Aggressive off lead dogs - wwyd?

[Adele2003]

As I can trust my dogs, there is no problem. I thought you meant big dogs attacking small ones, as that was the theme of the thread. I can trust mine not to do that either. Although I know plenty of snappy little dogs, should they be muzzled too?

ALL DOGS ARE ANIMALS please everyone try remember this. you control and train your dogs but if they take a dislike to someone or something they will retaliate by what is their nature to attack you can't trust any animal so keep them muzzled and on the lead saves children getting attacked and anyone and anything getting attacked

 

[Adele2003]

I don't know if you are just a dog hater or a troll.

I have a dog of my own but im sick and tired of being scared of other peoples dogs i like walking but I've stopped. Why is that, if they're was a law people muzzled their dogs i might feel safe to walk again

 

[Adele2003]

I have a dog of my own but im sick and tired of being scared of other peoples dogs i like walking but I've stopped. Why is that, if they're was a law people muzzled their dogs i might feel safe to walk again

And there's no need for nasty comments

 

[meleeka]

I have a dog of my own but im sick and tired of being scared of other peoples dogs i like walking but I've stopped. Why is that, if they're was a law people muzzled their dogs i might feel safe to walk again

So you’d be happy for dogs to still be out of control, provided they couldn’t bite?

 

[paddy555]

I'll stick my head above the paraquat here. First things first, the OP should be reporting the muppet who has 4 dogs of any breed that they can't control, that is totally unacceptable. I have a rottie who is incredibly strong - he's only 47 kgs. but while he is not dog or people aggressive (he would be muzzled in public if he was) when he has a tantrum I do worry that I could lose hold. As a result, he is on two leads, a head collar and a harness. The head collar lead which is also attached to his collar is attached to me by a walking belt and he actually walks nicely on the lead attached to his harness. The reason he is attached to me is that if I was to slip or fall, he cannot get loose.

As a deaf, abused rescue with suspected brain damage he must not get loose as you can't call him back and if he was having a panic he would run blind and the consequences of that are too high - into the road or if someone tried to grab him, I wouldn't want to take the chance that he'd snap. He'd certainly go through them for a short cut and by virtue of his breed alone, people would be terrified. So I make sure he isn't loose, it's not rocket science to achieve that! I would love another dog and am actively looking for one but it will have to be small(er) and very easy on a lead/ trained sufficiently to be off lead as I could not physically cope with another strong dog safely at the moment. So I have only one dog currently. In the past I've walked 3 rotties at a time but only once they were trained reliably enough that I could control them at all times.

I know a lot of rottie owners and the great majority of them are very aware that they have a large breed that can scare people and worse case scenario, do a lot of damage. They are responsible, love their breed, train them well so keep their dogs and other people safe. They are even less impressed by irresponsible owners than most of you are because they don't want to be tarred with the same brush.

I regularly see dog walkers with all breeds of dog totally out of control. Many of them are large enough to do a similar amount of damage as a Rottweiler/GSD/mastiff/large bullbreeds/insert current 'DevilDog' breed but you don't hear the demands for them to muzzled/kept on lead at all times. Pointers/Labs/Retrievers/Malamutes/Huskies are often a similar weight and/or height to a rottie and this year alone I have seen each and every one of these breeds square up to other dogs and on occasion people but they don't attract the vitriol that other breeds do? IME if there is going to be a nasty fight, a male staffie type will usually be involved but they're nanny dogs you know so it's ok...

By virtue of being on HHO, we all handle/have handled much larger animals(horses!) and should know that keeping an animal under control is not a matter of strength alone. We'd be stuffed if it was - it's all about training and technique. I'm happy to be held responsible for my animals but refuse to be the brain for the brainless dog walkers who cannot control their dogs and let them charge up to mine. If they want to play, mine will happily do so but the size differential may not work for them... If they are looking for aggro, mine won't start a fight but I couldn't guarantee that he won't carry it on. I do everything in my power and take all reasonable steps to make sure that it wouldn't get to this stage but I can't control other people or their dogs! They are not my responsibility after all.

this. Mine is a GSD and when we go out he is double leaded with his harness to my waist band. This is not because he is vicious it is an insurance policy because he is a big dog and I am very careful towards the general public.

In the example in post 56 of the mastiff tragically killing the small dog it most likely would not have happened if the small dog had been leaded. If the mastiff was loose and had run up to it and killed it then of course the mastiff owner would be to blame.

 

[Michen]

this. Mine is a GSD and when we go out he is double leaded with his harness to my waist band. This is not because he is vicious it is an insurance policy because he is a big dog and I am very careful towards the general public.

In the example in post 56 of the mastiff tragically killing the small dog it most likely would not have happened if the small dog had been leaded. If the mastiff was loose and had run up to it and killed it then of course the mastiff owner would be to blame.

