Am I being too fussy? (arena woes)

[Emmsp]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance if this post is misplaced in the forum! And also for the length of the post.

I am happy on my DIY yard and more importantly so is my mare- we’ve been here for 8 years.

However, without meaning to sound ungrateful, it really upsets me to ride in the school.

We enjoy pole work, doing DIY Le Trec and jumping the most.

However, the arena on the yard is ancient and absolutely peppered (completely over-seasoned) with stones. Chalk stones. It is just a bog standard sand surface which must have originally been built at least 30 years ago and has never had a top up .. at least in the time I’ve been here…

In some spots of the school there is less than an inch of surface before you hit the remainder of the chalk which presumably is the base. There’s is no such thing as a membrane.

I have really tried to maintain this school in the time I’ve been here… going to such lengths as buying equipment (atv and arena mate as well as other tools) to grade the arena and on top of spending this money I also spend a lot of time sorting it out which ultimately also means I don’t always have the time to then ride…

I also have collected a lot of jumps and poles in the time I’ve been here and allow everyone else on the yard to also use them if they wish… (there otherwise isn’t any).

But the current situation is that there are just far too many stones which have surfaced and the last few weeks and despite my best efforts with the arena leveller and atv I have, it isn’t making a difference.

I have ridden in the school I have felt very anxious hearing the clunk of hooves on stone. I dread riding on it, so much so I feel so deflated about riding on this surface and so simply don’t.

I have taken to booking other local arenas to have my lessons on there as at least I know there is a decent, flat, stone less surface. My mare also appreciates it as she is a different ride on a decent surface!

My dilemma and really is that I can’t realistically afford to hire a local arena twice a week for £15-20 a go when I am also paying rent which includes the use of the sand(stone) school…

I have communicated to the YO that the school is terrible on many occasions… I have also shared second hand surfaces at reasonable prices (£250 was the last one for 10tonne of rubber, fibre, sand mix) with them when I have seen them advertised in the hope that it might encourage investment but it has been in vain.

I know it isn’t their priority but my mare and her joints are mine and I feel like I am paying to use something which isn’t fit for purpose at all.

Would it be unreasonable of me to ask for a reduction in my livery to cover at least some of the cost of hiring other arenas?

I will also add that I do not get any reduction for letting others use my equipment or for levelling the school with my own equipment…

Please tell me if I’m being entitled and I’ll accept that. I think I’ve just got a bit overwhelmed but I genuinely don’t want to school my 17 year old mare on stones.

 

[milliepops]

if you don't ask... you don't get... so on that basis it's worth a go, but I'd expect YO to say no, potential for the relationship to sour and then be prepared to move to another yard tbh.

One of my old yards did a livery tariff that did not include use of the school, so it's not unheard of. Actually i ended up boxing off to use a nearby arena because the surface was so poor it could have been very good but it was carpet and the YO used the chain harrows on it when it really needed rolling. so was super fluffy and really unstable. I've left other yards because the arenas were rubbish, too.

 

[Carrottom]

How many other liveries are there and what do they think? You obviously don't want to move your horse so maybe you could club together to try to to get something done, pay towards the cost of a top up which would save you money over time.

 

[Emmsp]

There are three of us- both of them agree the surface is awful. At the moment I’m the only one that rides in the school. So I don’t think it would be fair to ask anyone to club together to pay for a surface either.

The YO will not have fibre or rubber - only sand.

I genuinely don’t feel like I should have to pay when I have already spent ££ on the equipment to try and make it more rideable for no return…?‍?

 

[Emmsp]

I should probably add that I do have two on the yard- but one is companion only so stable and grass - no facilities.

I doubt whether the YO will allow me two on this rate though…

 

[brighteyes]

Move! How ridiculous and dangerous actually, for your horse's soundness. I'd be furious.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My old yard was similar in the sense that the surface was awful, membrane coming up, holes in it and it was over fetlock deep in some places when it was dry. Unfortunately DIY livery doesnt afford the profit margins to spend out on a school and in my area there weren’t enough other DIY options to allow voting with your feet.
It’s worth the conversation but I would also expect it to go sour and you may have to have a backup plan. If all liveries approached asking for a livery price that would exclude use of the school and be comparable to local no school prices it may kick them up the proverbial.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I think if you're the only one using the school, you either need to accept you'll be hiring out other schools or you need to move. I don't think you can expect a discount for letting people use your poles - as no one is.

