Am I going to know when it's the right time? :(

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Cedars

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Hi all.

God I feel so hideously guilty even writing this.

My OH and I have been talking today about Chloes future. Shes seen the vet again today, they have no idea what is going on and theyre going to start running tests next week-if we want them to. We're not sure whiter perhaps now is Chloes time to leave us.

After her hip op, she is able to go on walks but she gets so tired so quickly so they are more 'strolls around the block'. She LOVES swimming-absolutely adores it-but it's likely that the lake we swim her in has something in it that caused the problem this time, so she can't swim there, and we just cannot afford the £25 regularly to swim her at the pool. At best, she's getting one session a month now she doesnt need it-so now she will only get one session of real enjoyment a month.

She is itchy, constantly. The steroids are helping the itching massively, but she's incontinent on them. She is so, so, so upset that she wetting herself-she's absolutely desperately stressed, despite us reassuring her as best we can. Sometimes she's weeing on her bed, so she gets off it, and then lies on the cold floor so she is hurting her hips.

I love my darling Chloe, so so much. But I'm starting to think that because she's just such a walking medical car crash, she's constantly unhappy. In the last 10mobths, I think we've had about 3 weeks when she hasn't been ill in one way or the other. Is that fair on her?

Oh goodness I'm sorry for posting this. I just don't know how to make a decision when I'm so desperate to keep her with us. Xx
 
Poor Chloe, she really is going through it. In your shoes I would give time for the sterioids to work properly, my heeler I mentioned in your other thread didn't make an instant recovery, and for a while I considered pts, but she did recover and as I said had a long and healthy life. Why are your vets waiting till next week to run more tests I would have wanted them to have done fairly exhaustive tests already, and if necessary referred her if necessary to a specialist.
Re her hips still causing her problems, have you discussed this with the vet who did the op, as far as I am aware the whole point of the surgery is to remove the pain and give them a decent quality of life, certainly the dogs I have known of who have had it have been up to good long walks not just a stroll round the block. Is the tiredness perhaps just a general fitness thing and you could build her up gradually.
If you really feel she is desperately unhappy with no chance of improvement then maybe discuss your options with the vet, but I think if she were mine I would give her a bit longer for the treatment to work, and speak to the ortho vet about the hips.
 
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Firstly, what a lovely owner you are to put your dogs feelings and health first, a very hard thing to do!

My lab is getting on now, shes very stiff, she still wants to go for walks but again its just round the block. She walks with a limp and we now cannot let her go upstairs as she simply cannot make it back down. The has also began to have what we call "funny episodes" (cant remember medical name) but it basically knocks her sense of balance and awareness, so she panics because she cannot get up without falling over. They do not happen often, but are horrible to see. The first time it happened we thought she was having a stroke.

We have all decided that the day she cannot get up, or the day she has to go to the vets for something, will be the day she leaves us. This is such a horrible thing to think about, but we know she will have no life beyond this point.

Only you know your dog, none of us can say whether you should or shouldnt let her go. Personally, I think the fact that you have thought about this says a lot, but again I will not say yes or no! Maybe have a chat with your vet and see what they say.

Huge hugs xx
 
MurphysMinder said:
Poor Chloe, she really is going through it. In your shoes I would give time for the sterioids to work properly, my heeler I mentioned in your other thread didn't make an instant recovery, and for a while I considered pts, but she did recover and as I said had a long and healthy life. Why are your vets waiting till next week to run more tests I would have wanted them to have done fairly exhaustive tests already, and if necessary referred her if necessary to a specialist.
Re her hips still causing her problems, have you discussed this with the vet who did the op, as far as I am aware the whole point of the surgery is to remove the pain and give them a decent quality of life, certainly the dogs I have known of who have had it have been up to good long walks not just a stroll round the block. Is the tiredness perhaps just a general fitness thing and you could build her up gradually.
If you really feel she is desperately unhappy with no chance of improvement then maybe discuss your options with the vet, but I think if she were mine I would give her a bit longer for the treatment to work, and speak to the ortho vet about the hips.
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I agree with MM give it more time, then you will know youve tried every avenue. If after everything there is no improvement and she is still very miserable then make that difficult decision.

I do hope that the steroids soon start taking affect and she is restored to her former self.
 
