Am I going about this right - roughing off?

[Birker2020]

I appreciate you are trying to do your best for him but I don't understand why you are roughing him off. I can see the point about him going out with other horses to get used to being in a herd as that is where he may end up but not otherwise.
He may be PTS in Jan. If so what is the point of trying to rough him off.
I would just carry on with his normal routine, obviously not clipping and definitely stopping the riding also cutting down on feed if he is unridden and subject to weight gain. I would do nothing to make his last 3 months any different. If he is cold and not used to it he won't understand why. The other point is I have no idea what is wrong with him. Clearly we could be looking at arthritis, muscle, stiffness etc which is going to be a lot more comfortable for him if he is warm. I would also consider bute to try and keep him comfortable. I never use unlined rain sheets in winter as they just make the horse cold. Even unrugged is better than that.

If he is not PTS in Jan and goes in April by then we will be coming into the warmer weather so he will cope unrugged a lot better and if he moves into a herd at the BB then he will move around a lot more and keep warm before roughing himself off before the following winter.

I have no problem with horses with winter coats living in fields with company unrugged but not in a small grass pen alone. In a field they can move around to get warm in a herd, when it is wet and windy they group together as a herd and switch off to endure the weather, In a small pen if he is cold then all he can do is stand and be cold. There is no stimulus from the rest of the herd to move around nor to move the same sort of distance.

Sorry but that is my view, I know it won't be appreciated but my thoughts would be with Lari's mental well being and keeping everything he is used to the same for his last few months.

In the meantime I would be visiting the BB in January when it is cold, wet and windy to see how the horses are kept and if they are doing well. I have no knowledge of BBs but to me there would be a difference between horses happily living out unrugged in a herd and "old crocks" who have been put into that lifestyle and who would be more comfortable with medication. . I know that comment won't be welcome but I would rather PTS than have that happen.

Flack jacket duly on.

Just to answer a couple of the things raised.

The horses are indoor barns at the blood bank from Oct - April and remain in their herds with adlib hay. Anyway they don't allow visitors due to biosecurity as they produce serum and plasma for labs so can't have outside interference/cross contamination although the horses in the summer can be seen from the road.

You've misunderstood. He's only in a pen for another few days as directed by the vet, he's just had £780 worth of treatment and to give him the best chance to be comfortable and for it to work is in a 25m pen at the moment. He's normally allowed the run of his paddock. His paddock is certainly big enough for one horse, sometimes its strip grazed due to the grass as its such good grazing.

 

[Birker2020]

I would be happy with no rug and roughing off, but not in such a small space, especially alone, unless there could be a field shelter put there so he can choose in or out and get shelter from the wind. 30m wide is really very small.

I would have a look at a grass or track style livery over winter until you hear back from the blood bank. They will have a shelter and herd turnout. Either that or still stable overnight and have a no fill available for the worst of days.

I do hope he finds his place, he seems like a sweet boy.

Partner says I've got dimensions wrong, its 220m x 60, I'm not very good at guessing.

No field shelter its a livery yard I'm on!

Yes he is a lovely boy and such a kind soul who doesn't deserve any of this which is why I've gone out of my way to try to have done everything possible for him including all the treatment and the 2.5k of my own money I've spent and 3.5k insurance. I've tried to give him the best chance.

 

[poiuytrewq]

My TB is being roughed off for his first winter out. He’s retired and living with my neighbour
He has no coat, not started to change at all but is wearing a LW. Personally I’d not have him rugged at all unless it’s horrible, I’ve just been to check and imo he’s a bit too warm but I don’t want to give neighbour the extra hassle of having to rug him up at night.
Your not being cruel at all. I wonder what people expect ?‍

 

[Birker2020]

I appreciate you are trying to do your best for him but I don't understand why you are roughing him off. I can see the point about him going out with other horses to get used to being in a herd as that is where he may end up but not otherwise.
He may be PTS in Jan. If so what is the point of trying to rough him off.
I would just carry on with his normal routine, obviously not clipping and definitely stopping the riding also cutting down on feed if he is unridden and subject to weight gain. I would do nothing to make his last 3 months any different. If he is cold and not used to it he won't understand why. The other point is I have no idea what is wrong with him. Clearly we could be looking at arthritis, muscle, stiffness etc which is going to be a lot more comfortable for him if he is warm. I would also consider bute to try and keep him comfortable. I never use unlined rain sheets in winter as they just make the horse cold. Even unrugged is better than that.

