Am I being cruel?

[scats]

I actually have nothing against ribby horses coming out of winter. In fact, I actively aim for ribs in Feb/March (but never get them, sadly!)
Horses are designed to loses significant amount of weight in winter, and gain again in spring and summer. The issues we have with things like EMS and laminitis are the fact that we’ve messed with horses metabolisms by keeping them in good and overweight condition all year.

A local instructor absolutely slated a yard a couple of years ago because her horse, who was wintering out, had a few visible ribs in February. The shocking thing was, everyone agreed with her, how awful it was that the horse was so poor. I dared to say that I thought it was wonderful to see a horse come out of winter as nature intended and he could now enjoy the spring grass without as much worry, but apparently i was alone in that view!

 

[southerncomfort]

Young horses are growing they will at times outgrow the calories they are taking in .
At three is disastrous to allow your horse to be fat .
You need to control his weight now not in the winter that’s too late too fat horses when young get weak joints you need to have them ideally looking a little lean .

Agree with this.

I'd not be thinking about winter right now. I'd have my full attention on getting some weight off now.

ETA at 3 years old there is nothing wrong with leading out for in hand hacks. It'll get some weight off and has the added of bonus of making a bold hacking horse!. I led my native pony out 3 times a week before he was backed. He never got fat and he's the best hacking pony I've ever had.

 

[BSL2]

Steady weight all year, is what I try hard for. Of course in the summer there is a bit more podge, but we work really hard bringing them in for a certain amount of hours, so they don't get fat. Hard work as back and forth to yard, but that's horses Hate seeing an under fed skinny horse.

 

[Melody Grey]

With winter, I’d play it by ear- certainly no harm in turning away unrugged with adequate shelter and forage (inc. vits and minerals), but keep a watchful eye and be prepared to rug/ feed if it’s not working.

For now, be very wary of weight gain in a Connie- they are natives and not designed for the rich, plentiful grazing of the domestic situation. I’d restrict grazing and monitor- either with strip grazing/ a less grassy paddock/ muzzling.

I’m a great fan of the muzzle- it allows me to turn a native pony out with bigger horses (all carefully managed). Re: safety issues, I’ve not found them unsafe- the plastic clips break easily in my experience on modern ones (too easily sometimes!) and green guards can be used with field safe headcollars.

 

[tristar]

I think if you want him to have the longest possible trouble free life he needs to be living somewhere for the summer that you can muzzle, strip graze, or stable part time. I know that isn't always easy to find in the travelling distance that you want.
.

something i try to avoid is rapid growth spurts, specially with foal to yearling stage, managing the food sensibly can avoid this

so the horse can grow now then catch itself up then grow again without developmental issues what it eats, and the amount is crucial

 

[Tarragon]

I actually have nothing against ribby horses coming out of winter. In fact, I actively aim for ribs in Feb/March (but never get them, sadly!)
Horses are designed to loses significant amount of weight in winter, and gain again in spring and summer. The issues we have with things like EMS and laminitis are the fact that we’ve messed with horses metabolisms by keeping them in good and overweight condition all year.

A local instructor absolutely slated a yard a couple of years ago because her horse, who was wintering out, had a few visible ribs in February. The shocking thing was, everyone agreed with her, how awful it was that the horse was so poor. I dared to say that I thought it was wonderful to see a horse come out of winter as nature intended and he could now enjoy the spring grass without as much worry, but apparently i was alone in that view!

I am with you on this one. As someone once said to me, "hardy" native pony types need to face a few hardships as nature intended. I do hope nobody interprets this in that they need to suffer in any way, I just mean that their metabolism works best when there is a bit of a rhythm within the annual cycle between feast and famine. Just look at the free living Exmoor ponies out on the open moors all year round. They don't tend to get laminitis.

 

[05jackd]

I Winter nearly all of mine out rugless. They get pretty much ad-lib hay and I watch their weight carefully but I want them to drop some weight in the winter as we have exceptionally good spring grazing and they pile weight on.
I absolutely don't want them coming out of the winter fat as we would be a real risk for laminitis.

 

[Clodagh]

I thought ( but this maybe outdated) not experiencing weight fluctuations throughout the year is contributory to developing EMS.

 

[SEL]

A 3yo could be bitted and out on the long reins. That's no real pressure on their bodies and would help fitness

OP everyone is on the same page even if some posters leave their tact behind. Fat now is more "cruel" than dropping in winter

I'm despairing over my lot. I poo picked this morning from pretty barren fields with a bit of strip grazing thinking where the **** are you getting it from. All good doer native types who just sniff grass and expand

 

[ycbm]

Hate seeing an under fed skinny horse.

The trouble is that we are so used to seeing overweight horses everywhere now that many people (not talking about you here) look at a fit sports horse and think it's under fed and skinny.

I hate seeing under fed horses, but that doesn't mean I hate seeing some ribs.

And don't start me on "poverty lines" and the idea that they are automatically indicative of an underweight horse. Really fit horses have "poverty lines", it's just the muscle definition.

 

[toppedoff]

The trouble is that we are so used to seeing overweight horses everywhere now that many people (not talking about you here) look at a fit sports horse and think it's under fed and skinny.

I hate seeing under feed horses, but that doesn't mean I hate seeing some ribs.