By all means, ask for a reduction in livery, based on not using the school, but I'd be prepared for it to be a no.

I've been on a yard similiar to this with a not greatschool and ended up hiring a local school to get us by and then ultimately moving to a yard with better facilities when a space became available.
.

 

[sherry90]

I don’t think you are being too fussy, no. I’d be looking to move but appreciate it’s not easy. Presumably you pay for a service eg DIY livery which is advertised to include an arena - in my opinion this needs to be an arena that is suitable and maintained by the service provider ie. yard owner or manager. Unless you rent the yard entirely and it’s in your contract to maintain it then I would begrudge doing so (and paying!).

I don’t expect to be riding on an Olympic quality service but I wouldn’t expect to be paying for one that is a danger to me/my horse.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I understand that with only three liveries, the cost of resurfacing the school, would be prohibitively expensive, particularly as its only used by yourself.
The yard may be lovely, but it isn't really meeting your needs. Riding on an unsafe surface would be foolish. Your options are, move yard or travel and hire an arena, or just hack.

 

[throwawayaccount]

I was on a yard with a terrible arena for a few years, as at the time all I could afford was strict DIY. the surface of the arena hadn't been maintained for years and got progressively worse (sand paddock). it was never rolled, etc. it was also incredibly deep so I stopped riding in it because I didn't want to risk injury. we used to have safe hacking so I used this to my advantage!
ironically this arena was also used for winter turnout in replacement of grass turnout (there was none over winter) so half and half of the arena was split between two sets of ponies with electric tape. which wasn't electrified. my gelding at the time had been wound up by a girl who had deliberately wound the ponies up in her section (making them run intentionally for 'cute' photos), he did something to his leg as consequence, and went lame. I was furious and made that known.

after that I decided to never compromise on an arena again, or use that one for any purpose and ended up moving - I ended up finding all sorts in the arena (random chunks of metal, old cabling etc) I think my example is very extreme!!

tbh as long as you have good/safe hacking you can always school on hacks etc - arenas aren't always paramount, but handy to have. for me, its essential (even though I barely ride, when I want to I want my horse to be safe- our hacking isn't wonderful at all- takes about 25 mins to get to a bridlepath) so i'm luckily on a yard with a good surface.

it really is NOT worth risking your horse being ridden or turned out on a poorly levelled surface, unless you want to deal with potential injuries.

 

[SpotsandBays]

As somebody who has always wanted an arena, I’d be gutted if there was one but it wasn’t safe to use!

 

[Emmsp]

Thanks for all of you who took the time to read and reply.

This school (luckily) cannot be used for turnout or anything else as there is no fencing anyway…

but having read these replies I think it’s fair to say I made the right decision choosing to not use it anymore.

I do hack and usually inbox up to hack as there’s not much in the way of Bridleways near the yard … I only really used to use the school for our weekly lessons with our instructor which I have been hiring an arena for.

YO I think doesn’t quite realise the impact of this surface as is non horsey. ?‍ I think they probably think I’m just a moaning Myrtle when it comes to the sand school. It is my only grievance with the yard.

tbf when they moved in one of their first comments was asking how much they’d be able to hire the school for ?‍

 

[lottiepony]

I think unfortunately if you want an arena that you can use you need to consider moving unless you are happy to keep hiring. Arenas are a huge expense and as someone before mentioned DIY does not provide lavish profits, also if someone isn't horsey they really won't understand.

Me and my friend do the maintenance on the arena where I'm on DIY. It's very old but was done very well in the first place so thankfully with some TLC it's keeping it in tip top shape. I started doing it as the yard owner just didn't have the time (yard is on a working farm) and I used it a lot and don't want to ride in a rubbish/deep arena. I have a little lawn tractor we use and the YO gives us the petrol for it in return for us doing it. The problem is for you that you can only do basic maintenance and by the sounds of it the arena needs a good overhaul.

