Aggressive off lead dogs - wwyd?

[palo1]

I don't think that anyone should take a dog hacking with them. You can't get hold of the dog from on top of the horse - and no-one can guarantee their dog's behaviour under all circumstances, no matter how well trained it is. I hate to see dogs wandering along the side of the road yards behind a horse, whose rider can't possibly know exactly what the dog is doing. Of course if you ride on your own land, that is totally different.

This is an interesting perspective Pearlsasinger and having had more tricky/less reliable dogs in the past I entirely understand your point. In these parts - pretty rural Welsh borders, it is incredibly common to see people riding with their dogs alongside too. I am cautious with my chap and he is always wearing hi viz as I would hate for him to be injured but many many people are able to hack out with their dogs with no problems in my experience. I think most of those people can anticipate very reliably exactly how their dog will behave - similar to how we know how our horses are likely to behave.

 

[Michen]

I think that most points I was thinking of have been covered pretty well in other replies. No matter how good your dog's recall is, it is still good practice to bring a lead. A lead is more use in an emergency if it is brought along rather than left hung on a hook at home.

Maybe a field you cross regularly unexpectedly has sheep put on it, and surely everyone out walking puts their dog on a lead when crossing fields containing farm animals? It is a courtesy to hard pressed farmers, who may not know that your immaculately trained at heel dog would never chase them, when maybe he lost 10 ewes to an off lead dog attack the week before. Also, some people are genuinely frightened of dogs, so if you come across other walkers in a tight spot, IMHO it's polite to pop your dog briefly on a lead as you pass.

If a dog thinks that a lead is 'punishment', then surely that is a gap in the training? All dogs should accept a lead. In any case, if the dog ever needed slow rehab after an injury of some sort, then it may need to be walked only on a lead for some weeks, so it is best that it already knows and is comfortable about leads.

I don’t recall anyone saying their dog thinks a lead is punishment!?

 

[blackcob]

It doesn't just send a signal to the farmer but also to other dog walkers, that they need to put their own dogs on a lead.

Now that's an interesting thought - do we have a moral duty to model appropriate behaviour for other dog owners?

 

[Michen]

I don't think that anyone should take a dog hacking with them. You can't get hold of the dog from on top of the horse - and no-one can guarantee their dog's behaviour under all circumstances, no matter how well trained it is. I hate to see dogs wandering along the side of the road yards behind a horse, whose rider can't possibly know exactly what the dog is doing. Of course if you ride on your own land, that is totally different.

Ah well, I very much enjoy taking my dog with me and she is trained to walk either in front or behind (if there’s a spooky thing to the horses ahead I prefer her to drop back) depending on where I need her to be. Mainly in front. I’m not sure why that would mean I don’t know what she’s doing, given I can always see her bar specific circumstances for her own safety.

Each to their own, I love taking the dog out with the horses

 

[Clodagh]

I used to love taking Sash out too, although her behaviour was often appalling. She was OK with cars though and stayed at the side of the road. We saw very few cars though, I'd be out by 7am on a weekend and a car was really rare.

 

[Clodagh]

Now that's an interesting thought - do we have a moral duty to model appropriate behaviour for other dog owners?

I put mine on a lead to reassure the farmer. Although actually they are grazing on one of our fields so I could tell him to deal. Do I do it so I am seen to be doing the right thing? Yes so I guess that extends to other walkers as well. At least if I ask them to put their dogs on a lead I am doing so myself. And the farmer has had trouble with dogs, he lost a ewe last year who drowned in the river when chased by another local's dog.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don’t recall anyone saying their dog thinks a lead is punishment!?

It's something that's been brought up by a couple of posters. All our dogs have been used to going on lead, so it's not something I've considered before, but I picked up on it.

 

[Michen]

I don't think that anyone should take a dog hacking with them. You can't get hold of the dog from on top of the horse - and no-one can guarantee their dog's behaviour under all circumstances, no matter how well trained it is. I hate to see dogs wandering along the side of the road yards behind a horse, whose rider can't possibly know exactly what the dog is doing. Of course if you ride on your own land, that is totally different.

A video from this eve of how my dog hacks with me. Not the best example! This is also the position (ish- prefer her a little further in front) she’s called to when other dogs/horses etc are coming the other way.

I also wouldn’t take a dog hacking with me that wasn’t 100% on the stop whistle and hand signal and that didn’t know left (so I can send her into the hedge to sit and wait if there’s a car.

Don’t assume all people who hack with their dogs have them running around behind them like lunatics!

https://youtube.com/shorts/hpLGWx4jbzA

 

[Sandstone1]

It very much depends where you live and what the roads are like. No way would I take my dogs with me. Its dangerous enough on the roads without worrying about dogs as well as traffic.
No animal, horse or dog can be 100% on the roads. There will always be the odd time that they do something unexpected.

