AHAR Animal Heaven Animal Rescue Exposed.

Chocolate moonbeam said:
It states they have found no serious welfare issues. Any issues that have been found such as the lack of a map to some rented grazing have obviously been dealt with satisfactorily and been closed down.
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I suppose its down to the interpretation of serious. Any welfare issues at such a charity to some maybe a shock ! Hopefully its days are numbered as it does nothing for equine welfare IMHO and is merely a clever scam!
 
popsdosh said:
I suppose its down to the interpretation of serious. Any welfare issues at such a charity to some maybe a shock ! Hopefully its days are numbered as it does nothing for equine welfare IMHO and is merely a clever scam!
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Or perhaps calling it a welfare notice is a misnomer as it implies a serious lack of care which may not actually be the case as in the welfare notice for said map.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
Or perhaps calling it a welfare notice is a misnomer as it implies a serious lack of care which may not actually be the case as in the welfare notice for said map.
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The letter is very carefully worded as im sure you are aware it only actually states that the two most recent visits in 2017 have not shown up any serious welfare issues it doesn't actually comment on the ones before just to mention there are no outstanding serious issues which suggests to me there were serious issues that may have gone away for whatever reason.
 
popsdosh said:
The letter is very carefully worded as im sure you are aware it only actually states that the two most recent visits in 2017 have not shown up any serious welfare issues it doesn't actually comment on the ones before just to mention there are no outstanding serious issues which suggests to me there were serious issues that may have gone away for whatever reason.
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The letter did not clarify the full extent of the inspections or notices served for some very odd reason. Unless it was the way the request for information was worded to receive a reply with the mininal information swayed in one direction to favour AHAR and their supporters and to distract from the RTE programe. Because the letter omitted the following:-
1 Animal Health & Welfare notice to cease transport of live animals 8/31/2016
2 Animal Health & Welfare notice to limit intake to 20 equines 5/26/2016
3 Animal Health & Welfare notice to seek veterinary attention for 3 equines. 4/13/2016
4 Animal Health & Welfare notice to stop taking in equines & provide maps 4/13/2016
5 Animal Health & Welfare notice to seek veterinary attention for 2 sheep on holding. 4/8/2016 1
6 Aninal Health & Welfare notice to cease use of a dog transporter as a kennel. 4/8/2016 1
7 Aninal Health & Welfare notice to reduce equine numbers to 60 by 30/4/2016 & the number of canines on the holding to 45. 4/8/2016 1
8 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 303116 8/31/2016
9 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 302484 8/23/2016
10 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 301990 8/16/2016
11 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 301931 8/15/2016
12 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 300627 7/26/2016
13 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 296436 6/10/2016
14 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 288039 5/5/2016 5
15 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 286788 4/26/2016
16 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 286787 4/20/2016
17 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 286039 4/13/2016
18 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 285301 4/8/2016 5
19 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 284084 4/1/2016 5
20 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 283582 3/23/2016
21 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 283581 3/11/2016
22 Animal Welfare At Risk Herd Report Form AW5 280750 2/9/2016 5
23 Veterinary Inspection Report 264965 11/3/2015
 
Chocolate moonbeam, whether there were or were not (and there obviously were, from that letter) welfare concerns, that does not negate the fact that the issues raised in the Clare Byrne report re accounts, bookkeeping etc are true.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
If there were welfare issues why is the place still operating?
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I have not commented before on this matter, although I have been following the behaviour of this so called rescue since it's time up in the bog. I do not go on facebook, which is where most of the action seems to take place, because I will not be dragged into the petty slanging matches that go on.
I can tell you that anyone who says there are no welfare concerns about AHAR only has to go to their own page on Facebook and read some of their own posts.
Then we have the recent exposure, 16 year old dog dies on the table and is brought back. Failure number one by the vet. The dog is then transported to a foster/new owner with very sparse information at best. Even the video that is floating around, clearly shows an old dog, in very poor condition, coming to the end of his time.
Then we have the 6 emaciated horses that shipped to the UK, again I question which vet would sign health certs for transport... so a failure by the vet again. There is also word of 2 foals shipped to Scotland with strangles, to novice owners, with little or no experience of horses of any kind.
Then we have the Two Shetlands that featured in the The Sunday Mail article. I question firstly, how any vet could pass these animals fit to travel. Then I question how any Rescue could possibly think it was ok to send them on such a harrowing journey, in such a poor state. But what I question more than anything else is why, people who say they are animal lovers are alright with any of this.
Forget the unaccounted for money,
Forget the lies about the Manager Ms. Gibbons not being paid.
Animals are neglected, dying, and by some reports abused under Ms. Gibbons watch and authority, yet people seem to be somewhat overlooking that.
For any animal welfare organisation to get 20 odd Animal Welfare notices of different types, clearly there is a huge issue.
I will tell you also that the department are refusing FOI request for information under section 15. for fear the information is vexatious and may be posted on facebook. As it should be public knowledge freely available this points to officials in the department actual covering up for AHAR. (That is a quote to a request I personally put in.)
Now after all the evidence that has come to light as part of the official record, how anyone can defend any part of AHAR is beyond me.
 