I completely agree. But my point is that legally, who is responsible as in that instance it seemed to be the mastiff owner?

So take the scenario of your dog is on lead. Dog runs up. Owner goes to grab it and gets bitten by your leashed dog in the process as it’s trying to defend itself/it’s owner.

I am not for one moment saying people with out of control unleashed dogs shouldn’t be held accountable, it’s an absolute pet hate of mine as the owner of a dog who has been trained to utterly ignore other dogs.

 

[Adele2003]

So you’d be happy for dogs to still be out of control, provided they couldn’t bite?

No but at least PEOPLE would feel safe out and about and not have to worry

 

[gunnergundog]

I completely agree. But my point is that legally, who is responsible as in that instance it seemed to be the mastiff owner?

So take the scenario of your dog is on lead. Dog runs up. Owner goes to grab it and gets bitten by your leashed dog in the process as it’s trying to defend itself/it’s owner.

I am not for one moment saying people with out of control unleashed dogs shouldn’t be held accountable, it’s an absolute pet hate of mine as the owner of a dog who has been trained to utterly ignore other dogs.

Have a read of the Trevor Cooper Dog Law website.

It's never cut and dry but Trevor has proven in court that a dog on leash is not necessarily under control. Past history, temperament of dog, fitness and skill of handler are just some of the factors that would be considered.

 

[Widgeon]

dont underestimate a animal with teeth

Humans are animals. Humans have teeth. Should we all be wearing Hannibal masks? Discuss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55587476

(Sorry, I will go and do some work now....*slinks away*)

 

[Widgeon]

Have a read of the Trevor Cooper Dog Law website.

It's never cut and dry but Trevor has proven in court that a dog on leash is not necessarily under control. Past history, temperament of dog, fitness and skill of handler are just some of the factors that would be considered.

On a slightly less immature note this is very interesting, thanks for sharing.

 

[paddy555]

Humans are animals. Humans have teeth. Should we all be wearing Hannibal masks? Discuss.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55587476

(Sorry, I will go and do some work now....*slinks away*)

when I was at school we had an animal house. Rats, mice, gerbils etc etc
I picked up a gerbil and the nasty little b*gger sank it's teeth into my finger and hung on.
Should he have been wearing a mask as well? I was severely traumatised.

(another one slinking off to do some work,)

 

[Michen]

Have a read of the Trevor Cooper Dog Law website.

It's never cut and dry but Trevor has proven in court that a dog on leash is not necessarily under control. Past history, temperament of dog, fitness and skill of handler are just some of the factors that would be considered.

Interesting and validates what I though- just because your dog is on a lead it doesn't mean you are automatically not in the wrong if it bites someone or something.

 

[cbmcts]

ALL DOGS ARE ANIMALS please everyone try remember this. you control and train your dogs but if they take a dislike to someone or something they will retaliate by what is their nature to attack you can't trust any animal so keep them muzzled and on the lead saves children getting attacked and anyone and anything getting attacked

You do realise that a muzzle is not a magic item that means a dog cannot injure anyone or anything? Ok, they can't bite - well if the Baskerville type muzzle stays on but they often don't IME and you cannot use a sleeve mizzle for extended periods or during exercise as they don't allow panting. Muzzled dogs can still hurt people and other animals by jumping up or knocking them over, bodyslamming, or splattiing a smaller dog and they can still worry livestock muzzled too

As dogs are animals, people as the supposedly more intelligent beings have to take responsibility for themselves and their animals by being aware, training their dog and if that is too much for them, keeping it leashed in public. If a dog 'takes a dislike' to something or somebody it is up to the handler to remove it from close proximity from others. It is also up to random members of the public to allow the handler to do that my keeping themselves and their dogs away. After all, we are still meant to be social distancing...

With the greatest respect, your fear and lack of trust in dogs should not impinge upon mine and other responsible dog walkers right to use public spaces. It's akin to saying that because some people drive dangerously, nobody should be allowed have a car. By all means, come down on dog walkers whose animals are causing problems, make it as socially unacceptable as drink driving is. If need be, regulate to have minimum standards of behaviour in public spaces but for that to work, it would need consistency of enforcement and that costs money and time. If that was in place, I bet a lot of privileged people who think that the world should revolve around them and theirs would be shocked and mortified when they got a fixed penalty or a caution because that shouldn't happen to those with 'nice' breeds you know.

 

[SAujla]

You do realise that a muzzle is not a magic item that means a dog cannot injure anyone or anything? Ok, they can't bite - well if the Baskerville type muzzle stays on but they often don't IME and you cannot use a sleeve mizzle for extended periods or during exercise as they don't allow panting. Muzzled dogs can still hurt people and other animals by jumping up or knocking them over, bodyslamming, or splattiing a smaller dog and they can still worry livestock muzzled too

As dogs are animals, people as the supposedly more intelligent beings have to take responsibility for themselves and their animals by being aware, training their dog and if that is too much for them, keeping it leashed in public. If a dog 'takes a dislike' to something or somebody it is up to the handler to remove it from close proximity from others. It is also up to random members of the public to allow the handler to do that my keeping themselves and their dogs away. After all, we are still meant to be social distancing...

