Am I going mad? What's wrong with this picture (video)?

[kiskadee]

Also, and I haven't decided what to do yet, there is no reason why turning out in a field with a herd would mean I couldn't bring him in every day. If I retire him (even temporarily) he will get treated just the same but without being ridden.

Agree he is very stiff behind but what I also notice is that he seem to have a lot of problems up in his poll area and top half of his neck. See how he carries his head to one side and also every time he goes to stretch down he jerks his head back so I would suggest that this is another area that needs investigating. Agree with other posters that time off to rest and relax would be helpful however, changing his home and turn out with new horses would be very stressful for him and as you say he is a very reactive horse. He just needs a nice steady field companion and a regular routine. Perhaps chiropracter and TTouch practitioner??

 

[First Flame]

Also, and I haven't decided what to do yet, there is no reason why turning out in a field with a herd would mean I couldn't bring him in every day. If I retire him (even temporarily) he will get treated just the same but without being ridden.

This! I have recently had to retire my advanced dressage horse as she has pulled her tendon off her hock, she is 21 years old. My vet advised me that completely turning her away would actually be detrimental to her health, so she is kept in her routine that she is happy with and gets plenty of turnout.

 

[Tnavas]

I agree with others about the turning away, but I would like to add, have the chiro work with him weekly for several months, and though a hillside paddock would help build muscle a flat paddock is best for this level of injury. You need to keep the pelvis even. Moving around on a slope will always be putting pressure on one side of the horse.

I do so hope that his problems heal, he is a lovely horse .

 

[Booboos]

Has the vet seen this video? I'm not a vet but I'd want to nerve block one leg to really see what is happening to the other one as, to me, he seems bilaterally lame behind. If I had to guess I would say stifle issues from the way he keeps his back so rigid.

I don't blame you for thinking of retiring him, sometimes enough is enough.

 

[BBP]

I emailed the video to the vets today but I think she isn't in today. He blocked to the near stifle in February and had it medicated and his sacroiliac was medicated a year ago. It's such a shame as 4 weeks ago he felt on brilliant form.

Rob Jackson is going to come back to assess him and I'll get my regular vets view. I need a really decent body worker to work alongside the chiro/osteo/vet which is why I'd thought of Richard Maxwell (I'd been thinking of having him to get advice on behaviour when hacking but obviously that's not a priority just now!). Even if I decide not to ride him I still want him as functionally right as I can. For now I'm just trying to take a deep breath and not take any big decisions until I've talked it through with the experts.

 

[old hand]

Are you insured? If so I would take him to a vet hospital I am sure with better diagnostics they will find it. To me it looks behind the saddle area but his hamstrings also look tight, he could be moving that way to protect the injury so it is not always where it looks to be.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Are you insured?

Not anymore IIRC. I think that the OP has already used up all the insurance money (and he's no longer worth insuring due to all the resulting exclusions) plus £5k of her own money trying to fix him already.

 

[YorksG]

Can you get access to a vet who does accupuncture? My mare had problems with her poll/neck and our local vet who does accupuncture came out to her and we saw a huge improvement, it also stopped her "stuttery" trot. We had him here again at the end of last year for a back problem and it again made a massive improvement. It may be worth a try.

 

[BBP]

Faracat is correct, he isn't insured any more as they had excluded everything based on the fact that I'd called the vets to check lumps and bumps on occasion (even had his head excluded because they recorded a mouth ulcer when he had his routine teeth check) so I had a strop and cancelled it.

I think one of the local vets at another practice does acupuncture, I'd been thinking of trying it for his allergies.

Last time the back guy came out he said my horses back was jammed in extension in the lumbar sacral region and that he couldn't physically step his hind end under without looking off because his back wouldn't flex to let him. After treatment the horse felt about a hand taller under saddle and on top of the world. He gave me a very careful rehab plan and told me no cantering til a few weeks in, but of course the pony goes and bombs around the field (even though I'd made it small), falls flat on his face, does whatever else crazy pony does and now looks like this, so we hadn't even got yo the adding in canter phase.