Alright, enough of the histrionics. This is precisely why I have commented on this post in the first place; there are better rescues than AHAR, there are also much worse places. I have a dog which I adopted from AHAR as do several friends of mine, I have been there twice. It is clean, orderly, relatively well organised and the proceedures involved in obtaining my dog were all in place. I have no doubt that there are irregularities, but claims of deliberate fraud, cruelty and outright serious neglect do not chime with what I have seen with my own eyes. To accuse veterinary surgeons of fraud is a very serious matter and one which I am sure they and their regulatory body will be pleased to refute.

Claims, without actual facts, are just that, and to judge by what I have seen hurled about in reference to this particular rescue, there are some people with a dedicated agenda at work - and fertile imaginations.
 
Cortez said:
Claims, without actual facts, are just that, and to judge by what I have seen hurled about in reference to this particular rescue, there are some people with a dedicated agenda at work - and fertile imaginations.
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What is not factual about
2 dead Ponies after they were transported to the UK
or
The 20+ Animal Welfare notices.
Even their own ex-admins have stated on public record that you don't see the problems until you are accepted into the inner circle and have been there a while.
Also why not let us address the crippled horse who was found on the golf course in Limerick. After AHAR Fund raised for her treatment. Almost a year later she was found UNTREATED on the gold course with other emaciated horses. She was returned to AHAR and then vanished.
How can you close your eyes to this.
As to the vet that signed the health certs, I have already lodged a complaint.
 
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I don't have to close my eyes; unlike the vast majority of people who have commented on this and other threads I have actually seen the place with my own eyes. I did not see any of the things at AHAR that have been claimed, therefore I am awaiting factual evidence in order to form an opinion. I have seen the video of Hero, the condition is UNTREATABLE, and IMO he/she should have been euthanised immediately, and I would hope that that is what was, belatedly, done with him/her. Animal Welfare notices are regularly issued to animal holding facilities, and once they are complied with then they have done their job - our local mart has been given multiple notices to clean out the cattle pens, 10 - 15 I think over a couple of years, but it's not a den of cruelty and abuse.

There are a lot of claims flying about, there are people with an agenda. How do any of us know the true circumstances? I could claim that my dog was beaten and mutilated at AHAR, but it wouldn't be true just because I said it. All of this latest swirl of controvesy was created by a TV program; I work in the media and know how very simple it is to create something out of very little - as I feel was done in the program. Essentially they have been taken to task over crap book keeping and have undertaken to remedy this. I think everyone should calm down.
 
Do you not think it is a welfare issue that hero was not euthanised and her condition managed if not treated over the course of a year if they decided not to euth? - I'd like to have seen a video of her after the farrier to decide if any improvement/management was possible or not and if the latter the right decision made by a responsible rescue. As much as anything there complete lack of real response when that situation came out is the sort of thing that makes me think maybe people are right to be concerned.
 
RoseMc said:
I have not commented before on this matter, although I have been following the behaviour of this so called rescue since it's time up in the bog. I do not go on facebook, which is where most of the action seems to take place, because I will not be dragged into the petty slanging matches that go on.
I can tell you that anyone who says there are no welfare concerns about AHAR only has to go to their own page on Facebook and read some of their own posts.
Then we have the recent exposure, 16 year old dog dies on the table and is brought back. Failure number one by the vet. The dog is then transported to a foster/new owner with very sparse information at best. Even the video that is floating around, clearly shows an old dog, in very poor condition, coming to the end of his time.
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Sparse information? A conversation with a vet to ensure she was happy to take on an elderly dog with health issues, information relating to his diet and care was supposed to be passed onto the new owner via the person responsible for rehoming animals at the time and yes, a video of a dog who was supposedly in very bad shape and unable to get about, taken just one day before he was put to sleep showing him very well able to get about.

Then we have the 6 emaciated horses that shipped to the UK, again I question which vet would sign health certs for transport... so a failure by the vet again. There is also word of 2 foals shipped to Scotland with strangles, to novice owners, with little or no experience of horses of any kind.
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The 6 emaciated horses that the lady in question actually went and hand picked from AHAR you mean and as for the strangles, well there doesn't appear to be strangles at AHAR judging by the equines that have gone up on the page for rehoming in the past 24 hours.

Then we have the Two Shetlands that featured in the The Sunday Mail article. I question firstly, how any vet could pass these animals fit to travel. Then I question how any Rescue could possibly think it was ok to send them on such a harrowing journey, in such a poor state. But what I question more than anything else is why, people who say they are animal lovers are alright with any of this.
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I would question why the adopter would remove specialist shoes from laminitic animals. She didn't even appear to know what they were calling them 'weird shoes' which immediately got removed. I wonder what harm that did to the pony.


Forget the unaccounted for money,
Forget the lies about the Manager Ms. Gibbons not being paid.
Animals are neglected, dying, and by some reports abused under Ms. Gibbons watch and authority, yet people seem to be somewhat overlooking that.
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Well, all I can say is that the DAFM don't seem to hold the same view about neglect or abuse otherwise I do believe they would shut her down, something you seem to be overlooking.