 

[Michen]

It very much depends where you live and what the roads are like. No way would I take my dogs with me. Its dangerous enough on the roads without worrying about dogs as well as traffic.
No animal, horse or dog can be 100% on the roads. There will always be the odd time that they do something unexpected.

Agree, there are plenty of hacks I wouldn’t take my dog on! It depends entirely on the situation. And the dog. I’ve been very lucky with mine, she’s been incredibly easy to train. But I only know one other dog I would happily take out with me (a lab that I look after for chunks of the year) and it was her that set the example as to what I needed to ensure Pepper had before I could have her out with me.

It’s not for everyone, I totally get that, but I’ve put a huge amount of effort into having my dog do the things I need her to do to come out with the horses. As much effort as I have into training my horses on the roads. And she’s far more trustworthy ?

I was more referring to PaS point about dogs behind and out of sight. Which I completely agree with, but isn’t how all of us hack with our dogs.

 

[tallyho!]

Happened to be having chats with a few people in the community tonight... did a litter pick with them last week (p.s. The amount of dog poo in bags "carefully placed" by lamposts and gates is just unbelievable)

Back on topic. So the license was brought up and 100% agreed with although a couple said that these wouldn't stop the whole trained and controlled issue we see so widely in our parts. That is true I thought. Licenses only allow people to own a dog by paying a ransom (although it would pay me a fancy sum to pick up shit!) but not address the whole training issue. So there was chat about maybe there ought to be a certification....

1. raises funds for strays, wardens and rescues
2. raises awareness and education
3. raises responsibility levels
4. raises funds for policing

11 million dogs they reckon in the UK at that's the ones registered (2 million increase since 2019). Imagine the funds that could raise?

They ought to look into it with indiscriminate horse breeders too!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It very much depends where you live and what the roads are like. No way would I take, my dogs with me. Its dangerous enough on the roads without worrying about dogs as well as traffic.
No animal, horse or dog can be 100% on the roads. There will always be the odd time that they do something unexpected.

There is a by-law here that all dogs should b e on a lead on council owned property which includes roads and yet i see people hacking with a loose dog. The roads here are narrow and busy, definitely not safe for a dog which could do anything regardless of what the owner says. How any times have we all heard some numpty saying 'Oh he's never done that before'?

 

[Michen]

There is a by-law here that all dogs should b e on a lead on council owned property which includes roads and yet i see people hacking with a loose dog. The roads here are narrow and busy, definitely not safe for a dog which could do anything regardless of what the owner says. How any times have we all heard some numpty saying 'Oh he's never done that before'?

Oh dear ??

 

[Annette4]

I am sending my boy to one of you, 3 years and I have barely any recall around other dogs (which is why he is only off lead at privately rented paddocks or sports training). He's hand fed, he's getting to the point where he will engage with me to play frisbee/ball with other dogs on the park as long as they stay at a certain distance but he cannot handle the excitement of other dogs.

 

[planete]

I am sending my boy to one of you, 3 years and I have barely any recall around other dogs (which is why he is only off lead at privately rented paddocks or sports training). He's hand fed, he's getting to the point where he will engage with me to play frisbee/ball with other dogs on the park as long as they stay at a certain distance but he cannot handle the excitement of other dogs.

Don't worry, you are not alone. My ex-working lurchers are never off lead unless in a dog-proof area. It really depends on the dog, my Border Terrier I had from a pup always came with me hacking on the Forest and never put a foot wrong, he could even deal by himself with nuisance dogs and keep them away from the horse, but no training will turn my lurchers into the same kind of dog.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

A video from this eve of how my dog hacks with me. Not the best example! This is also the position (ish- prefer her a little further in front) she’s called to when other dogs/horses etc are coming the other way.

I also wouldn’t take a dog hacking with me that wasn’t 100% on the stop whistle and hand signal and that didn’t know left (so I can send her into the hedge to sit and wait if there’s a car.

