradings, its very interesting to see who previous directors have been!!

 

[oldywoldy]

Louise Minderman has just released a statement I think it will be on the aes website basically nothing has been resolved

 

[Alec Swan]

I've just spoken with a staff member from AES (Sussex), and it's now my understanding that all British registrations, whilst still accepted by their delightful and helpful staff, will actually be registered through SIES, The Studbook of Ireland and European Sporthorses. The SIES will be the PIO. It's my understanding that this has taken effect from today.

I would suggest that Henk Minderman, and his excellent team are given all the support that British Breeders can muster.

Alec.

 

[elijahasgal]

Interestingly, I have just tried to access the AES website, and it is down.
I personally hope that the AES realise just how much support Henk has in this country, and that if he joins the Irish sport horse, that he now having steered one studbook to the level that it has got to, he surely can guide another there.
Tremendous shame all the aggro, and worrying time for the stallion owners that have just been admitted and are now on uncertain standing.

 

[cruiseline]

I've just spoken with a staff member from AES (Sussex), and it's now my understanding that all British registrations, whilst still accepted by their delightful and helpful staff, will actually be registered through SIES, The Studbook of Ireland and European Sporthorses. The SIES will be the PIO. It's my understanding that this has taken effect from today.

I would suggest that Henk Minderman, and his excellent team are given all the support that British Breeders can muster.

Alec.

Hear, hear Alec now is the time for British Breeders to stick together and support Henk, who has tirelessly put his time and effort into providing us all with a WORLD RANKED studbook.

 

[shirleyno2]

Well I for one will be fully supporting the Irish studbook, lets bear in mind that it is Northern Ireland based I believe, so fully British.

 

[Pippin79]

I've just spoken with a staff member from AES (Sussex), and it's now my understanding that all British registrations, whilst still accepted by their delightful and helpful staff, will actually be registered through SIES, The Studbook of Ireland and European Sporthorses. The SIES will be the PIO. It's my understanding that this has taken effect from today.

I would suggest that Henk Minderman, and his excellent team are given all the support that British Breeders can muster.

Alec.

Ditto this. I for one will support whichever studbook Henk remains with. No-one has done more for British breeding.

 

[no_no_nanette]

I've just spoken with a staff member from AES (Sussex), and it's now my understanding that all British registrations, whilst still accepted by their delightful and helpful staff, will actually be registered through SIES, The Studbook of Ireland and European Sporthorses. The SIES will be the PIO. It's my understanding that this has taken effect from today.

I would suggest that Henk Minderman, and his excellent team are given all the support that British Breeders can muster.

Alec.

Thank you Alec for bringing some wisdom and generosity into this debate. And I completely endorse your feeling that Henk and his team should be given all possible support. After all, he did get a Lifetime Award from the BEF in recognition of all that he has done for British breeding : with all the carping that has gone on, it would be easy to forget the incredibly valuable role that he has played.

 

[Rollin]

I wonder what this will mean for AES in France. I have one ShGxCB registered with them. I had hoped this would give me an opportunity to compete part bred CB's in France.

As I will breed more ShGxCB finding a stud book for them is important.

 

[Yorketown]

Thanks for the update Alec, I will be registering mine with SIES then!!

 

[koeffee]

I will register with sies too, also its what the Welsh call the English!! seems fitting!!

 

[cruiseline]

I too will be registering my 2013 foals with SEIS if Henk is at the helm.

 

[gadetra]

Interestingly, I have just tried to access the AES website, and it is down.
I personally hope that the AES realise just how much support Henk has in this country, and that if he joins the Irish sport horse, that he now having steered one studbook to the level that it has got to, he surely can guide another there.
Tremendous shame all the aggro, and worrying time for the stallion owners that have just been admitted and are now on uncertain standing.

Just a little aside-the SIES has NOTHING to do with the ISH studbook, it is a completely separate thing, and to be honest I have never heard of it. It is extremely difficult to set up another PIO in southern Ireland, as we only really have one, and the new warmblood one (which is very small at the moment) as the SJ warmblood studbook failure illustrates.
I am a little wary of having Ireland in the name of the new studbook, and surprised it has been allowed.

Also Shirleyno2 I would be very careful of making assertions of nationality based in NI. It is one of the most (unintentionally!) contentious statements I have ever read on HHO!

Anyway sorry for hijack, it seems like a really sad situation, and maybe one where money has won out over decency and hard work. Such a pity.

 

[cruiseline]

Obviously that should read SIES, my excuse is its late and I am on the mobile :-S

 

[shirleyno2]

Also Shirleyno2 I would be very careful of making assertions of nationality based in NI. It is one of the most (unintentionally!) contentious statements I have ever read on HHO! .

I always thought NI was part of GB? Am I being dense!?

 

[gadetra]

I always thought NI was part of GB? Am I being dense!?

Sorry no you are not being dense!
It's seen as part of Southern Ireland for quite a large amount of its inhabitants.
It is part of GB administratively but not really altogether happily! It's a long long extremely complex story that doesn't matter here, I was just shocked to hear it put like that as it is not necessarily how it is seen over here!
Anyway, it doesn't matter here just an aside.

 

[Truly]

I always thought NI was part of GB? Am I being dense!?

I thought it was too Shirley ...my ex husband was a Catholic from NI and he had a British passport.

 

[gadetra]

I thought it was too Shirley ...my ex husband was a Catholic from NI and he had a British passport.

It's an awful lot more complicated than that unfortunately!
Anyway, sorry for hijack!

 

[HBM1]

I think we all know that from what we have been through about it in the past. However as far as a passport issuing studbook is concerned it seems ok for England (etc) based breeders to use as well.

 

[EstherYoung]

I thought it was too Shirley ...my ex husband was a Catholic from NI and he had a British passport.

Legally they're all eligible for nationality of both countries as long as they tick the usual nationality eligibility boxes. Basically being born in NI 'counts' as being born in Ireland and as being born in the UK for the purposes of establishing nationality.

And yeah, the way Shirley said it, I can see how that statement could be seen as a bit (unintentionally) contentious.

 

[shirleyno2]

No contentiousness intended!!!!!
Meant purely on the paperwork side of things!