 

[Myloubylou]

It might be worth looking at diet, specifically your grass. I have an IR mare who was stiff behind, flicked her head out hacking & has been footsore the same time in the autumn a few times. I came across a website called calm healthy horse that talks about high potassium in grass causing all sorts of issues as There is inbalance in sodium. It recommends feeding salt in their feeds. I added a tablespoon per feed to my horse & she is much freer behind & doesn't shake her head nearly as much. Google feeding salt to horses, there is a lot of interesting articles & is cheap & I think non risky thing to try to see if it helps. My mare has salt lick too which she loves, apparently any excess is just peed out

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You need a better vet .
Poor you horrible position to be in .

Faracat is correct, he isn't insured any more as they had excluded everything based on the fact that I'd called the vets to check lumps and bumps on occasion (even had his head excluded because they recorded a mouth ulcer when he had his routine teeth check) so I had a strop and cancelled it.

I think one of the local vets at another practice does acupuncture, I'd been thinking of trying it for his allergies.

Last time the back guy came out he said my horses back was jammed in extension in the lumbar sacral region and that he couldn't physically step his hind end under without looking off because his back wouldn't flex to let him. After treatment the horse felt about a hand taller under saddle and on top of the world. He gave me a very careful rehab plan and told me no cantering til a few weeks in, but of course the pony goes and bombs around the field (even though I'd made it small), falls flat on his face, does whatever else crazy pony does and now looks like this, so we hadn't even got yo the adding in canter phase.

I know it's more expense but I would have got the Chico vet out again after that episode. In fact I would only use that vet. I really can't see the point of swapping between vets for what seems to be an ongoing problem. Although we do use our Chico/ACU vet for specific problems and a more reliable practice for everything else (c/a vet is a single vet practice)

 

[BBP]

I know it's more expense but I would have got the Chico vet out again after that episode. In fact I would only use that vet. I really can't see the point of swapping between vets for what seems to be an ongoing problem. Although we do use our Chico/ACU vet for specific problems and a more reliable practice for everything else (c/a vet is a single vet practice)

Its not the expense in this instance. My regular vets are at a major equine teaching hospital nearby. The chiro vet works freelance across the whole of the UK so I could be waiting 8 weeks or more for him to have enough clients in this area to be able to make it back. He is going to try to be here as soon as he can but I wanted to speak to my vets about it in the mean time.

 

[BBP]

It might be worth looking at diet, specifically your grass. I have an IR mare who was stiff behind, flicked her head out hacking & has been footsore the same time in the autumn a few times. I came across a website called calm healthy horse that talks about high potassium in grass causing all sorts of issues as There is inbalance in sodium. It recommends feeding salt in their feeds. I added a tablespoon per feed to my horse & she is much freer behind & doesn't shake her head nearly as much. Google feeding salt to horses, there is a lot of interesting articles & is cheap & I think non risky thing to try to see if it helps. My mare has salt lick too which she loves, apparently any excess is just peed out

I have looked quite carefully at his diet (had everything analysed) and had other people assess it and thought that the balance of sodium and chloride and potassium was more than good enough. However, having recently had some breakdown of diet by Malcolm from Equifeast it would appear i need to do some more sums, as what is high in forage may only be high from a crop health point of view rather than a horses RDA. I will try to do the sums on it tonight. I have real issues getting him to eat salt for some reason. I have tried loose table salt which even at half a pinch mixed in feed he won't eat, a himalayan lick he won't touch, a rockie lick he wont touch. Not sure why he's so anti it, so i figured he thought he was getting enough in the grass and hay. I will certainly look into it again though. Thanks for the reply.

