All horses need extra vitamins?

Ceifer said:
I know that person is essentially like Voldemort (don’t speak of them). But seeing yet another post about clients bad news but here’s a picture of me makes me want to vomit 🙄
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I try to avoid her but she's so local to us that her posts get shared everywhere on local FB pages.

The bit that gets me the most is the fact she puts out this idea that she does it all her self as a 'home producer' type yet she's sponsored by every Tom, Dick and Harry - oh yeah and mummy does most of the heavy lifting. Obviously this opinion comes from an Honest Home Producer who funds everything herself and can't afford flashy facilities. Oh but I can drive myself to competitions unlike some 🤣
 
I don't know where this was but there is at least one independent nutritionist who takes this view and recommends a variety of companies.

I've tested a few fields at different yards, they've all been seriously lacking or very high in different minerals.

With blood tests, horses compensate for minerals that are lacking and it takes a while to show in the blood.

In the wild horses would range over a wide area, they would not be on a couple of acres no matter how good or eating hay that comes from one or two fields next to each other so it's not a fair comparison.
 
criso said:
I don't know where this was but there is at least one independent nutritionist who takes this view and recommends a variety of companies.

I've tested a few fields at different yards, they've all been seriously lacking or very high in different minerals.

With blood tests, horses compensate for minerals that are lacking and it takes a while to show in the blood.

In the wild horses would range over a wide area, they would not be on a couple of acres no matter how good or eating hay that comes from one or two fields next to each other so it's not a fair comparison.
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Horses in the "wild" also die all the time. They aren't living a nice field sound retirement till they're 25.
 
dorsetladette said:
Sorry I need to correct myself! The sponsor promo post was a couple posts earlier to the 'everything needs vits and mins' post, but within the same 24hr window.
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Went for a nosey. There are a few things here I'd say they need to be careful about. If they are sponsored by the brand/product, under ASA standards they need to be declaring on any posts promoting the products that it is an advert, so they should be clearly labelled with #Ad of "Paid Partnership" on the post. This is regardless if you "would have used the product anyway", if you have any professional connection with the brand you must declare it is an advert for their products or it's considered deceptive omission, end of. Secondly, any statements like "ALL" or "NEVER" are very dodgy territory, they're considered what we call 'absolute terms', so you have to legally be able to either prove or disprove them in order to make them. As you cannot scientifically prove that every blade of grass in the UK is deficient for every specific horse, that would be considered a misleading claim under CAP. The other thing I'd be wary of is the suggestion that a lack of supplements causes "cumulative damage" - this is a medical claim. Making medical claims for non-medicinal products like supplements is strictly regulated, though you could perhaps say there is a loophole as no specific product was mentioned in the post. I'd be surprised nobody has reported this to ASA yet as they're normally pretty hot on clamping down on influencers posting misleading information and not declaring ads - it's rife with all these sponsorship deals brands dish out these days.
 
TheMule said:
As do many domesticated horses, no matter how many balancers their owners shovel into them. They die of colic, laminitis, infection, injury, cancer etc etc
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Yeah and people do a lot to prevent those things. Preventing a vitamin or mineral deficiency is another thing you can do to potentially improve health and longevity.

The "oh but whatever do WILD horses do" eyeroll is facile. 90% of the time the answer is die.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
I saw the original post on FB and it said that every horse should have a daily balancer! but how do you know what they're lacking in? a daily balance is generic and might in fact give the horse more of what they don't need! its like saying that everyone should take a multi vitamin! but unless you know what is lacking in the diet, surely a daily balancer or vitamin is almost useless
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I'd not say useless. Just there is no way of telling how useful it actually is. It will be somewhere on a scale from barely to very - but without knowing the deficiencies, if any, who knows.

I think most people tend to feed a generic balancer on a 'just in case' basis - which is fine, it might be helpful, but worst case is you are spending money on stuff to pass straight though and go on the muck heap. Which is annoying financially, but not detrimental from a welfare perspective.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
I saw the original post on FB and it said that every horse should have a daily balancer! but how do you know what they're lacking in? a daily balance is generic and might in fact give the horse more of what they don't need! its like saying that everyone should take a multi vitamin! but unless you know what is lacking in the diet, surely a daily balancer or vitamin is almost useless
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Yes - unless you are taking bloods etc for analysis then it's mainly just guesswork, same as for humans.

I've got a background in endurance running and you can get bombarded with advice (and of course adverts) stating that you should be taking/eating this, that and the other, to avoid injuries/fatigue etc.

The only supplement that I ever take is vitamin D, because the only thing that ever shows up in my blood tests is vit D deficiency, and taking it stopped my hips constantly hurting!

I could probably take one of those super duper 'active person' fizzy vitamin things and it wouldn't do any harm, but I guess if it gives a placebo effect then someone can get a benefit.
 
We have a lot of glacial drift in my bit of Norfolk which can return some very weird analyses, sometimes quite different over a short distance because of flood plains, gravel lenses, etc. At one place forageplus retested a sample I sent because it seemed implausible. It was so high in iodine it was unsafe for breeding stock and they recommended I feed hay all year round anyway to counteract its effects. When I ended up with my field I tested the grass, which was all over the place, and decided to actively look for hay that would balance it up a bit, by asking exactly where it had come from and looking up the soil type before deciding whether to buy a few bales to have tested. It turned out to be quite an easy and accurate way of reducing the impact of a crazy mineral profile in the grazing (fortunate to find a couple of reliable haymen, though). Goodness knows how much of a difference it actually made to two retired ponies in reality, though tbf they were no trouble at all health wise even into old age despite a pretty hands-off management style.
 
