All not quite as hoped...

[MrsMozartleto]

It's been going so well with the wee dog.

She's mixing with the others and playing with them (a sight to be seen for sure) and all fine. Then last night happened.

Wee dog does not like being told what to do or 'No' or any other word that means she can't be where she wants to be. This is not acceptable. I'm concious of her past and have kept things low key but consistent.

She's grumbled at the others if they come up to me and she's with me or if she's in a spot and they come close. On their part they ignore her and will either choose another spot or curl up next to her. All good and she does shut up. If they want to come to me then no amount of her grumping will stop them. I've been moving her away and saying 'No' when she grumps.

Last night she was having a grumble. I think because a dog curled up on the sofa at the far end - I was at the other end, wee dog was then in the middle. This is a normal set-up sans the grumbling. I stroked her when she stopped and she lay on me, but then went on her back and the grumbling started. The Rottie that was on the sofa got off as he was too hot on there. The wee dog wasn't growling, it was more of a grumble, which I thought might be the terrier 'purr' - the Rotties make a similar sound when happy - but her body was almost rigid. I tried to move her around so she wasn't on her back but she went straight back to the 'on back' position and the grumbling continued. I needed to get up so put her onto the sofa at the side of me. She didn't like that. A Rottie and the GSD had come over to see what the noise was. They were sat quiet and soft but interested expressions and body language. The GSD moved her head in almost to comfort the wee dog and the wee dog flew at her! Full on going for her. Thank every thing under the sun the GSD just tucked her head in and didn't respond. I batted wee dog off with a big cushion. Checked the GSD over. Retrieved the wee dog from behind the sofa and put her in her crate for ten minutes. Talked with the other dogs and let them outside. They were a bit wired but calmed. One of the Rotties gets worried so needed a bit more attention (calm matter-of-fact voice and touch). All good. I let the wee dog out and they were all back to normal. All got individual attention and the usual pile on where I become a standing human sandwich.

A good friend says she thinks wee dog is still nervous of the big ones, which I can understand. Only what do I do to make her more confident and comfortable and keep all happy?

When wee dog grumbles (it's a sort of 'bob-off' almost growl) and she's next to me then I put her down or move her away. When she's quiet she gets strokes. Do I keep this up? Should I be doing something else?

Just thought - it had been a day of wee dog having been told to move, etc., more than most. As though she was either testing me or just didn't want to do as she was told. We don't have many rules, just ones that keep everybody safe and well, i.e. don't dash in front of me because I'll probably stand on you, move out of the kitchen when we're cooking as otherwise you're going to end up covered in something. Obviously the dogs don't know the reasonsing, just know that they have to either shift out of the way or just not be in the way.

Trying to think what else folks might need to know to be able to advise. Hm. She can go on the sofa and armchair as a) she's small and quick and bouncy, and b) the others are allowed on one end of the sofa and they tend to rest a head on me when I'm sat on the other end, so wee dog is allowed to as well. Thinking about it, despite all the dog beds and places she can go, including the was-the-cats-bed-is-now-wee-dogs-bed, she is often to be found in my spot on the sofa and she doesn't like to be told to get off it. Her usual response to being told anything she doesn't like is to lie on her back. If she's then physically moved her body goes almost rigid. She's never shown a tooth to us. I don't know if the last night grumbling was aimed at me.

Any suggestions folks? I thought there'd be some bumps in the road and am keen to iron them out soonest.

 

[Clodagh]

I think she has got her feet under the table now and is going to be top dog. TBH I wouldn't let her on the sofa at all for a while, she is keeping the others away from you.
(My dogs are allowed on the sofa but the first sign of ownership it is banishment).

 

[palo1]

No real advice but I do know that my old fell hound is a bit like this - she seems very quiet and sweet but if she is on the sofa or has superior access to a particular resource she can be horrible!! Over the years, and having children when she and they were younger, the easiest strategy for me was to ensure she just doesn't have that superior access. She is much more relaxed and very easy going if kept in her place bless her!! We would love her to be able to join us on the sofa, and the red dog is cool about where he is put/where he is allowed so it feels quite unfair but the old girl just has to accept that if she can't hack the rules then she can't have the access. We haven't had any issues with her for years BUT if I allow her on the sofa late at night when it is just me there, she can be growly, teeth showing stubborn about getting off to go to bed. I think it might be easiest for a while to play hard ball...!!

 

[planete]

You could keep a house line on her (lead without a loop for the hand) and teach her a word of command which means 'get off the sofa" while luring her off with a treat which you then give her on her bed or wherever you want her to be. The house line will allow you to take control of her if she gets really antsy without risking a bite. Bit by bit she should understand you are the one who rules, not her. You will have to be very consistent, terriers are very determined critters.

