Am I going about this right - roughing off?

[Birker2020]

Basically I am left with 2 choices for my horse. Retire at the blood bank (intake April) or pts when I ring them in January when they've asked me to if I find that I can't get him on the list.

I was getting a rider back on board after his final lot of treatment but the one has put her prices up and I can't afford it anymore the other has let me down. Tbh I know nothing will change by him being ridden if I'm being realistic, he's too broken.

I'm trying to rough him off a bit in case he is able to go to the bloodbank next year. He's growing a coat and last night I turned him out at 6pm when it was 15c in a no fill rain sheet. It went down to 7 with a low of 4.

This morning when I got him in at 6.30am he was cold under the rug and base of ears. We are in an indoor barn set up so when he came into his stable I took his rug off and didn't put a sheet on.

Am i right doing this or am I being cruel? It feels a little unfair but I assume this is how you go about roughing off a horse. I will need to see he doesn't drop weight, he has Healthy Hooves, hi fibre nuts and oil. He has plenty of hay also in the field as he's on a small grass pen due to recovering from treatment. He's an 11yr old Holsteiner.

Please no unnecessary unkind comments, I'm trying to do what's right for my lovely boy and my heart is breaking.

 

[ycbm]

You aren't being cruel and absolutely you are doing the right thing. He won't die, he will acclimatise, keep stuffing him with hay.
.

 

[Birker2020]

You aren't being cruel and absolutely you are doing the right thing. He won't die, he will acclimatise, keep stuffing him with hay.
.

I am vaguely aware of some discontent about how I'm managing him so its good to hear I'm doing ok. Thank you.

 

[Goldenstar]

No your not being cruel .
He will grow more coat it’s just takes a little while .
One of mine has a full clip and is out in a zero fill although it has grown in another has had two months stabled after surgery and was chaser clipped Thurday he’s wearing a no fill and is out .
He will tell you if he gets really miserable .

 

[Goldenstar]

I am vaguely aware of some discontent about how I'm managing him so its good to hear I'm doing ok. Thank you.

Try to ignore them , there’s always someone with too little to do .

 

[Birker2020]

Try to ignore them , there’s always someone with too little to do .

I know. To be fair I'd probably have felt the same if the tables were turned.

 

[HashRouge]

As the others have said, keep him well fed and he will be fine. I would also skip the no fill rain sheet once he is out of his small pen and can move around more (I'm assuming he'll go back out into a larger field/ with company).

 

[ycbm]

My rules would be no rain no rug.
No wind light rain no rug.
Heavy rain or medium rain with wind, light rug for now but wean him off it.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

Birker is he growing in a clip ?

 

[Auslander]

Agree - keep piling the hay into him, and try to lose the rug as soon as possible, so that he can regulate his temperature by fluffing his coat up. My naked horses are warmer than my rugged ones this morning, and I have some very fine coated TB types.

Re the ripples from other livery owners - yard owner needs to nip this in the bud sharpish. Go and have a chat with him/her, and ask if you can have some support for your decision to rough off. I would be livid if any of my owners made another one feel guilty about a perfectly sensible decision.

I know he is turned out alone, but if there is an option for him to go out with other horses, grab it. If he goes to the blood bank, he's going to have to learn to be a herd horse very quickly, so any preparation you can do to ease that transition will be better for him.

 

[Birker2020]

As the others have said, keep him well fed and he will be fine. I would also skip the no fill rain sheet once he is out of his small pen and can move around more (I'm assuming he'll go back out into a larger field/ with company).

He's in an individual paddock but can play with a gelding on either side over fence as evidenced by lost masks, bites on face, etc.

Its about 110m x 30m so a decent size.

I'm trying to leave him out at night until bonfire night when the hardcore 'keep out at night as long as possible gang'(of which I'm a staunch member) finally relent and bring them in at night for safety, we have 2 pubs within 1/4 mile who both do fireworks.

 

[Birker2020]

Birker is he growing in a clip ?

No I never got him off the starting block so to speak so he's not been clipped whilst I've owned him.

 

[Birker2020]

Agree - keep piling the hay into him, and try to lose the rug as soon as possible, so that he can regulate his temperature by fluffing his coat up. My naked horses are warmer than my rugged ones this morning, and I have some very fine coated TB types.

Re the ripples from other livery owners - yard owner needs to nip this in the bud sharpish. Go and have a chat with him/her, and ask if you can have some support for your decision to rough off. I would be livid if any of my owners made another one feel guilty about a perfectly sensible decision.