If he is not PTS in Jan and goes in April by then we will be coming into the warmer weather so he will cope unrugged a lot better and if he moves into a herd at the BB then he will move around a lot more and keep warm before roughing himself off before the following winter.



.

Fair point, you are probably right. Thanks

 

[Goldenstar]

I entirely disagree that no fill rugs make colder .
They provide protection from wind chill and from getting cold and wet .

 

[HashRouge]

I entirely disagree that no fill rugs make colder .
They provide protection from wind chill and from getting cold and wet .

Completely agree! It drives me nuts when people say this.

 

[HashRouge]

I know its something that's crossed my mind and I've thought about asking if he can go out in the herd but I'm worried in case he injures another horse.

The y.o has a couple of valuable event horses turned out in the herd horses and if anything was to happen it would be awful. Two horses managed to get in Lari's paddock once and cornered him and apparently he held his own very well, intumating he was a bit full on with them.

I wasn't there but this is what I was told. To be honest that doesn't prove anything either way but I'm not sure other owners would be happy if i introduced a horse with the associated risks that may bring, who is only going to be there for a few months anyway.

If it helps, we used to turn Lari out in company at Michael's. In fact, he was one of my reliable gang of about six geldings who could go out together in multiple different combinations (three was the max Michael would allow out together). Lari was always fine with the others, I'd have had no concerns about turning him out with a bigger herd.

 

[ester]

I'm confused why you'd need to rough off now to prepare for April but equally if he's not going to be in work I would give him as much opportunity to grow fluff as he wanted.

 

[paddy555]

I entirely disagree that no fill rugs make colder .
They provide protection from wind chill and from getting cold and wet .

really? I find they come in cold underneath yet a 100g identical rug they come in at a good temp. That is in cold wet weather. I use unlined if I need to for some reason in the summer and have recently as our temp as not dropped that much yet.

 

[Goldenstar]

really? I find they come in cold underneath yet a 100g identical rug they come in at a good temp. That is in cold wet weather. I use unlined if I need to for some reason in the summer and have recently as our temp as not dropped that much yet.

Yes that will be because the 100 gram is insulated and zero is not , the horse however is not warmer with no rug on out in the rain than it is in a zero out in the rain .

 

[pepperpots]

I found that an unfilled rug squashed my boys coat down and took away its own thermal properties. Without a rug his coat grew so thick that he was wet on the outside but dry near the skin. He was a native pony though.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I am 99% sure I have read somewhere that blood bank horses they will only keep them until they are 15yo, isn't Lari already 12? This might be worth checking to make sure before you decide to rough him off ready for the BB, as then he would only have an additional 2years before they PTS anyway and you would have no control over his pain levels in the meantime.

 

[Gloi]

I find they are a lot warmer with a no fill rug than without in wet, windy weather. In cold dry weather a rug isn't needed. I don't have a filled rug, he can have one of those when he's old.

 

[mossycup]

Having read your other thread, I'd be putting a cosy rug on him, feeding him all the lovely things this month while he can still get a wee bit of warmth on his back, then letting him go. A winter of misery will do neither you nor him any good

 

[Birker2020]

I am 99% sure I have read somewhere that blood bank horses they will only keep them until they are 15yo, isn't Lari already 12? This might be worth checking to make sure before you decide to rough him off ready for the BB, as then he would only have an additional 2years before they PTS anyway and you would have no control over his pain levels in the meantime.

That isn't right, there are horses inbthere 20's at the bloodbank.