 

[Melody Grey]

You have my sympathies OP, I’m currently on a yard (not exactly by choice) that has a woodchip arena that rides much too deep. I don’t use it for my main horse as it’s too much risk (had SI and PSD issues). I potter on OH’s cob occasionally but can’t seriously use it to school. The problem here is that the other liveries and yard owner are oblivious, despite there being ridden issues I’d link directly to the surface so when I complain, I look like I’m being a diva!

I’ll definitely be looking more closely at the school in my next move!!

if you’re paying for livery which includes the school, I’d expect it to be fit for purpose and appropriate maintenance being included (even if that increases the price a bit). It’s not worth risking your horses soundness and your safety.

 

[webble]

Is there demand in the area for school hire? If so could your approach be that they could spend the money and slowly get it back with arena hire?

 

[Emmsp]

To be honest it is a small 20x40- more like a 18x36 school so not standard size anyway I can’t imagine anyone would really want to hire it with that in mind ?‍

It’s just a shame. The yard also has a round pen for lunging etc and that is in a complete state of disrepair too- not helped by having a huge concrete slab which leads to cesspit in it so no one can use that realistically either. And no one uses. I’ve used it twice in 8 years as a bit of a turnout after bathing.

We had also set up a jump field next to the school which was used instead of the school however the YO didn’t keep on top of mowing … apart from a strip in the middle which they walk along so the grass is too long, lush and ‘bunched’ (when grass grows in a clump and makes it bumpy?) and now rutted from wildlife to ride in too. It has crossed my mind to graze my mares in there but it’s so so lush at the moment I wouldn’t dream of it … ?plus it is not fenced.

I can only really do so much with the equipment I have and realistically I’m already spending money and time on maintaining something that isn’t mine… ( which my OH often reminds me of when he finds me on eBay ?‍?‍!) .. which I know is for my own benefit as well as my horses but something has to give from YOs side I feel when I’m paying to be able to use these things …

I also feel I’ve been accommodating with their requests… such as having to sell my Pink electric fence posts to buy green ones because of pink wasn’t part of the ‘aesthetic’ they are going for ? (?!) and yes at a slight £ loss…

And perhaps spending that money hiring an arena will mean I can focus more on spending time enjoying riding…

 

[MuddyMonster]

If the hacking isn't great either, I'd be tempted to start looking at other yards with either, if not both, good hacking or a good school. That way your only having to box for one or three other.

It might give you a benchmark against your current yard which will either make you realise your current yard ticks more boxes than it doesn't or that you can do better elsewhere. At least then, you may not feel quite so condemned to forever boxing off the yard to hire a school or hack - or if you are, you'll know it's better than than the alternatives!

 

[Griffin]

I wouldn't spend any more money or time trying to sort out the arena, I would either box to hire one or look for another yard.

To be honest, if a YO expected me to change the colour of my electric fencing posts because they did fit the aesthetic (was this specified when you started there?) but didn't seem bothered by a rubbish looking arena that was potentially dangerous for my horse's joints, I would have moved anyway.

 

[Emmsp]

@Griffin, the current YO moved here about 18 months ago… so I was already here… pink posts and all. I did think it was a ridiculous request at the time but they seemed to be bothered by my pink posts… I did just bring a pink mounting block to the yard too (fb marketplace find) to which they (I want to say in jest but ?‍) remarked I’d have to get the paint out ?

I still have some pink posts which I still use but near the bottom of my paddock.

 

[ihatework]

I’d want pink posts gone too!
And if I wasn’t a rider and it was just a tiny DIY yard that I wasn't reliant on a big income from I’m not sure I’d be resurfacing a school for one client - sorry!

 

[Leandy]

What are the alternative yards? This one really doesn't sound great facility-wise and it seems you need good facilities.

 

[Annagain]

Would they (would you want to) let you 'manage' the school on their behalf and take a cut to cover your costs / time? You're already doing so much of the work that it may not be that much more for you and it might help them realise that they need to invest in improvements / maintenance to have a valuable asset that provides a return. If you were to invest in topping up the surface (even a second hand one) and manage bookings on the understanding that you keep the income until the surface is paid off and you then take a cut of the hire fees for your time managing bookings you could show them that you are getting a return for the investment and that further investment would provide an even better return.