I know he is turned out alone, but if there is an option for him to go out with other horses, grab it. If he goes to the blood bank, he's going to have to learn to be a herd horse very quickly, so any preparation you can do to ease that transition will be better for him.

I know its something that's crossed my mind and I've thought about asking if he can go out in the herd but I'm worried in case he injures another horse.

The y.o has a couple of valuable event horses turned out in the herd horses and if anything was to happen it would be awful. Two horses managed to get in Lari's paddock once and cornered him and apparently he held his own very well, intumating he was a bit full on with them.

I wasn't there but this is what I was told. To be honest that doesn't prove anything either way but I'm not sure other owners would be happy if i introduced a horse with the associated risks that may bring, who is only going to be there for a few months anyway.

 

[Goldenstar]

No I never got him off the starting block so to speak so he's not been clipped whilst I've owned him.

Then don’t worry I would do as ycbm says unless it’s going to get you a lot of flack that makes you unhappy .

 

[Regandal]

He’ll be fine. Due to circumstances I had to let two of mine winter out. One wb and one tb type, used to being cosseted and stabled. They grew amazingly thick coats and didn’t need rugged. I’ve lost the photo of the pair of them grazing with unmelted snow on their backs, they were so well insulated. Amazing. They did have ad-lib hay as well.

Ears are not a good indicator of core temperature, feel deep into the armpit. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[tda]

Agree with all the above, keep him moving and eating and he will grow what he needs

 

[AmyMay]

I’ve never rugged a horse that’s being roughed off. So as others have said, hay, hay and more hay.

 

[Goldenstar]

I’ve never rugged a horse that’s being roughed off. So as others have said, hay.

unless he’s gaining weight .

 

[NR88]

unless he’s gaining weight .

Then soaked hay and no bucket feeds.

They need long stem fibre as trickle feeders. If the grass is gone it needs replaced for the horse's digestive health.

Another who wouldn't be rugging at all. The weather is only going to get worse so if a horse is rugged now it'll be wrong to do away with rugs further into winter and if the rugs aren't done away with then the horse isn't roughed off so...

No rugs, plenty of hay and company.

 

[Goldenstar]

If birker is keeping her horse in a complete bare paddock it will of course need some forage .
But I would just straw if the horse is gaining weight warmbloods can get very fat very easily and that won’t help this horse one bit .I would never give soaked hay unless there was truly no choice .
Its a waste of money I would give less .

 

[Birker2020]

If birker is keeping her horse in a complete bare paddock it will of course need some forage .
But I would just straw if the horse is gaining weight warmbloods can get very fat very easily and that won’t help this horse one bit .I would never give soaked hay unless there was truly no choice .
Its a waste of money I would give less .

Its not bare, its strip grazed and the top end has grown nicely. But i will obviously supplement with hay.

 

[paddy555]

I appreciate you are trying to do your best for him but I don't understand why you are roughing him off. I can see the point about him going out with other horses to get used to being in a herd as that is where he may end up but not otherwise.
He may be PTS in Jan. If so what is the point of trying to rough him off.
I would just carry on with his normal routine, obviously not clipping and definitely stopping the riding also cutting down on feed if he is unridden and subject to weight gain. I would do nothing to make his last 3 months any different. If he is cold and not used to it he won't understand why. The other point is I have no idea what is wrong with him. Clearly we could be looking at arthritis, muscle, stiffness etc which is going to be a lot more comfortable for him if he is warm. I would also consider bute to try and keep him comfortable. I never use unlined rain sheets in winter as they just make the horse cold. Even unrugged is better than that.

If he is not PTS in Jan and goes in April by then we will be coming into the warmer weather so he will cope unrugged a lot better and if he moves into a herd at the BB then he will move around a lot more and keep warm before roughing himself off before the following winter.

I have no problem with horses with winter coats living in fields with company unrugged but not in a small grass pen alone. In a field they can move around to get warm in a herd, when it is wet and windy they group together as a herd and switch off to endure the weather, In a small pen if he is cold then all he can do is stand and be cold. There is no stimulus from the rest of the herd to move around nor to move the same sort of distance.

Sorry but that is my view, I know it won't be appreciated but my thoughts would be with Lari's mental well being and keeping everything he is used to the same for his last few months.

In the meantime I would be visiting the BB in January when it is cold, wet and windy to see how the horses are kept and if they are doing well. I have no knowledge of BBs but to me there would be a difference between horses happily living out unrugged in a herd and "old crocks" who have been put into that lifestyle and who would be more comfortable with medication. . I know that comment won't be welcome but I would rather PTS than have that happen.

