AHAR Animal Heaven Animal Rescue Exposed.

ycbm said:
There is a substantial amount of money unaccounted for. That is why they have been told to get an accountant to account for where the money has gone. Do you have a connection to AHAR? Why are you picking on my posts when a TV program has said the same as I am and so have others on this forum?
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Chocolate moonbeam said:
This is a copy paste of the sanction imposed. Nowhere does it state an accountant has to be brought in to account for where the money has gone.

The notice, which was accepted by the organisation on the 16th January 2017, requires AHAR to:

Assign the responsibility of keeping proper books of account to a person(s) with the appropriate skills and experience.

Introduce periodic financial reporting setting out the income and expenditure (including the nature of that income and expenditure) and the assets and liabilities of the charity.

Ensure all financial reports are scrutinised by the charity trustees under a standing agenda item – ‘financial status of the charity’ during regular management committee meetings.

http://charitiesregulator.ie/en/CRA/Pages/WP17000001
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Chocolate moonbeam said:
I'm well aware of that, that is not my issue.

My issue is with people making accusations that haven't been made either by the CRA or by the RTE investigation.
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It is your issue, it isn't your issue, iirc you kept changing your mind about such things on the Hero thread too...
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
What. Are you suggesting that someone claiming half a million in funds is missing is not an accusation of something?
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There are about five hundred thousand pounds which have been spent where there is absolutely no record of where it has gone. I personally call that missing. The charity commission and RTE call it unaccounted for. It's the same thing. Do you think it's ok to take thirty grand a month of the public and be unable to explain where that's gone over several years?

I also note that they have been told to account for their assets, so there is a very large asset in the facilities where it is not accounted for in the books. So who owns it?

This standard of financial conduct is completely unacceptable. THAT is my accusation.
 
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Chocolate moonbeam said:
Clearly you didn't read it.

It stated cash withdrawals and donations of one million euros over two years
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It is past my bedtime :p
Which is all accounted for of course.....
TBH I don't care how much it is, it should all be accounted for whether it a tenner or half a million... that is part of being a responsible, well functioning charity.
 
ycbm said:
There are hundreds of thousands of pounds which have been spent where there is absolutely no record of where it has gone. I personally call that missing. The charity commission and RTE call it unaccounted for. It's the same thing. Do you think it's ok to take thirty grand a month of the public and be unable to explain where that's gone over several years?

I also note that they have been told to account for their assets, so there is a very large asset in the facilities where it is not accounted for in the books. So who owns it?

This standard of financial conduct is completely unacceptable. THAT is my accusation.
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Oh my god, are you reading something different to me.

"Introduce periodic financial reporting setting out the income and expenditure (including the nature of that income and expenditure) and the assets and liabilities of the charity".

That is not the same as saying these assets are unaccounted for.
 
If all items were properly accounted for would they have been placed under such measures? No? ergo not everything is accounted for surely?
 
ehh it actually is implying that... on this planet (maybe it doesn't happen on yours, im not sure) but the fact that they are being told to set out income and expenditure shows that this hasn't been the case thus far.
If the receipts and statements aren't there (which they are proven to not be) then the assets ARE unaccounted for

If everything was above board the charity regulator would have looked and gone 'good job, go on as you are'. They didn't.
 
ester said:
If all items were properly accounted for would they have been placed under such measures? No? ergo not everything is accounted for surely?
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Are you suggesting the CRA didn't audit the ahar books properly.

They have been sanctioned to keep proper books of account not accused of fraud.
 
ester said:
You read stuff really strangely sometimes.
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I'm reading this, not quite sure what you are reading.

Assign the responsibility of keeping proper books of account to a person(s) with the appropriate skills and experience.

Introduce periodic financial reporting setting out the income and expenditure (including the nature of that income and expenditure) and the assets and liabilities of the charity.

Ensure all financial reports are scrutinised by the charity trustees under a standing agenda item – ‘financial status of the charity’ during regular management committee meetings.
 
ester said:
I meant my post, which made no such suggestion that you seem to think it did...
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Your post seems to suggest the CRA found money missing, the CRA don't seem to have stated this, only that they need to bring in someone with the appropriate skills and experience to do the books (what does that say about previous treasurers) hence my belief that you must think the CRA didn't do a proper audit.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Are you suggesting the CRA didn't audit the ahar books properly.

They have been sanctioned to keep proper books of account not accused of fraud.
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actually they HAVE been accused of an offence and served notice. if they dont comply then

"Failure to comply with this order will result the Charities Regulator bringing a prosecution against AHAR and may take steps to temporarily removing them from the Register of Charities, until such a time that we are satisfied that they meet their legal requirements."

You have a bizarre way of cherry picking what points you actually pull out of text at times

they are at risk of prosectution when their stuff is checked again, they are being given time to get their act together
 
paddi22 said:
actually they HAVE been accused of an offence and served notice. if they dont comply then

"Failure to comply with this order will result the Charities Regulator bringing a prosecution against AHAR and may take steps to temporarily removing them from the Register of Charities, until such a time that we are satisfied that they meet their legal requirements."

You have a bizarre way of cherry picking what points you actually pull out of text at times

they are at risk of prosectution when their stuff is checked again, they are being given time to get their act together
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They have been accused of not keeping proper books of account in accordance with the CRA regulations, they have not been accused of misappropriating funds.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Your post seems to suggest the CRA found money missing, the CRA don't seem to have stated this, only that they need to bring in someone with the appropriate skills and experience to do the books (what does that say about previous treasurers) hence my belief that you must think the CRA didn't do a proper audit.
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your belief, not my suggestion at all.