With the greatest respect, your fear and lack of trust in dogs should not impinge upon mine and other responsible dog walkers right to use public spaces. It's akin to saying that because some people drive dangerously, nobody should be allowed have a car. By all means, come down on dog walkers whose animals are causing problems, make it as socially unacceptable as drink driving is. If need be, regulate to have minimum standards of behaviour in public spaces but for that to work, it would need consistency of enforcement and that costs money and time. If that was in place, I bet a lot of privileged people who think that the world should revolve around them and theirs would be shocked and mortified when they got a fixed penalty or a caution because that shouldn't happen to those with 'nice' breeds you know.

Very well said. A loose untrained dog is always going to be a problem, but I've seen just as many off lead dogs who act in a perfect manner. This wasn't by chance it's good training.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

My now retired mare was attacked by a collie while we were walking past its garden. I had thought for several weeks, that at some point it would either come over the fence at us or under the gate. I think collies are one of the most dangerous breeds, and ill trained one scares me far more than any of the lovely rotties and GSD's I know.

I have had many, many collies in earlier years and I could read this one like a book, I blame myself for not avoiding the route. One day it did actually squeeze under that gate and attacked my horse. My lovely mare just span and span trying to kick out at it - it bite her belly, her front legs and both of her back heels - at one point hanging on so hard to her back leg I jumped off and was thrashing it with my schooling whip until it eventually let go and squeezed back under the gate yelping, by this time the owner came out as she had obviously heard (and probably seen) all the commotion out of her window.

As I furiously told her how unsafe her dog was while I tried to see where all the blood was coming from on my horse, she asked me was I sure it was her dog and not the next door neighbours - a frickin westie!!!!

Long term outcome, my horse was lame and off work for 3 months mostly due to bites to her back legs, the collies owners did pay the bill when I threatened to get the dog warden on to it - over here it would probably have very quickly been taken and put down.

I guess the thing is - there really isn't a safe breed is there, it isn't a breed issue, it is a training issue. A badly trained dog of any breed can be very dangerous. Even the small breeds have been known to rip half a child's face off under certain circumstances. Blame the owners not the breed.

 

[GSD Woman]

Mrs Jingle, I hope your poor mare wasn't horribly, mentally traumatized by the attack. It seems like the loose, uncontrolled dog issue just gets worse over the years, not better.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Mrs Jingle, I hope your poor mare wasn't horribly, mentally traumatized by the attack. It seems like the loose, uncontrolled dog issue just gets worse over the years, not better.

Luckily she soon became relaxed around dogs again with our own mutts milling around her at home - and eventually we could still hack out safely with various farm dogs running along yapping at her heels. It says more about her forgiving nature and our horse friendly family dogs than anything I could do to help her, I just fixed the medical side, the family dogs fixed the emotional scars.

 

[laura_nash]

ALL DOGS ARE ANIMALS please everyone try remember this. you control and train your dogs but if they take a dislike to someone or something they will retaliate by what is their nature to attack you can't trust any animal so keep them muzzled and on the lead saves children getting attacked and anyone and anything getting attacked

All horses are animals too, and will kick as it's their nature to defend themselves. I guess we should ban them from public places too? This is an odd forum to choose if you distrust animals and think they're all about to randomly try and kill children.

Good job you don't live round here, most people here have latchkey dogs that go where they like during the day ? No children have been killed so far.

 

[laura_nash]

I have a dog of my own but im sick and tired of being scared of other peoples dogs i like walking but I've stopped.

You have a dog and you've stopped walking? I hope you've employed a dog walker.

 

[paddy555]

All horses are animals too, and will kick as it's their nature to defend themselves. I guess we should ban them from public places too? This is an odd forum to choose if you distrust animals and think they're all about to randomly try and kill children.

Good job you don't live round here, most people here have latchkey dogs that go where they like during the day ? No children have been killed so far.

horses, except semi ferals, are not wandering around the roads loose and able to cause an accident. The vast majority of horses in public places are under control and riders seem to take far more care than dog owners.

We have latch key dogs in my area.. Many are farm collies. They cause accidents and my neighbour"s collie bit a child and hospitalised him. He did live but was scarred.

I no longer walk my dog out. I am just so fed up with loose dogs. I cannot seem to manage any walk out without at least 2 loose dog incidents and that is simply not fair on my dog.
There is one road I wouldn't dare walk down and neither does anyone else. You get 4 loose farm dogs straight over the wall at you. There is no way I could get past them. My GSD is double leaded back to my waist band. He couldn't get loose from me and if he pulled me over he would simply be pulling a dead weight. However he would be traumatised trying to get through them, He is a quiet well behaved dog when we sit to let dogs go past us. I want him to stay that way.