 

[ester]

Have you had a forage analysis Kat?
Usually if they say 'high' that is high from a compared to what they have found nationally rather than anything to do with RDA.
I am unconvinced of the science behind equifeast, as are quite a few others I have found recently.
If you have an analysis I will happily have a look as I did the Maths on Franks at one point.

 

[BBP]

Have you had a forage analysis Kat?
Usually if they say 'high' that is high from a compared to what they have found nationally rather than anything to do with RDA.
I am unconvinced of the science behind equifeast, as are quite a few others I have found recently.
If you have an analysis I will happily have a look as I did the Maths on Franks at one point.

That's very kind, thank you. if you message me your email address I will send it through. I decided to try equifeast as my horse is pretty special needs with his RER calcium release issue and his science did convince me to take a shot at trying something different. I can send you what he wrote to me if you would like to see it and give your take on it? All the other things of adding Mg etc to his diet hasn't changed anything for me, so I thought I would change tack. It's a bit of a shame that I've trialled it at a time when other things have happened, allergies etc. That said, if he improves behaviour wise at this point then I will be incredibly impressed, and if he doesn't I will swap back. I don't think I replied to your tie up comment. I had wondered about that, but usually if he is muscle sore he wont stand for me grooming him whereas he is quite enjoying a good bum massage lately, so I have sort of ruled that one out. Interestingly for me, when the vet came out to do teeth a few weeks ago, she took bloods and for the first time since his steroid injections last year everything, muscle and liver was normal, and vitamin e had started to come up, although not yet normal. I will have to check my notes and see if he had felt at all off at that point or if that is when he felt great.

You guys are all so kind, its nice to sound out problems with horsey people who care but are not emotionally involved. I have had a cry and pulled myself together and am certainly never giving up on my horse, and there are a few things left to do. Finding out if he is mechanically knackered (unfixable) or if his kinetic chain is just muscularly messed up is the key I guess. (I currently have similar issues in that I have bizarre nerve and muscular problems in my head and neck that cause me all sorts of problems including anxiety and hyper reactiveness to noise, no one yet can diagnose me but I know if I get the right person I am fixable!) Luckily for me, whether or not I can ride him again is not massively important, so there is no pressure that he has to be doing this that or the other, I have all the time in the world and as long as he is still cheerful and bright I am happy enough to do what he wants.

 

[ITPersonnage]

I know this is said very often on HHO and sometimes glibly but really, he is so lucky to have found you , hugs

 

[AandK]

I have followed your story with this little horse, and am so sad for you and him that no one can get to the bottom of his issues. I really hope you can get him comfortable enough to enjoy just being a horse.

Did any of this coincide with a move or any event in his life at all?

Also wanted to add re forage analyisis, check out forage plus website, they do all that sort of thing and there are also some good articles to read on there too.

 

[JillA]

Have you had a forage analysis Kat?
Usually if they say 'high' that is high from a compared to what they have found nationally rather than anything to do with RDA.
I am unconvinced of the science behind equifeast, as are quite a few others I have found recently.
If you have an analysis I will happily have a look as I did the Maths on Franks at one point.

Completely agree - you need to know what your baseline is before you go chucking minerals at the job. Equifeast persuaded me I needed calcium without bothering to assess what my horses already got - thanks to a forage analysis from ForagePlus I do know my calcium is very high, and we have to balance it with magnesium. Sarah at Forageplus is very good, if you have a consistent supply of forage, get it analysed for minerals and then she will help you work out what to add and what not to. She also helped enormously recently with the diet of my underweight TB, looking at what protein he gets/should get from forage and bucket feeds

 

[BBP]

I know this is said very often on HHO and sometimes glibly but really, he is so lucky to have found you , hugs

We are lucky to have found each other. Before I had him I was very stressed and anxious. Now I am much more relaxed (bizarrely!). I know he needs me to be. I also have had to come to terms with the fact that i can't control everything and sometimes you have to take a deep breath, step back and let him be a daft silly horse without freaking out about what might happen to him. I've never had so much fun or laughed so much as when we are playing silly games, or he teaches me a new trick (that's usually how it works out, I start trying to teach him something and he shows me that that cue means something completely different!)

