AHAR Animal Heaven Animal Rescue Exposed.

RoseMc said:
I believe that list is part of an official DAFM excel sheet, that was part of a response, mistakenly included in an FOI information refusal ;)

You seem very good at twisting situations to suit your/ AHAR's agenda. I have to wonder when you will stand up for the animals, because as of now you are showing yourself to be as bad as Gibbons.... uncaring and full of excuses.
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With the dates written in an American format?
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
With the dates written in an American format?
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Had not noticed TBH, I have seen a copy of the original refusal with 2 attachments, one of which is the excel sheet I mentioned, the dates look normal on that, first date being 31/8/16.
You seem very hung up on what I would consider to be minor details while entirely avoiding the major issue, which is the on going poor practices and animal welfare at AHAR.
Why is that?
 
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I would question why the adopter would remove specialist shoes from laminitic animals. She didn't even appear to know what they were calling them 'weird shoes' which immediately got removed. I wonder what harm that did to the pony.
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I'm astonished that you think this is a defence of AHAR, Chocolate Moonbeam. How on earth could they rehome a severe laminitic to people like that?

I think it is time that you told us whether you are simply a supporter, an employee, our what else your connection is with AHAR.

I ask because if you are someone who has been obtaining money from them, legally or illegally, that would change the picture totally. We know Cortez well and she has made her points well. But for all we know, you are the knackerman laughing all the way to the bank from the horses that you sell to them.
 
They shouldn't be rehoming active laminitics to anyone
They shouldn't be rehoming emaciated horses to anyone
They should be doing as any reputable rescue would be doing which is treating and rehabilitating before an animal goes out the door so that it is sent with best chance. However it seems they prefer to play a numbers game of how many they can get through rather than best practice,
 
RoseMc said:
Had not noticed TBH, I have seen a copy of the original refusal with 2 attachments, one of which is the excel sheet I mentioned, the dates look normal on that, first date being 31/8/16.
You seem very hung up on what I would consider to be minor details while entirely avoiding the major issue, which is the on going poor practices and animal welfare at AHAR.
Why is that?
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Yes, i'm sure you have. Slight coincidence that this list appeared within a few hours of the DAFM letter being put up on the AHAR facebook page though. You couldn't make it up...or could you :)
 
ycbm said:
I'm astonished that you think this is a defence of AHAR, Chocolate Moonbeam. How on earth could they rehome a severe laminitic to people like that?

I think it is time that you told us whether you are simply a supporter, an employee, our what else your connection is with AHAR.

I ask because if you are someone who has been obtaining money from them, legally or illegally, that would change the picture totally. We know Cortez well and she has made her points well. But for all we know, you are the knackerman laughing all the way to the bank from the horses that you sell to them.
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People like what? People who claim to have 20 years experience with rescue animals?

As for the rest of your post, whether I have or do not have any connection with AHAR is none of your business. This is not a court of law, it's a free to join forum, a forum which provided my posts do not break the rules i am also free to post my opinion.
 
It matters not one jot how many years experience they claimed they had or even if they actually had. They shouldn't have left ahar until treatment was concluded and they were fully rehabbed.
 
ester said:
It matters not one jot how many years experience they claimed they had or even if they actually had. They shouldn't have left ahar until treatment was concluded and they were fully rehabbed.
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As I said, that depends on whether the people taking the animals are happy to do so.

No one actually forced this sanctuary to take those animals.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
People like what? People who claim to have 20 years experience with rescue animals?

As for the rest of your post, whether I have or do not have any connection with AHAR is none of your business. This is not a court of law, it's a free to join forum, a forum which provided my posts do not break the rules i am also free to post my opinion.
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As you say, you are free to post your opinions. Just as I am free to post my questions. And in the light of this answer I think it's more likely that you are the owner, or a close connection, or a knackerman making a killing by not killing, than anyone else. I will downgrade how much notice I take of your defence of AHAR accordingly until I know different.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
As I said, that depends on whether the people taking the animals are happy to do so.

No one actually forced this sanctuary to take those animals.
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No it doesn't and it shouldn't! It is not in the animals best interests to leave until it is treated and rehabbed regardless whether someone is happy to take them or not! Tell me of another reputable charity that would do that?
 
ycbm said:
As you say, you are free to post your opinions. Just as I am free to post my questions. And in the light of this answer I think it's more likely that you are the owner, or a close connection, or a knackerman making a killing by not killing, than anyone else. I will downgrade how much notice I take of your defence of AHAR accordingly until I know different.
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You can think what you like, it's still none of your business.

You are free to comment on or ignore my posts as much as you like, it makes no odds to me.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
As I said, that depends on whether the people taking the animals are happy to do so.

No one actually forced this sanctuary to take those animals.
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I'm happy to take six thin horses from you, can you send them over in March? I will use the summer to let them get fat on my grass that I don't need, and then take them to the abattoir to be paid by the kilo for their carcasses.

One of the problems, the many problems, with AHAR seems to be that you would have no idea whether I was that person or a genuine horse lover.

Indeed, you seem to be perfectly happy to rehome any horse with anyone who is happy to have it, suitable horse/suitable home or not :(
 
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ester said:
No it doesn't and it shouldn't! It is not in the animals best interests to leave until it is treated and rehabbed regardless whether someone is happy to take them or not! Tell me of another reputable charity that would do that?
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The fact that the pony had specialist shoes on is evidence the animal was being treated.