I made great steps to solving the dog problem when riding. I taught the horse that when dogs come at us and owner's don't call them back we go on the attack. The last horse got very confident at this. He learnt to enjoy it. The owner's learnt to panic when they realised half a ton of horse really was going to march over their dog.

If dog's won't walk to heel past anything get them on a lead. Your choice. Train them or lead them. No one should allow their dog to make a nuisance of itself.

 

[Lipglosspukka]

My dogs are okay ish. They aren't aggressive at all, but they are rude and would run up to another dog barking if they had the chance. They aren't unsociable and will play, however the initial impolite greeting is of course concerning for some dogs so I don't put them in the situation.

As a result I take precautions with our walking routines. We go out at 5am (Which was extremely painful this morning with the clock change!) And they are only allowed off in certain areas where I can see a long way off if anyone else is around (at 5am, believe me there isn't!) And then our afternoon walk is in private fields when feeding the horses when I know I won't see anyone else.

If you can't be assed to train them, then be prepared to have to put yourself out to exercise them in ways that won't affect the rest of the general public.

 

[Schollym]

Yes they do, dogs are dogs they are ANIMALS your small doggy could go to a large doggy and cause war it can happen between any dog. your small dog has teeth can bite adult or child cause injury or scars dont underestimate a animal with teeth

Both incidents we have had recently with small dogs one was a jack russell attacking our lab ( the owner was ‘walking’ her three dogs by having them run behind her land rover as she drove down a green lane) the other more recently a shihztu that grabbed our dogs back leg. Both situations were dealt with by our normally mild mannered labradoodle that picked them up and threw them ( the first incident she was minding her own business hunting in the ditch and came to the rescue) the second it was her leg. Fortunately neither of our dogs were hurt but both were unprovoked attacks.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I think ALL dogs small and large should be muzzled in public.

Considering accident, and crime statistics involving humans vs dogs, I think that:

All cars and trucks should have a sharp pointy metal stick attached to the middle of the steering wheel so that all drivers finally realised that they have to drive carefully, and stop killing pedestrians and bicyclists.

All humans should be on leash to some ethically programmed robot, and men, and teenagers should wear some type of electric shock collar.

Edited To Add:

I have a dog of my own but im sick and tired of being scared of other peoples dogs i like walking but I've stopped. Why is that, if they're was a law people muzzled their dogs i might feel safe to walk again

I forgot to ask, what type of muzzle is your dog wearing?

 

[GSD Woman]

If you can't be assed to train them, then be prepared to have to put yourself out to exercise them in ways that won't affect the rest of the general public.

This, so much this. I had a dog that would go for other dogs as she got older. Once, and I mean once, that happened she was always exercised either on lead or in a very safe area. I have a large, fenced, back garden and my neighbor has a large extra lot that he allows me to use to run the dogs. I'm lucky in those regards because so many suburban areas that isn't available.

 

[AmyMay]

I think ALL dogs small and large should be muzzled in public.

Just coming back to this. The collie I walk was attacked yesterday by a GS wearing a muzzle. The dog is badly bruised.

So how exactly does your muzzling policy work exactly??

 

[Michen]

Just coming back to this. The collie I walk was attacked yesterday by a GS wearing a muzzle. The dog is badly bruised.

So how exactly does your muzzling policy work exactly??

well imagine if the dog wasn’t wearing a muzzle, what the injuries would have been then? I don’t agree with muzzling all dogs btw but thank god for the collies sake it was I guess.

 

[AmyMay]

well imagine if the dog wasn’t wearing a muzzle, what the injuries would have been then? I don’t agree with muzzling all dogs btw but thank god for the collies sake it was I guess.

Well, yes you make an excellent point. And I absolutely take that on board.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

well imagine if the dog wasn’t wearing a muzzle, what the injuries would have been then? I don’t agree with muzzling all dogs btw but thank god for the collies sake it was I guess.

If muzzling wasn't an option, perhaps the GS would have been euthanised, and it wouldn't have happened at all?

 

[Moobli]

There is a petition currently doing the rounds asking for a law to make it compulsory for all dogs to be on a lead in public places. I understand the sentiment but it isn't something I could ever support. Why should those of us who work hard to train our dogs to be obedient be penalised for those who don't, can't or won't do the same?

 

[AmyMay]

There is a petition currently doing the rounds asking for a law to make it compulsory for all dogs to be on a lead in public places. I understand the sentiment but it isn't something I could ever support. Why should those of us who work hard to train our dogs to be obedient be penalised for those who don't, can't or won't do the same?

Not something I’d ever support either. Owners just need to take responsibility for training their dogs. It’s as simple as that.