For any animal welfare organisation to get 20 odd Animal Welfare notices of different types, clearly there is a huge issue.
I will tell you also that the department are refusing FOI request for information under section 15. for fear the information is vexatious and may be posted on facebook. As it should be public knowledge freely available this points to officials in the department actual covering up for AHAR. (That is a quote to a request I personally put in.)
Now after all the evidence that has come to light as part of the official record, how anyone can defend any part of AHAR is beyond me.
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20 odd animal welfare notices? Are you referring to that rather odd looking list posted a bit further back for which most of the entries have absolutely no meaning.
 
Cortez, just out of curiosity did you get a full tour of the place? and was it an expected visit?

If, for example, a chinese restaurant had had multiple official warning notices, and kept its kitchens hidden and was accused of bad food practices and hygiene. And a lot of people were getting sick from it, and this was proven. And people who used to work there were going to the authorities to warn them. I don't think it works to say 'well i had a meal there and it was fine and the counter at the front looked fine to me" . There is obviously a serious issue that is going on years. There is no other charity that gets the bad attention they do, and its for a reason. Their own photography on their own site damns them enough times.
 
paddi22 said:
The fact that a charity would LET a stranger just come and 'handpick' 6 emaciated horses says it all really...
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Depends on the purpose. As I understood it, that purpose was to rehabilitate them. Do you have an issue with rescue horses being rehabilitated by the person adopting them if they so choose to do so?
 
I have an issue with a rescue releasing horses to someone and then claiming the person is unsuitable/neglectful. they obviously didn't do their homechecks.
 
paddi22 said:
I have an issue with a rescue releasing horses to someone and then claiming the person is unsuitable/neglectful. they obviously didn't do their homechecks.
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Actually, as I recall it was the person who took the horses who did the complaining. That very same person who sent images of the horses to AHAR to show how well they were doing.
 
I do work with a rescue and never NOT EVEN ONCE has an animal died in an unnatural short timeframe with an owner. And never once has the charity been on complaining about someone they rehomed to, because
a. they rehome healthy animals in good condition
b. they homecheck properly and release animals to people who has the funds/experience to care for those animals

This is proven NOT to be the case with AHAR, with multiple people coming forward with awful stories. I have no axe to grind with AHAR, I wish they were run properly as rescue animals need as much help as they can get. But at some stage you have to admit that if there's that much smoke, then there's a fire somewhere
 
paddi22 said:
I do work with a rescue and never NOT EVEN ONCE has an animal died in an unnatural short timeframe with an owner. And never once has the charity been on complaining about someone they rehomed to, because
a. they rehome healthy animals in good condition
b. they homecheck properly and release animals to people who has the funds/experience to care for those animals

This is proven NOT to be the case with AHAR, with multiple people coming forward with awful stories. I have no axe to grind with AHAR, I wish they were run properly as rescue animals need as much help as they can get. But at some stage you have to admit that if there's that much smoke, then there's a fire somewhere
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You could have fooled me.
 
I just find it frustrating that gullible people are donating money that just disappears into the ether and is used to encourage puppy farmers to breed more litters to sell at fairs. Keep horses crippled and lame and have them just disappear (i feel sick thinking about that poor hero horse). The irish horse world is very very small and i've yet to meet anyone reputable who has a good word to say about the charity. I've come across ex suppliers who were blackmailed. Transporters who were landed with undocumented horses and then had to scramble to sort the paperwork out themselves. Factory workers who saw her swop healthy horses for bone thin ones in the factory and couldn't do anything about it because it's not technically illegal. Just time and again so much stuff, and its upseting to think she has manipulated people to donate cash.

And i've gotten animals and helped out with a few charities, and absolutely non have the same drama, the arguements with 'haters', anything. They just run as normal charities.
 
paddi22 said:
I just find it frustrating that gullible people are donating money that just disappears into the ether and is used to encourage puppy farmers to breed more litters to sell at fairs. Keep horses crippled and lame and have them just disappear (i feel sick thinking about that poor hero horse). The irish horse world is very very small and i've yet to meet anyone reputable who has a good word to say about the charity. I've come across ex suppliers who were blackmailed. Transporters who were landed with undocumented horses and then had to scramble to sort the paperwork out themselves. Factory workers who saw her swop healthy horses for bone thin ones in the factory and couldn't do anything about it because it's not technically illegal. Just time and again so much stuff, and its upseting to think she has manipulated people to donate cash.

And i've gotten animals and helped out with a few charities, and absolutely non have the same drama, the arguements with 'haters', anything. They just run as normal charities.
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I hope you have proof of this because claims like this without proof leave you skating on thin ice.
 
yep i do, and most of the people involved are more than happy to rant away to anyone who asks them, and most have already. But it's easy to write off as haters i suppose
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
I believe that list is part of an official DAFM excel sheet, that was part of a response, mistakenly included in an FOI information refusal ;)

You seem very good at twisting situations to suit your/ AHAR's agenda. I have to wonder when you will stand up for the animals, because as of now you are showing yourself to be as bad as Gibbons.... uncaring and full of excuses.
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