 

[twiggy2]

If a place is becoming an issue the dog does not go there anymore, that's my rules for my house and every person I work with gets that advice.
So grumble in the sofa and the sofa is out of bounds, same with my lap etc.
I would pop a light house line on her when I am around and I would not touch her to move her, a frozen dog is a fearful dog amd they often bite the hardest if/when they bite.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

Thank you for the replies.

I've tried to respond to each but my phone is refusing to actually post anything for some reason, so have nipped on here.

Case in point - she was happily lying on my bed with me. All good. She heard one of the dogs walking along the hallway and grumble growled so I told her 'Off'. She ignored. I don't have a house line on her yet so pushed her off with a pillow. She wasn't happy.

Definitely need to cut out the being on the bed or sofa. This will be sad as it's lovely having little thing tucked in. Will I be able, in time, to restart it? Once she understands and accepts the rules?

Must dash. Thank you so much for all advice folks. Back later (or sooner if phone behaves whilst out!).

 

[MrsMozartleto]

Quick question before I hop off to the joy that is shopping - why would she be fearful (the freezing thing)? She's not had a bad time here, so is it from her past?

 

[Clodagh]

Quick question before I hop off to the joy that is shopping - why would she be fearful (the freezing thing)? She's not had a bad time here, so is it from her past?

No expert but she looks like she's half chihuahua and they always strike me as neurotic little things.

 

[{97702}]

I’m probably more firm ? than most others on the forum, but even given her past I’d have been gently bopping her off the sofa or my lap every time she growled/muttered whether that was at me or one of the other dogs. One thing George has taught me is that terriers are opinionated little horrors who think they rule the world ? so I’ve found it necessary to use the “actually no, you don’t, I do” approach initially with George until he learned what was OK and what wasn’t.

I’m kind of used to avoiding getting bitten now (thanks Millie ?) so I don’t tend to use a long line personally, but I’m always very aware of body language etc from the dog

 

[BallyJ]

My small JRT does the rolling over freeze thing i have owned for a puppy and she has never been ill treated.
She thinks she rules everyone, i have to be strict with her otherwise she can get out of hand. I remind her often that if i don't want her on the sofa she doesn't come up etc etc.

Haven't been bitten, but as above im big on looking at her body language and know her like the back of my hand, when to push and when not to.

 

[{97702}]

Quick question before I hop off to the joy that is shopping - why would she be fearful (the freezing thing)? She's not had a bad time here, so is it from her past?

it may be from her past - it may just be her nature? I know she isn’t a rescue as such, but I’ve had lots of rescues that have behaved in all kinds of unexpected ways and you never really know what is going on because you don’t know their history?

I’d tend to just accept it as being ‘just her’ and work with her to reduce her fear, set some parameters and let her relax. It will take a good 6-12 months before she really settles, so early days for her yet ?

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I think it sounds as if she needs a bit of time to adjust to how some things works in your house. You get told to get out of the way, and if you don't listen, you get moved, no big deal, just do it.

Since she did launch herself on the GSD, I'm another one who says that from here on, if she grumbles towards the big dogs on the sofa, she has to go down. Doesn't matter if she stops quickly, she growls, she has to go down.

If you feel that she is seriously trying to claim your spot in the sofa, then she's not allowed to lie in your spot at all, whether you want to sit there at that moment or not, she has to move. She have plenty of dog (/cat) beds to choose between by the sound of it, and if she's trying to get up on a higher horse/testing the limits, then it will do her no harm to have to stay off the sofa, and sleep on one of the soft dog beds instead.
When she has gotten more used to how things works in your house, you could try allowing her to lie there again.

Regardless if she's insecure, or testing your limits, clear and simple rules are easiest to understand.

You could always try buying an Adaptil diffusor, it could help her feel a bit more relaxed.

I really like using long lines for training outdoors, if you think the suggestions from others about using one indoors could work for you, give it a try.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

Between shops so quick hop back.

I'm quite firm... I'm happy to teach manners etc and I expect them. I find with one of the Grotties that I have to be softer as he gets worried, the GSD just needs a look but can be rude on the odd occasion so gets a sharp voice, the other Grotty is pretty chilled. Everyone knows the 'get out of the way', 'wait over there', 'come here' commands and wee dog has been learning since she's been here (3 weeks). The others all have their odd moments but nothing like the wee one displayed last night. She's told to get off my spot even if I'm not going to sit down because it's mine. The others aren't allowed on it and don't try.