Don’t assume all people who hack with their dogs have them running around behind them like lunatics!

https://youtube.com/shorts/hpLGWx4jbzA

I take mine out with me all the time. He wears a hi-viz when out. I’ve usually got more control of my dog from my horse than people have with theirs on the ground. I nearly always keep him ahead of me so that I can see what he’s doing. He’s very obedient and very sweet natured but there is a certain element of risk that something could go wrong but one that I’ve weighed up taking various things into consideration. Most of our hacks avoid sheep but if I come across any I usually get off and put on a lead. My spooky ginger horse will follow Chance almost anywhere but is a toad on his own.

https://imgur.com/e7gbwZR

 

[paddy555]

It very much depends where you live and what the roads are like. No way would I take my dogs with me. Its dangerous enough on the roads without worrying about dogs as well as traffic.
No animal, horse or dog can be 100% on the roads. There will always be the odd time that they do something unexpected.

no way would I take my dog riding. The roads are narrow, I am often squeezing past cars and tractors with inches to spare. I haven't got time to worry about if the dog is under the tractor wheels.
On an average ride I could well be riding through 50 or more loose sheep, cattle and ponies. Often I am riding down the single track road through half a dozen sheep or 20 cattle. My aim is to keep them as calm as possible so I can wind my way through them.
All of that is before I even think about the bikes overtaking and undertaking.

 

[YorksG]

Those who hack with their dogs, how do you remove the inevitable poo?

 

[DabDab]

I have a proper town dog who used to trot about town with me not on lead, always at heel (when we lived there). But I always have a lead with me and have far more cause to put her on lead when walking around the forest than in town. In the forest Lab and spaniel owners are quite honestly the bane of my life. They are almost never on lead and the owners see no need to recall them when I put mine on a lead and try to move out the way, they just continue to let them galavant around crashing through the undergrowth. I don't like labs near my dogs particularly. My parents dog was attacked by a couple 13 years ago while I was looking after him, they almost killed him and he lost a leg. They were a pair of labs that the owner hacked out with too - after the attack she took to putting a muzzle on one of them ?

 

[Sandstone1]

Those who hack with their dogs, how do you remove the inevitable poo?

Thats a very good question.

 

[Michen]

Those who hack with their dogs, how do you remove the inevitable poo?

Ha, I feed my dog on raw and she poos once a day in Bears stable in the morning. But otherwise yes- that would be an issue!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Those who hack with their dogs, how do you remove the inevitable poo?

I don’t need to where I ride but I do pick up lots of dog poo bags and other rubbish left by on foot dog walkers and others using the park. Today I walked one of my riding routes and took my loppers to cut down some overhanging branches. I also picked up 7 full nappy bags worth of litter including dog poo. I’ve picked up over 70 full poo bags in the same area over the past few weeks.

Today’s haul.

 

[Smitty]

There has been a suggestion on another group that it becomes compulsory for all dogs to have insurance, with different breeds having different category insurance based on risk of aggression. As it doesn't work with cars I see less reason for it to work with dogs.

As an avid freeads browser, I have seen an increasing number of cross breed pups for sale that could do some real damage and I'm sure they don't all go to responsible homes with owners prepared to train and take responsibility for them.

As for leads, well!! I have had encounters with owners of powerful on lead dogs who are merely being dragged about and I believe there was a small dog ripped apart by two on lead large dogs in the Cotswolds in the last few days. The owner was apparently as aggressive as the dogs ?.

 

[Arzada]

There has been a suggestion on another group that it becomes compulsory for all dogs to have insurance,

I can't think why anyone out in public wouldn't have appropriate 3rd party liability insurance. And at home if you don't have house insurance.

 

[Clodagh]

Those who hack with their dogs, how do you remove the inevitable poo?

I never used to hack where poo needed picking up. I now never walk where it needs doing either.

 

[Sandstone1]

I never used to hack where poo needed picking up. I now never walk where it needs doing either.

I think it needs picking up everywhere? I pick up on footpaths, bridleways, roads fields etc. It is a offence not to pick up. The only place you dont have to is on your own land. Even if not the law its a moral obligation surely? Nothing worse than owners who dont pick up.

 

[planete]

Until recently, we were told to flick it off the paths in the New Forest but the advice seems to have changed lately to picking it up. Again, I think it is to do with the sheer volume of dog walkers who now congregate here. This is a smaller issue than agression though.

 

[YorksG]

Until recently, we were told to flick it off the paths in the New Forest but the advice seems to have changed lately to picking it up. Again, I think it is to do with the sheer volume of dog walkers who now congregate here. This is a smaller issue than agression though.

I tend to disagree, very few dogs are people aggressive, they all produce poo!

 

[planete]

I tend to disagree, very few dogs are people aggressive, they all produce poo!

Well, Perhaps 'small' was the wrong word but i would rather deal with poo than teeth!

 

[Smitty]

I can't think why anyone out on public wouldn't have appropriate 3rd party liability insurance. And at home if you don't have house insurance.

And I can't think why anyone would drive an uninsured car but they do. And I think it safe to assume there are aggressive dogs out in public whose owners wouldn't consider insurance, and if it became compulsory, would still not bother.