Aggressive neighbour - any advice?

[Gingerwitch]

Night security for a few weeks ?

 

[StretchyBetty]

Extra security, that seems like a good idea?

 

[StretchyBetty]

Although it doesn’t help her if she’s suffering with mental health issues.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thank you so much everyone, I do feel so much better knowing I'm not over-reacting. I have hesitated in getting anyone involved as I just feel sorry for her, but you're right she is getting dangerous.
We do have some video footage which the police have seen, they pretty much said that beyond telling her not to come onto our property there is little we can do. We have tried putting up some higher fences but she pushes them over during the night.

I wouldn't like to speculate about the husband/meds - we met him and he seemed ok, but he disappeared suddenly with the children and hasn't been seen since so there must have been something pretty dire going on.

The police then need to be reminded that you should be permitted to go about your lawful business and enjoy your right to live on your property without being harrassed.
Yes, trespassing is a civil offence (how I wish it wasnt) but harassment to the point of tradespeople unable to carry out work is not.

 

[StretchyBetty]

Do you know where she moved from and is there anyway you can find out whether she’s done something similar in the past? Maybe she has history? Are private investigators still a thing or is that only from films from the ‘80’s

 

[millikins]

It sounds a terrible situation. I have a neighbour with mental health and alcohol issues, he's been harassing me for 2 years now though not in a physically aggressive way so up to now I haven't involved the police. However I am seriously considering it as the council have been as much use as the proverbial chocolate teapot.
Something else to bear in mind; frequent activity at night and aggressive, erratic behaviour would have me thinking are drugs involved? Druggies and dealers get old too if they don't kill themselves first.

 

[StretchyBetty]

It sounds a terrible situation. I have a neighbour with mental health and alcohol issues, he's been harassing me for 2 years now though not in a physically aggressive way so up to now I haven't involved the police. However I am seriously considering it as the council have been as much use as the proverbial chocolate teapot.
Something else to bear in mind; frequent activity at night and aggressive, erratic behaviour would have me thinking are drugs involved? Druggies and dealers get old too if they don't kill themselves first.

That could explain the people coming and going from her property in the evenings that fiveleafclover21 mentions?

 

[TulipTilly]

Stay strong and listen to the many sensible comments! Mental health issues are no excuse for that kind of behaviour, and if support is what she needs I hope she gets it. In the meantime don't let it allow you to feel intimidated. See it for what it is

 

[millikins]

That could explain the people coming and going from her property in the evenings that fiveleafclover21 mentions?

Yes, that's what I was getting at. Also the OP calls her "elderly" but goes on to say her husband left and took the children, so possibly not that old.

 

[fluffycobs4life]

Do you know where she moved from and is there anyway you can find out whether she’s done something similar in the past? Maybe she has history? Are private investigators still a thing or is that only from films from the ‘80’s

This is very valid,if you do a bit of research you tend to find these sorts of people have 'form'.....ours certainly does

 

[P.forpony]

All the above comments about keeping and communicating to police (and other agencies) detailed records of events are crucial.

It is not unkind to protect yourself, your staff, your horses, your property and your livelihood.

The police are often the first step towards help for people who are alone with MH issues.
By not holding her to acceptable standards of behaviour, even with the kindest of intentions, it may only delay this process.

Also bear in mind that if she is pushing down fences in order to facilitate her trespass this is criminal damage and not just a civil matter.

 

[Melody Grey]

If the severity/ frequency of incidents is significant enough and can be seen to be increasing, she may be sectioned under the mental health act if she’s considered harmful to herself or others (which it sounds like she may be getting towards).
As others have said report absolutely everything to the police/ council though- make a PITA of yourself. Some mental health services seem to have a higher threshold for this than others though (based on my work experience).

it sounds like your neighbour needs help- I don’t think you’d be getting her in trouble, rather highlighting this need.

 

[Honey08]

You’re not just reporting things for your own reasons, you’re doing it because the police should hopefully (eventually) get other people involved to help her mentally.

 

[yhanni]

It might also be an idea to ring the local GP practice/practices if you have one. Obviously they wouldn't be able to tell you if she's a patient of theirs or if she has form for this behaviour but if she is a patient they can document your concerns and contact any services that have been involved in the past. Whenever you phone the police, document the name of the person you speak to and make them aware that you're doing it, obviously not in an aggressive way!

 

[yhanni]

By the way, I have been a mental health nurse for over 40 years and I would be very, very concerned if this woman was coming onto my property and exhibiting this kind of behaviour. As said above, the police do have powers under Sec 136 but only if she is in a public place. Can anyone stay there overnight? I would be worried about fire etc. Can you borrow a big, noisy dog??