Flack jacket duly on.

 

[Dexter]

That is a very small space for a retired horse. Can you not find grass livery on a decent acreage for him if herd turnout isnt an option?

 

[Clodagh]

I appreciate you are trying to do your best for him but I don't understand why you are roughing him off. I can see the point about him going out with other horses to get used to being in a herd as that is where he may end up but not otherwise.
He may be PTS in Jan. If so what is the point of trying to rough him off.
I would just carry on with his normal routine, obviously not clipping and definitely stopping the riding also cutting down on feed if he is unridden and subject to weight gain. I would do nothing to make his last 3 months any different. If he is cold and not used to it he won't understand why. The other point is I have no idea what is wrong with him. Clearly we could be looking at arthritis, muscle, stiffness etc which is going to be a lot more comfortable for him if he is warm. I would also consider bute to try and keep him comfortable. I never use unlined rain sheets in winter as they just make the horse cold. Even unrugged is better than that.

If he is not PTS in Jan and goes in April by then we will be coming into the warmer weather so he will cope unrugged a lot better and if he moves into a herd at the BB then he will move around a lot more and keep warm before roughing himself off before the following winter.

I have no problem with horses with winter coats living in fields with company unrugged but not in a small grass pen alone. In a field they can move around to get warm in a herd, when it is wet and windy they group together as a herd and switch off to endure the weather, In a small pen if he is cold then all he can do is stand and be cold. There is no stimulus from the rest of the herd to move around nor to move the same sort of distance.

Sorry but that is my view, I know it won't be appreciated but my thoughts would be with Lari's mental well being and keeping everything he is used to the same for his last few months.

In the meantime I would be visiting the BB in January when it is cold, wet and windy to see how the horses are kept and if they are doing well. I have no knowledge of BBs but to me there would be a difference between horses happily living out unrugged in a herd and "old crocks" who have been put into that lifestyle and who would be more comfortable with medication. . I know that comment won't be welcome but I would rather PTS than have that happen.

Flack jacket duly on.

I completely agree with you. Why feed for warmth when a rug would do the job? I used to hunt and my horses would be roughed off over March and living out unshod come April. That was from clipped, hard feed and super fit.

 

[Lady Jane]

You are doing the right thing, if he drops off a little feed more hay first. The human hand is not good at judging surface temperature and the base of the ears doesn't mean much. I agree with @ycbm rugging policy, if he does go to the BB I would want to see he does OK roughed off first - so this winter. My vet recommends the BB as a good option but I believe they are quite choosy on who they accept. Without knowing why he is broken, we are not in a position to comment on your decision.
And minimal grooming so he gets good and greasy!

And remind other interfering liveries that over rugging is now the greatest horse management isssue in the UK after over feeding and letting them become over weight

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I completely agree with you. Why feed for warmth when a rug would do the job? I used to hunt and my horses would be roughed off over March and living out unshod come April. That was from clipped, hard feed and super fit.

I would always feed forage for warmth rather than rug but tbh I would pts before the weather turns very wet and cold. I can't honestly see that BB is going to be of any benefit to this horse, if it has now been decided that his issues can't be fixed.
I'm sorry, I know that it's a hard decision to make for a young horse, as I've had to do it 3 times.

 

[Clodagh]

I would always feed forage for warmth rather than rug but tbh I would pts before the weather turns very wet and cold. I can't honestly see that BB is going to be of any benefit to this horse, if it has now been decided that his issues can't be fixed.
I'm sorry, I know that it's a hard decision to make for a young horse, as I've had to do it 3 times.

I agree with you about pts. Especially if he’s not happy in herd turnout.
I think BB barn them in winter though? Thinking of Newmarket one.

 

[bonny]

Have you contacted the blood bank, I would worry that they won’t take him next year and you will be back to square one then. If he’s not going then what’s the point of roughing him off now.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s about what Birker finds easiest emotionally practically and financially.

 

[Red-1]

I would be happy with no rug and roughing off, but not in such a small space, especially alone, unless there could be a field shelter put there so he can choose in or out and get shelter from the wind. 30m wide is really very small.

I would have a look at a grass or track style livery over winter until you hear back from the blood bank. They will have a shelter and herd turnout. Either that or still stable overnight and have a no fill available for the worst of days.

I do hope he finds his place, he seems like a sweet boy.