 

[Birker2020]

Having read your other thread, I'd be putting a cosy rug on him, feeding him all the lovely things this month while he can still get a wee bit of warmth on his back, then letting him go. A winter of misery will do neither you nor him any good

He's not miserable where on earth have you got that from??? He's happy as a sandboy. He just won't stand up to work that's all. He's not in pain, 3.5k has ensured that. He's just sore when ridden hence why I won't 'work him through it' like most would despite the vet suggesting we can try.

Good grief talk about making it up as you go along! Incredible.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

That isn't right, there are horses inbthere 20's at the bloodbank.

Fair enough, I was told it a few years ago now so thought I would mention it just in case

 

[throwawayaccount]

Nothing to add but so sorry you’re in this position

 

[Slightlyconfused]

As the others have said, keep him well fed and he will be fine. I would also skip the no fill rain sheet once he is out of his small pen and can move around more (I'm assuming he'll go back out into a larger field/ with company).

This.

Rather than a 0 fill rug can you get 50g one for rain and when not raining just leave naked.

Reason is the horses coat keeps them warm by fluffing up and has air that gets trapped and warms. A 0 fill will, esp when wet, flatten the coat so this doesnt happen and horse is cold.

When i rough off tge have no rug unless its raining and then is a 50g/100g so their coat can still fluff right. If there is shelter i dont even put a rug on. Just make sure they have access to plenty of food.

 

[mossycup]

He's not miserable where on earth have you got that from??? He's happy as a sandboy. He just won't stand up to work that's all. He's not in pain, 3.5k has ensured that. He's just sore when ridden hence why I won't 'work him through it' like most would despite the vet suggesting we can try.

Good grief talk about making it up as you go along! Incredible.

Where did I say HE was miserable? Winter is indeed a misery - the cold, the mud, the everything being frozen, the additional worry, stress and expense that it brings....if the chances are that he may end up being pts in Spring, in who's best interests are you enduring a long winter for?

 

[Birker2020]

Where did I say HE was miserable? Winter is indeed a misery - the cold, the mud, the everything being frozen, the additional worry, stress and expense that it brings....if the chances are that he may end up being pts in Spring, in who's best interests are you enduring a long winter for?

Quite happy to keep over winter to be hopefully offered the chance to go to the bloodbank in the Spring. He'd love it there, it would suit him I think as he's very sociable.

I love him to bits so I am more than happy to pay for him to be kept whilst waiting.

 

[Fieldlife]

Yes that will be because the 100 gram is insulated and zero is not , the horse however is not warmer with no rug on out in the rain than it is in a zero out in the rain .

Think it depends. Are different thickness of no fill rugs. Some are double lined. Some are single sheet.

My horse has thin coat and is sometimes shivering early mornings at 6-7 degrees dry wind free weather. (Despite having shelter and adlib hay)

But he is also sometimes too hot in the evening if I put my no fill rug on, wait ten minutes and put my hand under rug. So clearly my no fill rug does make him warmer!

 

[Birker2020]

I'd like to say that during the night out in the paddock he's been having a rain sheet no fill rug on but when it's been raining overnight he's in a 50g

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

My rugged one still has his fly rug on underneath his no fill at night at the moment it just adds a bit of a layer so it is a bit warmer than it just sitting on the skin, I tend to use all my rugs with something underneath even if it's just a cotton summer sheet as it keeps the inside cleaner.

 

[ihatework]

The man thing to do is stop grooming him. Let him build up his natural defences over the winter. Then come spring he can start naked and continue from there if he is to go out full time in a herd

 

[tristar]

just slapped on the 200 gm` s this morning, they will stay like that all winter, except for days when it heats up above a certain temp

they all have boxes open onto yards for the night, they will not need clipping, and i have the supreme comfort of looking out of the window on a morning like this one when its blowing a gale and raining, and thinking how cozy they are, look so chuffed with themselves on the worst of days they love it, i love it.

the modern light rugs are fab