And don't start me on "poverty lines" and the idea that they are automatically indicative of an underweight horse. Really fit horses have "poverty lines", it's just the muscle definition.

sorry what is poverty lines? and yes, i also feel people see fitness on a horse as being skinny

ill also admit, it has taken me a while to see what a healthy weight cob should look like! it is a dangerous thing to be uneducated on this topic imo im thankful for reading this thread

 

[Cortez]

As above, it's not that I am unable to grasp the principles of energy balance, it's the situational nuances

- He doesn't get feed
- He's on a (lovely) livery yard, but grazing and land management isn't purely up to me
- He's just turned 3 and I'd like him to have a long, sound life, so if you can suggest a safe and effective way to "properly exercise" a 3y/o for weight loss, do let me know!

In my increasingly long life I have managed to produce several hundred three year olds, none of which were overweight. Admittedly I had the advantage of managing my own grazing, but really it should not be a mystery as to how to properly maintain a young horse and prevent it from gorging itself to the point of obesity. I also broke the majority of those three year olds and they were very lightly ridden and lunged two or three times a week for about 15 - 20 minutes at a time, they also lived out unrugged in similar age groups so spent a lot of their time romping about, especially the colts. I have let you know, and may I suggest that if you ask for help and experiences it would be a good idea not to be snotty to those who are attempting to advise you.

 

[ycbm]

sorry what is poverty lines? and yes, i also feel people see fitness on a horse as being skinny

Poverty lines are the muscle definition between two major muscle groups in the hind quarters, visible on any horse which is not carrying fat. So they are seen on both starved horses and on fit horses, and too many people these days don't know the difference and stuff their horses full of feed to try to get rid of "poverty lines".

A fit eventer ready to compete.

 

[toppedoff]

Poverty lines are the muscle definition between two major muscle groups in the hind quarters, visible on any horse which is not carrying fat. So they are seen on both starved horses and on fit horses, and too many people these days don't know the difference and stuff their horses full of feed to try to get rid of "poverty lines".

A fit eventer ready to compete.

View attachment 115425

ah so interesting, thank you so much

 

[sassandbells]

Poverty lines are the muscle definition between two major muscle groups in the hind quarters, visible on any horse which is not carrying fat. So they are seen on both starved horses and on fit horses, and too many people these days don't know the difference and stuff their horses full of feed to try to get rid of "poverty lines".

A fit eventer ready to compete.

View attachment 115425

Thank you for sharing this - never heard of it before. I am slightly bemused though as I’ve just gone to look at old photos of my overweight mare (my own fault, much better now) and she has similar lines? Is it just a phrase people have picked up & run with without any real basis?

ETA: hers was of course fat, but still looks very similar.

Sorry, nothing to add to the original conversation!

 

[tristar]

As above, it's not that I am unable to grasp the principles of energy balance, it's the situational nuances

- He doesn't get feed
- He's on a (lovely) livery yard, but grazing and land management isn't purely up to me
- He's just turned 3 and I'd like him to have a long, sound life, so if you can suggest a safe and effective way to "properly exercise" a 3y/o for weight loss, do let me know!

when you have eaten off the grass so you do not have too much, or use elec fence to stop eating too much, i find they are on the march all day to graze, actively search out grass, this is my ideal.

i have a cob on about 1 acre, a bit like a track for a few weeks he put on a few pounds, spring grass, now its eaten down he spends 10 hours a day moving on the walk, his weight is now how i want it plus he is fit and has muscle, is ridden 3 x times a week

a friend noted many years ago that horses that were thin when they came tended to get and stay overweight when fed normally

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s extremely important that from three onwards you monitor the young horses weight and fatness carefully as they grow they of course get heavier they are turning sunlight via plants into horse .
You really need to train yourself to watch for the moment that that their growth slows and they start to lay down more fat than is good for them.
Young horses can be lean with detrimental effects as long it’s not being caused by parasites but a young who is fat is suffering damage .

 

[little_critter]

The trouble is that we are so used to seeing overweight horses everywhere now that many people (not talking about you here) look at a fit sports horse and think it's under fed and skinny.

I hate seeing under fed horses, but that doesn't mean I hate seeing some ribs.

And don't start me on "poverty lines" and the idea that they are automatically indicative of an underweight horse. Really fit horses have "poverty lines", it's just the muscle definition.

I’m glad you said this. Poverty lines were mentioned in another post recently and I had to ask my YO what they were. I had always seen those lines on fit competition horses / racehorses and had never thought they were anything to do with being poor, rather that they were well muscled and had minimal fat covering, so you could clearly see the muscle definition.

 

[spookypony]

My plan will be to turn him away for the winter again, leave naked, not feed, and let the weight come off him so he has room to gain again next spring, but is this cruel? I just want to do the best for him!

To me, this sounds like using the natural cycle of what a horse's weight is supposed to do in your favour, and you may help him avoid metabolic issues later on (or at least for longer). Horses naturally would be a bit rounder coming into winter, lose the weight over winter, and be a bit on the lean side in the spring, precisely so they don't get fatter and fatter every year. A few years ago, I reversed the usual management, and put my horses on a track with hay in the summer, and on long grass with no supplementary forage (except in weather extremes) in the winter. This was the answer to getting their weight under control, and the vet was really pleased that my mare was actually a bit light coming into the first spring: she regained the extra in just a few weeks, and it was much easier to adjust the feeding to put a bit of condition on, than it had been to try to fight the Battle of the Bulge the other direction.