She bobbed off (in the house) this morning and didn't come to call. I don't have a line yet so put a slip lead on and took her back to where we were and went through the wait etc. She was shaking She got praise for doing it right.

I've put her was-cats-bed in her crate and left the door open. She had liked to put herself in there and I'd got out of the habit of leaving it open. I'm hoping she sees it as her spot. She wouldn't come to call again so the slip lead went back on. Praised when she chilled.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Dogs only do what works for them/is in their best interests. The growling may have got people to go away and let her do what she wants in the past and what you perceive as 'fear' may be her way 'out of' things she does not like.
One of my own goes between my legs when he wants to avoid something, the other throws himself on the ground and has a screaming tantrum or just tries to fight me.
They haven't been badly treated in the past, they have just figured out what they think, works.

This sounds like a dog with which you need to be black and white with lots of boundaries and no grey areas/'sometimes/if you're good'. Even if she is small and fits on the sofa, if it's a pinch point, for me, she shouldn't be there.

If she was a big dog, this behaviour woild be intolerable/dangerous, no matter what background she was from, I wouldn't excuse anything because she is small...she doesn't know what size she is.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Terriers are jealous little so and so’s. The sofa will always be a flash point, so IMHO the sofa needs to be a dog free zone.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would put the ex cat bed on the floor next to you, so that she is close to you when you are sitting on the sofa but she can't interfere with the dogs on the sofa. I simply wouldn't have her on the bed - do you let the big dogs on the bed? She certainly shouldn't be allowed/encouraged to think that she might be top dog - that's your position.

I must tell you though about our first (rehomed) Rott and the JRT; as a family, 4 of us were playing Risk, one evening, with the board on a coffee table, Rott kept threatening to sweep the pieces off the board, so we told her to go away (several times). Then the blue and white JRT came to look, Rott picked her up by the scruff and deposited her on 'the dogs' settee'. It took several moments for the JRT to realise what had happened and make her displeasure felt - Rott was safely out of the way by that time and the family all fell about laughing.

I should add the Rott was well down the pecking order in that pack!

 

[palo1]

My small JRT does the rolling over freeze thing i have owned for a puppy and she has never been ill treated.
She thinks she rules everyone, i have to be strict with her otherwise she can get out of hand. I remind her often that if i don't want her on the sofa she doesn't come up etc etc.

Haven't been bitten, but as above im big on looking at her body language and know her like the back of my hand, when to push and when not to.

It's interesting, the roll-over, freeze and growl thing...I sort of assumed with my wicked fell hound that it is 'sort of submissive' - I am not sure how fearful she is but I do KNOW that she is blumming wilful so I had always viewed this as a very mixed message - as in 'Yes I am submissive but I don't mean it/don't like it and if you push me I will be nasty'. I don't know enough about dog psychology/training to really understand all the subtleties of this but I know enough to know that it is not good lol Sooo, I took what I could in the early days and made sure that it was very clear about who was in charge at the same time as giving plenty of safe space for a cross but possibly worried dog to retreat to. I found it hard with Bess tbh but sending her/putting her in her bed and then giving her a treat when she sat quietly and politely really helped. I am very, very glad that my terrier is much easier and much more relaxed about everything. (I know that fellow terrier owners will find that ironic!!)

 

[Mynstrel]

Be aware of what's gone on through the day, if she's had a lot going on that's exciting (good or bad) then it'll take less for her to react as she'll be fired up anyway. It won't cure it but should make it easier to know the times to enforce the rules earlier or with more kid gloves or give her downtime to chill out before it gets to her flashpoint rather than as a reaction to it.

 

[Blanche]

She would have been on the floor pdq with me, I would not have said anything. She would not have been allowed up again for a while and then at my invitation only. I had a terrierist who thought he might like to growl at people, children, the other dogs etc. when on the sofa. He was soon shown otherwise and dumped on the floor. Shortstuff got the message eventually.

 

[splashgirl45]

my little terrier suddenly started growling if i accidently touched him when on the sofa. first of all i assumed it was because i had woken him up and i made allowances. one day he growled when my elbow touched him and he was awake and really looking at me with a bit of a threatening look. i reacted very quickly, picked him up by his scruff and told him no and put him on the floor. i didnt allow him back on the sofa for the rest of the evening..the next day i was typing on my lap top and touched him and he jumped off the sofa immediately, i think i had really shocked him with my actions and he has taken notice and no more growling. his dad was jr/chi and i was shocked when he growled at me as i have had him from a puppy and he is normally a very smiley friendly boy, he does growl in his sleep sometimes but now never at me...