 

[BBP]

Completely agree - you need to know what your baseline is before you go chucking minerals at the job. Equifeast persuaded me I needed calcium without bothering to assess what my horses already got - thanks to a forage analysis from ForagePlus I do know my calcium is very high, and we have to balance it with magnesium. Sarah at Forageplus is very good, if you have a consistent supply of forage, get it analysed for minerals and then she will help you work out what to add and what not to. She also helped enormously recently with the diet of my underweight TB, looking at what protein he gets/should get from forage and bucket feeds

I had forage analysis done with forage plus but had no response from them when I asked for more help. What the guy from equifeast did is show me how the numbers on my forage analysis compare in real life terms to RDA and then doing the ratio analysis on the amount the horse is getting, not just what was on the chart. he did a very thorough job and answered every question I had (I have a lot!). its an experiment based on what i thought seemed quite sound principles for my horse, I appreciate I may be wrong so I will certainly let you know how I get on.

 

[BBP]

I have followed your story with this little horse, and am so sad for you and him that no one can get to the bottom of his issues. I really hope you can get him comfortable enough to enjoy just being a horse.

Did any of this coincide with a move or any event in his life at all?

Also wanted to add re forage analyisis, check out forage plus website, they do all that sort of thing and there are also some good articles to read on there too.

No major life event this time round. the intial trigger for sacroiliac injury 16 months ago was pigs being introduced in secret to the field behind him. they were behind a hedge and I had no idea they were there but he spent a few days in a complete panic with me completely confused as to why (his field was long and thin and against the hedge so plenty of space for running but not running away to a safe distance, he felt trapped). Obviously I moved when when i saw how stressed he was but i think he had already hurt himself. Sacroiliac jabs worked amazingly and he was transformed into this calm chilled happy horse. then I guess the systemic effect worse off and the allergy kicked in around June time and he went completely mad, we thought he had something crazy neoro going on but now i think its that the effect the steroid had delayed his allergy and when it came back he couldnt cope. he spent the whole summer stressed and miserable, then his best friend died and I have never seen such a distressing reaction in a horse, he then developed ulcers which we discovered in November. Over the winter these cleared brilliantly, he was back to super happy but not 100% right. Then I had his back done in march and he was brilliant again. Two weeks after that his allergy kicked in, he got stressed and bombed around and now we are here again. that's as short as I can summarise it!

 

[AandK]

No major life event this time round. the intial trigger for sacroiliac injury 16 months ago was pigs being introduced in secret to the field behind him. they were behind a hedge and I had no idea they were there but he spent a few days in a complete panic with me completely confused as to why (his field was long and thin and against the hedge so plenty of space for running but not running away to a safe distance, he felt trapped). Obviously I moved when when i saw how stressed he was but i think he had already hurt himself. Sacroiliac jabs worked amazingly and he was transformed into this calm chilled happy horse. then I guess the systemic effect worse off and the allergy kicked in around June time and he went completely mad, we thought he had something crazy neoro going on but now i think its that the effect the steroid had delayed his allergy and when it came back he couldnt cope. he spent the whole summer stressed and miserable, then his best friend died and I have never seen such a distressing reaction in a horse, he then developed ulcers which we discovered in November. Over the winter these cleared brilliantly, he was back to super happy but not 100% right. Then I had his back done in march and he was brilliant again. Two weeks after that his allergy kicked in, he got stressed and bombed around and now we are here again. that's as short as I can summarise it!

Poor chap! You say his allergies have kicked in since he was moved due to the pig issue, is there something at this new yard that could be causing his allergies?

 

[BBP]

Sorry, not a new yard, I just don't put him near the pigs anymore, or I make sure the field is big enough that he can graze on the other side of it from the pigs and let the braver ponies graze closer!