 

[TulipTilly]

Police involvement sadly sounds very necessary. Plenty of ways this person can be supported - you shouldn't have to put up with this. All the very best with resolving the problem!

 

[Frano]

Police and legal advice. You are not responsible for this woman. She may be ill, but has no right to cause you all this trouble.

 

[Apizz2019]

I echo what others have said.

Contact Age UK, social services too maybe, but you must gather evidence - cctv, keep a log, film her when she's harassing and putting your horses and liveries at risk etc.

There is no quick fix as you'll need to gather as much evidence as you can but regular police visits will help you on your way.

It sounds like she's had or is having a mental crisis, sadly.

 

[Hanno Verian]

Sorry to hear about your situation all I can say is you arent alone, it may feel that way but you aren't. I would certainly get the police involved, the attitudes of police can vary my only experience of this is 15 years ago when my girlfriend was having problems with an elderly neighbour, we believe he let the horses out a number of times (before there was anyone living on site) would throw rubbish including glass and nails into the school (it bordered up against his property) and came to a head when he poisoned her dog. We went straight to the police who took it very seriously and were around very sharply and the two WPC's put the fear of god into him!

Luckily he was in rented property - we were on an estate, and the owner moved him to a more remote property after we made him aware of what was happening.

Be careful, take precautions, log everything and get the police involved at any stage she has harassed you, which is defined as when someone behaves in a way which makes you feel distressed, humiliated or threatened. Record any impact on you, your family and business - emotional, financial - cost of precautions, increased cost of work caused by her delaying/interfering, lost business and any other costs or impacts, don't forget to record how it has made you feel as well.

Video and photos will help strengthen your case

This is a very unwell person who needs help, possibly getting them sectioned or on the radar of the authorities is the kindest thing for them.

Do they own or rent their property? If its rented I would make the owners aware.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

I'd see two options (Disclaimer: before i type this please note i am not particularly a nice or tolerant person) You log all incidents and get an injunction out against her that she isn't to come on to your property and then follow through calling the police each and every time she breaches that injunction.

Or i would give her the biggest hiding of her life and become the threatening nutcase and turn the tables. I'd beat her each and every time she even looked in my direction, probably with something heavy if im honest (terrible nights sleep so feeling extra evil and intolerant today) NOBODY has the right to treat you or your staff like this. Poor you, this is not fair and totally unacceptable. Please seek legal and police advise ASAP.

 

[oldie48]

Sadly there are too many people with serious MH issues who are unable to get the help they need unless they are deemed to be a danger either to themselves or other people, so involving the police and documenting every incident is crucial. If you live in an area where everyone uses the same GP surgery I'd also contact them and voice your concerns about her. As already said they won't discuss her with you but they should log your concerns and they may be having some contact with her. If she's psychotic, and it sounds as if she is, please remember she's not rational and she can't be reasoned with, she may be hearing voices and bizarre behaviour can easily escalate into violence, so I'd be very wary of interacting with her. I am so sorry that you are having these difficulties, she sounds as if she is seriously ill so by documenting her actions you may help to get her the help she needs but please keep yourself safe.

 

[pansymouse]

Good, full record keeping is key - ask the authorities (police and local council) what information they need to see in a log and follow that format. If funds allow, install a good CCTV system with recording, audio and alerts - I know of someone whose neighbour was sent to prison after been filmed driving a bulldozer through their locked gate - her logs where used as supporting evidence. Try if possible not to engage with the lady without showing any emotion - just move her on so both you and your property/staff, and she are safe. Building an evidence log and frequent reporting phone calls will move her up the priority list to get her the help she clearly needs as well as protecting you.

 

[Carlosmum]

I would also add contact your insurance company too. If she damages something you may need to make a claim against her. Are you a BHS member? they may also offer advice.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Neighbour 'stuff' can be horrendous, she sounds very unhappy herself. Try to count yourself lucky you are not so vindsictive, it must be awful inside her head. #bekind has totally gone out of the window tonight on here

Oh dont be ridiculous, of course its obvious the woman is having some sort of mental crisis - what is OP supposed to do in this very frightening and most probably dangerous situation. Smile tolerantly and mutter soothing words at the neighbor as she ramps up the harassment and incidents become more and more dangerous and threatening to both OP and her family and her clients as well.

I will be kind as you like once the woman has ceased to threaten and abuse those who are unfortunate enough to be in her firing line and once she is safely tucked away in a mental health ward, getting the treatment she very clearly needs right now.