 

[{97702}]

My small JRT does the rolling over freeze thing i have owned for a puppy and she has never been ill treated.
She thinks she rules everyone, i have to be strict with her otherwise she can get out of hand. I remind her often that if i don't want her on the sofa she doesn't come up etc etc.

Haven't been bitten, but as above im big on looking at her body language and know her like the back of my hand, when to push and when not to.

See I’m not sure I’d classify this as submissive or frightened behaviour? I know I’ve got very very limited terrier experience, but Millie lurcher has very clear body language and if she did something like that it would mean she was gearing up for an attack on the jugular (literally!)

I don’t know much about ‘dog psychology’ because it’s all inherent with me, but I’m trying to imagine the scenario and how I’d manage it. I think you’ve got it absolutely right BallyJ ?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Stiffening generally means someone is going to get bitten.

 

[{97702}]

It's interesting, the roll-over, freeze and growl thing...I sort of assumed with my wicked fell hound that it is 'sort of submissive' - I am not sure how fearful she is but I do KNOW that she is blumming wilful so I had always viewed this as a very mixed message - as in 'Yes I am submissive but I don't mean it/don't like it and if you push me I will be nasty'. I don't know enough about dog psychology/training to really understand all the subtleties of this but I know enough to know that it is not good lol Sooo, I took what I could in the early days and made sure that it was very clear about who was in charge at the same time as giving plenty of safe space for a cross but possibly worried dog to retreat to. I found it hard with Bess tbh but sending her/putting her in her bed and then giving her a treat when she sat quietly and politely really helped. I am very, very glad that my terrier is much easier and much more relaxed about everything. (I know that fellow terrier owners will find that ironic!!)

Oh - I should have scrolled up a bit more before replying lol - yes, what Palo says here ?

 

[AFB]

I think she has got her feet under the table now and is going to be top dog. TBH I wouldn't let her on the sofa at all for a while, she is keeping the others away from you.
(My dogs are allowed on the sofa but the first sign of ownership it is banishment).

I'm quite hard line on this and my dogs have to earn their privileges (i.e. sofa time) - if they can't behave then they don't get it. Quite frankly she would have the option of her own bed or the floor for the time being if it was me.

 

[CorvusCorax]

....and a lot of dogs don't have the capacity to recognize good behaviour = sofa. It's a humanising behaviour. Most dogs will just get frustrated and think, why then, but not now? They take between 3-5 seconds to link a behaviour with a consequence, either good or bad, they won't remember being a good girl at 2pm or a bad boy at 4pm.

 

[Books'n'dogs]

I have experienced similar incidents between my Miniature Schnauzer and my other three larger dogs (2 German Shepherds and an Australian Shepherd), I know how nerve wracking they are. There is a lot of good information already on this thread from previous posters but I would emphasize that stiffening=terrier preparing to attack; I've had to learn to keep an eye on my terrier's body language and be prompt in removing him to a safe space as soon as he starts showing evidence that he is stressed/unhappy/getting too full of himself.

 

[meleeka]

It’s difficult to know if it’s defensive behaviour or guarding, but what I would say is that when they or their comfort is being threatened, a terrier will usually come out fighting. They are incredibly feisty and don’t really understand that they are small. They don’t really do submissive behaviour in my experience. For everyone’s safety I think I’d not have the dog on the sofa with me for now.

 

[twiggy2]

Dogs only do what works for them/is in their best interests. The growling may have got people to go away and let her do what she wants in the past and what you perceive as 'fear' may be her way 'out of' things she does not like.
One of my own goes between my legs when he wants to avoid something, the other throws himself on the ground and has a screaming tantrum or just tries to fight me.
They haven't been badly treated in the past, they have just figured out what they think, works.

so what led the dog to exhibit the behaviours thw first few times in order for them to learn it works?
the freezing on their backs/screaming and hiding between the legs may have been learnt prior to living in the current household but it will have been a behaviour carried out the first few times from fear surely?

 

[twiggy2]

It’s difficult to know if it’s defensive behaviour or guarding, but what I would say is that when they or their comfort is being threatened, a terrier will usually come out fighting. They are incredibly feisty and don’t really understand that they are small. They don’t really do submissive behaviour in my experience. For everyone’s safety I think I’d not have the dog on the sofa with me for now.

A behaviour can be both, the dogs resource guarding can be fear driven, the dog then freezing can be fear of rough handling or picking up the emotions of the human around it, these behaviours can all be interlinked.
Most aggression is fear driven and terriers are often not the bravest of souls and jrt are often like this.

 

[Smitty]

It's a terrier. No pussyfooting allowed. Rolled up newspaper. End of. Sorry, expect RSPCA any min now....