On terms of difference, I had an analysis which aside from the usual imbalances in the UK, had a crazy high manganese level.

While I was waiting I fed the RDA of the minerals I had. Once I had the analysis, I adjusted and got a really clear event line and much better tighter hoof after.
 
meleeka said:
No, the post was very specific, no grass or hay would be good enough, even for natives, presumably, including my Shetlands!
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Hmmm, well it's an interesting stance certainly; natural (but are they?) foodstuffs not being enough for our unnatural equines.
You could argue that balancing the soil properly (so fertilizing, planting certain species of grasses) would do the same job as a balancer and without all the fillers though.
Personally I'd rather not make, or adhere to, blanket statements.... Horses for courses isn't it
 
kerrieberry2 said:
I saw the original post on FB and it said that every horse should have a daily balancer! but how do you know what they're lacking in? a daily balance is generic and might in fact give the horse more of what they don't need! its like saying that everyone should take a multi vitamin! but unless you know what is lacking in the diet, surely a daily balancer or vitamin is almost useless
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This.

First it was on FB, with one of those broad sweeping provocative statements to get you to engage. Echo chamber of crap. Nope.

Second - no data points. No evidence. Which studies show this, when? Just wanting to flog something.

Third - no secondary detail. Which horses? In what country? On what soil types? On what diets? In what season? Which breed? What age? What work level? With what chronic conditions? With level of gut health? Herd living or individual?

Sure, get bloods done and consider all the other elements and work from there but until then, I’ll work with my vet and nutritionalist thanks and you can keep your special magic powders.
 
PurpleSpots said:
- blanket supplementation isn't the way, but targeted supplementation when necessary is.
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but how many people blood test their horses, soil test, balance the soil etc etc and how many in livery yards even have the chance. In a perfect world there may be some horses that don't need general balancers but specific ones. However it is not a general world and she is speaking to the masses. Horse keeping has changed considerably, track systems, hay only diets, work levels etc. quality of feeds. As for working with my vet he looked in amazement at a bottle of vit E and asked what it was. I have never had a vet advise (usefully) on this subject. They may say you could try a supplement etc but not advice in any detail.

PurpleSpots said:
More nonsense posted since, showing clear ignorance of any proper knowledge of feral (sorry, 'wild') horses...
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which parts in particular.
 
Tiddlypom said:
The target of the blanket post about all horses needing supplementation no matter how they are kept is aimed at the gullible who lap up all the advice spouted, good or bad.

Gotta give a new sponsor their money’s worth.

As it stands it is a downright incorrect statement. Had it been qualified to indicate that many domestic horses might benefit from some form of dietary supplemention, and btw I recommend my sponsor’s products if you go down this route, then that would be a different matter.
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I think there are probably 2 groups of people. The gullible, they may well lap it up and take her advice and if someone points them in the direction of a suitable supplement problem solved for them. No further effort required. They didn't feed one before, their feeding may well be haphazard and their horses may well benefit. Without the article they probably wouldn't have made much effort and it may well never have occurred to them. There are surprisingly a fair number of gullible people around taking pretty poor advice. No we may not have needed to feed a supplement years ago but the quality of feed and forage has deteriorated a lot over the years and many are on restricted poor lack of variety grass.

There are also the informed group. The internet wannabee vets and nutritionalists. They disagree and could write an essay about why she is wrong. Whether they are right may be another question. Some horses are clearly deficient in some areas problem is determining which areas. Most cannot afford a vet to come out,, test and are the general RDA accurate anyway. Then another costly retest and more retests.

There are lots of incorrect statements on the internet from professionals and many which could have been better written. Best way if it increases your blood pressure is to scroll on by. The main problem with this one is the author and the "have a go" HHO mob wanting to pile in on whatever she says. Is what she wrote dangerous, not to my mind, will it make some people reconsider and their horses will benefit then great. No problem.
 
Probably for optimal nutition yes they do but do they all need optimal nutrition? No they dont. Supplements for horses ls a massive industry generating millions of pounds for industry. I think the marketing relies on guilt and insecurity of owners. If all and any supplements/herbs/balancers were on vet prescription only ,prescribed only if definately necessary eg for copper deficiency than i expect that the jndustry would collapse.
 
I did feed a vit/min supplement when my boy had laminitis and his hay was being soaked to death, but I remember watching a tv documentary where they basically said people taking supplements basically had urine full of vitamins and minerals and very few in supplement form were absorbed, so are horses any different 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
paddy555 said:
There are lots of incorrect statements on the internet from professionals and many which could have been better written. Best way if it increases your blood pressure is to scroll on by. The main problem with this one is the author and the "have a go" HHO mob wanting to pile in on whatever she says. Is what she wrote dangerous, not to my mind, will it make some people reconsider and their horses will benefit then great. No problem.
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My OP finished with the word "discuss". I was very careful not to mention who the post was from and invited a discussion on whether supplements were indeed necessary for ALL horses, no matter what their breed or diet. Last time I checked, this was a discussion forum and I for one have gained a lot from discussing and debating veterinary issues, so my post wasn't about piling on. I would have posted the same had it been posted by any vet. Was it dangerous? Not this time. Was it accurate? I don't think so, but I wanted to see what others thought. Was it click bait? Most probably!
 
I’d just be aware that a link to a sponsored supplement and influencer discount code was added to the post and be careful not to mistake paid advertising for actual veterinary medical advice.
 
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