If the books were fine they wouldn't have been told they have to bring someone qualified in, as there would be nothing for them to do. and yes, as paddi says they have been served notice regarding not keeping proper accounts.

If someone has suggested misappropriation of funds I missed it, they have suggested not everything is accounted for, not that it has been funnelled somewhere else.
 
I'm delighted they are finally coming under proper scrutiny and it's probably largely because there have been a spate of scandals here involving similar lax - non existent - accounting systems in charities.

The scandal of last summer was suicide prevention charity Console. A massive national charity and another personal fiefdom run by a charismatic founder. Millions in yearly donations and his own family living off it through credit cards, five star hotels, even 20,000 spent on an eventer - out of charity funds!

It was only when he was getting a People of the Year award that people at home watching on TV recognised him from a previous scam he ran posing as another person!

I'm sorry but buying healthy dogs and horses at fairs - early in the day - is not animal rescue. I know a trotting fellow from a criminal family that she wanted to give horses to. They would have met one of two ends. Impounded and pts or brutally killed as part of the feud his family is involved in.

I hope ahar becomes at the very least tightly regulated and I'll bet if it does she'll throw in the towel. im just astounded they got a million in donations over two years. That definitely needs regulating and accounting for. All those animals are at her mercy. Reading the post where it was copy and pasted about the dead donkeys, dead dogs - it's horrific.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Your post seems to suggest the CRA found money missing, the CRA don't seem to have stated this, only that they need to bring in someone with the appropriate skills and experience to do the books (what does that say about previous treasurers) hence my belief that you must think the CRA didn't do a proper audit.
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you seem very quick to blame the treasurer, and not, instead, the person who took the money out of atms and spent it without receipts. Who would have known everything needs a paper trail if its to be above board. The same person who is above the treasurer in position and who didn't notice the odd million missing lol! I think the treasurer didn't do their job, but there was someone above them doing a worse job. And its ****** to pass the blam down the line when it lies at the top.
 
ester said:
your belief, not my suggestion at all.

If the books were fine they wouldn't have been told they have to bring someone qualified in, as there would be nothing for them to do. and yes, as paddi says they have been served notice regarding not keeping proper accounts.

If someone has suggested misappropriation of funds I missed it, they have suggested not everything is accounted for, not that it has been funnelled somewhere else.
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You really don't think that someone suggesting half a million euro is missing is not suggesting it has been funnelled somewhere else?

Come on, you can read can't you. There have been accusations of fraud, theft, missing monies all over the net since these sanctions were imposed.
 
paddi22 said:
you seem very quick to blame the treasurer, and not, instead, the person who took the money out of atms and spent it without receipts. Who would have known everything needs a paper trail if its to be above board. The same person who is above the treasurer in position and who didn't notice the odd million missing lol! I think the treasurer didn't do their job, but there was someone above them doing a worse job. And its ****** to pass the blam down the line when it lies at the top.
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I would suggest the buck stops with the treasurer where the books are concerned.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Oh my god, are you reading something different to me.

"Introduce periodic financial reporting setting out the income and expenditure (including the nature of that income and expenditure) and the assets and liabilities of the charity".

That is not the same as saying these assets are unaccounted for.
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Ummm, yes, actually, it is.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
I would suggest the buck stops with the treasurer where the books are concerned.
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No. In any committee it is the chairperson who is in charge of co-ordinating the volunteers and monitoring everyone does their job. You can't just pass blame down the chain, the buck stops with the chairperson. The person withdrawing cash willy nilly from atms would have been completely aware of the fact that she needed to keep receipts. Financial statements in our club are passed by the entire committee at our annual agm and examined. That should have happened in AHAR and the fact it didn't is down to lax governance at the top.

A charity receiving that much cash needs to be professional, there is NO excuse. The person at the top is in charge of this.
 
paddi22 said:
ehh it actually is implying that... on this planet (maybe it doesn't happen on yours, im not sure) but the fact that they are being told to set out income and expenditure shows that this hasn't been the case thus far.
If the receipts and statements aren't there (which they are proven to not be) then the assets ARE unaccounted for

If everything was above board the charity regulator would have looked and gone 'good job, go on as you are'. They didn't.
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Exactly.
 
Dave's Mam said:
Again, I will point out that the poster has previously been very pro AHAR. Connection?
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Absolutely, does appear that this may be the reason the dubious practises have gone on so long if they are representative of the AHAR supporters.

The really sad part of all this is other, more transparent charities, will probably be affected as a result which will ultimately mean more animals will suffer because of the selfish attitude of one person.
 
Speaking as a Chartered Accountant with extensive audit experience that wording basically means that the books are in such a complete mess that no one can tell what going on. In my experience that is rarely "accidental". Obviously I have no direct knowledge of this one but I would be pushing my concerns right up to the most senior partner as the only times I came across this there was fraud going on. Of course it could be one of the rare cases of complete incompetence but the red flags are waving and the alarm bells are ringing loud.
 
Being as the ONLY posts 'chocolate moonbeam' has ever written on HHO have been on threads about AHAR, defending them, I would like to know the connection. Be honest chocolate moonbeam- do you have a connection with AHAR or their manager?
Its easy to hide anonymously behind a name.......
 
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