If they say no to that, you would then have a good case to ask for reduced livery. They may say yes so they don't have to maintain it at all.

I would say though that although you're happy with everything else, it doesn't mean you can't be happy anywhere else - and because you're not in a rush to leave you can be very picky about where you go next. It doesn't sound ideal to not have great hacking or a good school. Having a look around at what's available won't hurt, especially as good places are likely to have waiting lists.

 

[throwawayaccount]

@Griffin, the current YO moved here about 18 months ago… so I was already here… pink posts and all. I did think it was a ridiculous request at the time but they seemed to be bothered by my pink posts… I did just bring a pink mounting block to the yard too (fb marketplace find) to which they (I want to say in jest but ?‍) remarked I’d have to get the paint out ?

I still have some pink posts which I still use but near the bottom of my paddock.

doesn't sound like a great place to be, sorry to say. if they're picky about superficial things such as colourings of posts but not bothered about the yard being dilapidated itself......

keep your pink posts!! maybe think of moving?

 

[Muddywellies]

I'd have to move. You'll be pretty upset if (when?) your horse goes down lame. I'd be withdrawing my free arena maintenance and jump supplier services and stand back and watch how much worse it gets, and if the yard owner finally acknowledges the problem. I always find the more you do, the more people take for granted, so put away your jumps and poles and stop trying to maintain the surface. Maybe try to do arena hire for the next month to six weeks and if no surface top up/renewal is on the horizon, I'd be off.

 

[maya2008]

Can you not find somewhere else? I cannot see the benefits to staying unless it is ridiculously cheap!

 

[Foxaunt]

How easy is a good yard to come by in your area? for me it's dmn-near impossible. We are finally on the most amazing yard with a great school and lovely liveries/yard owner/grooms, but it took a while and cost an arm and a leg to get there. Now that I'm looking to build my own facilities, an Arena is the number one priority, after land/turnout space. It never used to be high up on the list ("i can always hack out!") but really, when you have a nice school like I've finally found, I would use it every single day, sometimes twice a day, just as a neutral, safe place to exercise, train, or let them stretch without tearing up the grazing.

With that being said, if you can find somewhere to move to then i would certainly try. I'm sorry you are faced with this decision, good luck!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, if you sell all your equipment that is for arena maintenance, surely that will cover arena hire costs for quite a while? Can you store all your jumps away too? Then approach YO for discount as arena unsafe for horses. Worth trying...

I manage ok without an arena, I use one of my paddocks to do circles etc in, but hire if I want to jump (works out far cheaper than installing an arena and maintaining) and I school whilst hacking most of the time.

 

[wiglet]

The yard you're at doesn't sound fantastic - a school that's not fit for purpose and no decent hacking. Is the livery cost reflected in the price or is it expensive for what it is? How does it compare to other yards in your area?
I seriously doubt the owners will do anything - it sounds like a small yard so probably not cost effective to put down a new surface. No harm in asking for a reduction but I don't think they'll offer anything.

I'd quietly start looking for a new yard and in the meantime, box up to arenas. I used to do this at one of my old yards that had no arena. I was going 3 times a week and I negotiated a reduced rate for use of school - it was basically a 3 sessions for the cost of 2 deal! However, I think this was only granted because I didn't ride at peak times. See what you can do?

 

[PurBee]

@Griffin, the current YO moved here about 18 months ago… so I was already here… pink posts and all. I did think it was a ridiculous request at the time but they seemed to be bothered by my pink posts… I did just bring a pink mounting block to the yard too (fb marketplace find) to which they (I want to say in jest but ?‍) remarked I’d have to get the paint out ?

I still have some pink posts which I still use but near the bottom of my paddock.

They’re more bothered by the colour of equipment, they dont use, than the safety standard of the arena they charge people to use?
You’re maintaining their arena and bought equipment to do it?!
Round pen issues...!

Oh...i mean there’s good in letting some things go....but youre paying for use of facilities, yet the facilities are unsafe to be used.
Green instead of pink FFS..is their priority....wow.

I’d leave.