 

[TheOldTrout]

As others have said, keep a diary of her behaviour and keep notifying the police and council.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I would put up some really tall metal fences on the boundary, or at least so she cannot see who is in the school and when, even if they are temporary until you have enough of a recorded history of harassment that you can get the police to pull their finger out and do something. I would then make sure there are some cameras covering the yard as if she should pull this fence down, I believe it may be criminal damage or similar.

I am not sure on the legalities, but could she be dissuaded by a guarding breed dog? Assuming you have the ability to own/handle said dog. Or could you even get security to keep an eye on the yard for a couple of nights, large expense initially but may stop her in her tracks and could think better of the idea. With everything being shut a lot of security is desperate for work so you should get a good price.

She does seem to be having a crisis of some sort, but without sounding horrible that isn't your problem and you don't need to help. Your priority is keeping her off your land and keeping your animals and staff safe.

 

[Birker2020]

Hi all, I don't usually post here but I am feeling really worried about this and hoping someone can offer some advice.

I run a small yard where our main focus is rehabilitation and schooling livery. I bought the yard last year, it was part of a bigger property at the time so we share a couple of boundaries with a neighbour. She was very friendly when we moved in, and often came to the yard for a cup of tea and look round, and everything seemed fine. She would sometimes turn up unannounced but as she lives so close we couldn't really stop her.

However, a few months ago she suffered a marriage breakdown, and since then her mental health seems to have really deteriorated, and her behaviour has become quite worrying. She started coming onto the yard at all hours and we'd often find things in the morning that had been moved from where we left them at evening stables. She started shouting at the staff who come in to do the morning shift (around 7am) that they were making too much noise, so I did ask them to make extra sure they were quiet and had no music on etc. Her house is about 500m from the stables so not too close for normal yard noise. She even sent some complaints to the council about noise, who did come to visit us but advised that we were doing nothing wrong.

In the end we found her on the yard very late at night with some scary-looking camera equipment, and so we confronted her. She was very aggressive and we just asked her to leave as we we so scared for ourselves and the horses. Although she's quite elderly she is quite a large woman and so can be physically very intimidating at times. Since then things have gone from bad to worse and she's making our lives unbearable. Recently, we were trying to install a fence in one of our paddocks and she actually came and sat under the machinery to try to stop us! She became so aggressive this time that we had to call the police as she was threatening us. They were very sympathetic and did remove her back to her own property on this occasion but they can't be there all the time and we really don't want to waste their time at the moment. She's repeatedly tried to block the machinery (we're having some yard work done) and has even tried to climb into the cab with some of the work men to stop them! We thought perhaps she was just lonely but they are now feeling really threatened and don't want to come onto the yard anymore. I've invested my life savings into this yard so really can't afford any delays.

We have set up some CCTV on our shared gateway, and there are a lot of comings and goings to her house late at night, so on top of everything else we are worried about the risk of Covid as she keeps coming onto our property uninvited.

We've put up with all of this, but today she parked her car next to our arena (it's close to the land boundary) and started beeping her horn and shouting at the girls while they were riding. As you can imagine this caused absolute chaos in the arena and now the girls don't feel safe riding when she is about (which is most of the time as she is unemployed).

Sorry it's so long! Does anyone have any advice about what we could do? We'd like to make the yard more secure but it's a big area to cover and most of the boundary is just normal post and rail, so it's going to be impossible to block her access completely. I don't want to get her into trouble as she genuinely just seems really unbalanced at the moment. She doesn't have any family so we haven't been able to check with anyone if she needs help. I'm hoping someone may have experienced something like this before and know who we can turn to?

She sounds like she might have some kind of dementia or her mental health is poor. Like someone else said Age UK may be able to offer advice or maybe you can make a referral to your local Mental Health team at your Local Authority. The Police may have signposted her to services or already alerted the Community Mental Health Team.

 

[Ranyhyn]

You do, of course, have to report every incident to the police. My personal experience is that, even when you do so, unless you're lucky with the officer you get, you will find little is done.

Harrassment is defined as "a course of conduct directed at or towards an individual by another that causes that person to feel afraid, alarmed or distressed or that violence may be used against them or another. " Your various reports should act as a log enough to prove a course on conduct. The points to prove would be that she intends to cause the above which may be harder, but not impossible for any decent officer.

You shouldn't have to live like this, the law is there to protect you from having to live like this, its just sadly between the law and the victim are the police, who are rapidly turning into a defunct organisation whose main MO is to cuff issues at source.

 

[hollyandivy123]

next time as well as the police and would call an ambulance, if she is going through a crisis then it is another way to bring in the system

 

[Quadro]

I would contact the Police. If they have concerns re her mental health they will put in a Police concern (Scotland, but England will have a similar procedure) which will be shared with her GP/psych services if she is already involved with them.