Neither you nor i knows what correspondence on information given there was between AHAR and the sanctuary in question relating to the ponies ongoing care.
 
ycbm said:
I'm happy to take six thin horses from you, can you send them over in March? I will use the summer to let them get fat on my grass that I don't need, and then take them to the abattoir to be paid by the kilo for their carcasses.

One of the problems, the many problems, with AHAR seems to be that you would have no idea whether I was that person or a genuine horse lover.

Indeed, you seem to be perfectly happy to rehome any horse with anyone who is happy to have it, suitable horse our suitable home or not :(
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If that were the case then I would suggest that it is the adopter at fault for misleading AHAR into believing they had the animals best interests at heart and had the knowledge to care or them properly.
 
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Was being treated

Treatment was not concluded that is the entire basis of my point :rolleyes3:

I don't care about any correspondence, anyone can call themselves a sanctuary etc and anyone can tell you what they like about their experience. - as you have highlighted about the fact that shoes were misunderstood and removed. An animal currently undergoing treatment for an acute condition should not be leaving until treatment has been completed. I don't see why that would be so complicated for anyone to get their head round or why that would not seem to be good practice in the best interests of the animal when running a rescue?- where surely the whole point of running a rescue is to do the best for an animal?
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
If that were the case then I would suggest that it is the adopter at fault for misleading AHAR into believing they had the animals best interests at heart and had the knowledge to care or them properly.
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And ahar has no responsibility for checking what people tell them? Surely they know people can be amazing at spiel? If they cannot sufficiently check surely that is just more evidence that vulnerable animals should not be leaving them while still in acute circumstances?
 
ester said:
Was being treated

Treatment was not concluded that is the entire basis of my point :rolleyes3:

I don't care about any correspondence, anyone can call themselves a sanctuary etc and anyone can tell you what they like about their experience. - as you have highlighted about the fact that shoes were misunderstood and removed. An animal currently undergoing treatment for an acute condition should not be leaving until treatment has been completed. I don't see why that would be so complicated for anyone to get their head round or why that would not seem to be good practice in the best interests of the animal when running a rescue?- where surely the whole point of running a rescue is to do the best for an animal?
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Rescues rehome animals with ongoing health conditions all the time.
 
ester said:
And ahar has no responsibility for checking what people tell them? Surely they know people can be amazing at spiel? If they cannot sufficiently check surely that is just more evidence that vulnerable animals should not be leaving them while still in acute circumstances?
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What do you suggest, that someone goes and lives with them for a few months to assess their ability to care for an animal?

There is only so much any animal rescue centre can do to determine an adopters suitability to take on an animal.
 
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Chocolate moonbeam said:
If that were the case then I would suggest that it is the adopter at fault for misleading AHAR into believing they had the animals best interests at heart and had the knowledge to care or them properly.
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Other charities do home checks and follow ups. Why don't AHAR? You don't seem to give a damn what happens to your animals after you have passed them on? That's one of the big problems, it seems, and animals are being caused further suffering because of it.
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
What do you suggest, that someone goes and lives with them for a few months to assess their ability to care for an animal?

There is only so much any animal rescue centre can do to determine an adopters suitability to take on an animal.
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That's the point there is only so much you can do so vulnerable animals with ACUTE conditions should not be leaving.

Though I would be interested If they had visited and taken veterinary references
 
Chocolate moonbeam said:
There is only so much any animal rescue centre can do to determine an adopters suitability to take on an animal.
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Do AHAR do any of it? Home checks, follow ups, references, or do they just chuck a horse into a lorry, (often to England it seems though heaven knows why as we have enough horses here needing homes - why put one down in this country and transport one in from overseas?) and wave bye bye?
 
ycbm said:
Do AHAR do any of it? Home checks, follow ups, references, or do they just chuck a horse into a lorry, (often to England it seems though heaven knows why as we have enough horses here needing homes - why put one down in this country and transport one in from overseas?) and wave bye bye?
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I guess it depends who you believe when reading accounts of people who have adopted from there.
 
You can have chronic lami with acute episode they are not mutually exclusive. if the pony is in pain and requiring specialist shoeing it is having an acute episode.
 
ycbm said:
Do AHAR do any of it? Home checks, follow ups, references, or do they just chuck a horse into a lorry, (often to England it seems though heaven knows why as we have enough horses here needing homes - why put one down in this country and transport one in from overseas?) and wave bye bye?
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Absolutely this.

I am an approved foster home for equines for the RSPCA. I had initial interviews at the rescue centre, was supervised whilst I interacted with my chosen foster fillies, and then had a thorough home check. The foster ponies come with a full veterinary and behavioural assessment. There is much back up and interim checks. They know which animals tend to suit me (I'm good at getting the shy, nervous ones to settle and grow in confidence).

None of which seem to happen at AHAR.
 
ester said:
You can have chronic lami with acute episode they are not mutually exclusive. if the pony is in pain and requiring specialist shoeing it is having an acute episode.
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This seems to disagree with you and it's not the only article that does.

Going from Acute to Chronic

Veterinarians consider laminitis to be in the acute stage when it first develops. They generally consider the disease to be chronic when the coffin bone has displaced or rotated within the hoof capsule, says Belknap.

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/33392/managing-chronic-laminitis
 
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