Cedars, Im so sorry you and Chloe are having such a tough time. I have no idea where abouts you live but are you confident that your vets are doing the right thing, by this I mean do they have specialist knowledge or are they taking advice. The reason I ask is that, if she were mine, I would speak very frankly to my vet (I am lucky that I have an excellent practise and a senior vet who I trust implicitly to either know the answer, have the infrastructure to find out and if necessary tell me straight what is in the dogs best interest) and if they believe that even with all the testing and variations of treatment, that there is no guarantee of long term improvement, I would PTS sooner rather than later. I think its important to consider her quality of life now, as well as what may be, I believe that dogs, like horses, think of the here and now and dont see the bigger picture as we do. If she can be kept pain free and comfortable whilst treatment is ongoing then by all means, i would try anything that would help, but and this is a big but, if i thought she was truly miserable i would call it a day. A bit harsh, maybe, but I, like you appear to be saying in your OP, cant bear to see my dogs unhappy. Last Xmas time I lost my old ESS, she was nearly 14 but between Boxing Day and NYE she lost the use of one of her back legs and could no longer take herself outside. I was able to carry her out to the garden but she was so unhappy, you could see it in her eyes. It was an aggressive bone cancer, terminal but manageable for the short term. I chose to have her PTS so that she lost no dignity and suffered no pain. This is my personal opinion, please do not think I am judging anyone, Im not but if you do decide to call it a day no one will think any the less of you, quite the opposite I feel. Hugs x
 
The steroids have worked in that they have stopped the itching and the redness. But they're making her wet herself. So if she stays on them to help the itching (which she hates), she wets herself, but if she comes off them the itching starts.

I just don't know when we say enough is enough. This is her 11th medical intervention now.

Her hips don't cause her pain, but she just gets tired very quickly. I have spoken to the surgeon about it and he said that because she is a large dog (not as in overweight, just big), that will always happen regardless of fitness. She definitely will always be unable to do the 6hour hikes she was doing, which we knew would happen at the time of the surgery but it didn't seem like itd be a big problem then, particularly when she could swim. But now she can't swim...

I don't know the answer and I hate that. :(
 
Thanks myboyche, I do trust my vets and I will be speaking to many knowledgeable people around me (like swimming and brackens breeder etc..).

What you say about them thinking about here and now, not the future, is important to me. When she couldn't stand after surgery, we said, in the future she'll be happy. When she was inside for 3 months after we said, she'll be outside eventually. I can't bare to put her through all these tests again, thinking it'll be good in the long run, if she's going to be in pain NOW. it just doesn't seem fair.

Anyone reading this thinking about buying a dog from dodgy breeders, by the way-this is what happens. X
 
Poor Chloe! Im so sorry you are going through this - such a sad situation. She is a lucky dog to be loved so much.

If the steroids are so great with the itching why don't you try some dog nappies to help her stay dry when shes incontinent then at least she won't wet her bed and have to sleep on the floor.
 
I asked the vet about dog nappies but that's not allowed because it would hold the wet against her (already very damaged) skin apparently. Good thought though thank you xxx
 
Has the vet started reducing the steroids yet, our heeler was peeing everywhere when she first started on the steroids but we were able to find a dose which contained the symptoms but didnt cause the peeing . You many not necessarily be able to get her off them completely, just a low maintenance dose. Did you mention SLE (lupus) to him, her symptoms do sound typical, although of course if it is just a reaction to the water in the lake then fingers crossed it will improve now she is not being exposed to the water.
Re wetting her bed, does your vet sell vet beds. These are a specially designed medical bedding, the moisture soaks through so the dog is lying on a dry bed although the underneath is wet. Most breeders use it for rearing pups as it means the pups are kept dry.
I am not suggesting you keep her suffering, as you say dogs only live for today, but in my non veterinary experience you should find out if you can control the skin condition in a far shorter time frame than her recovery time from the hip surgery. As far as exercise, can you just let her play in fields in the immediate future so she does not get over tired.
 
Our local farm shop sell vet bed, I'm gonna pick some up on our way home.

Steroid dosage is now half of what it was with no change in the peeing! But will continue to decrease until we're back at the vets on next Thursday.

Ooohhhhh my poor puppy dog. Going to find a happy photo to add to this thread ...
 
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Im afraid Im on no position to comment as I know very little about the subject. However, the fact that your asking the question suggests theres still hope for her :) hang in there! I hope things get easier for you both soon, Im sure when the time does come there will be absolutely no question in your mind xx
 
She is gorgeous. Poor thing, all that she's going through. With our old GSD, we made the decision when he could no longer control his bowel, and was obviously upset about not going to the loo outside.. With him, there was no cure, so we knew that we had to make the decision one day..

Have you spoken to your vets about how you're feeling? I trust our vet to be honest and help us make that decision. Some vets aren't that helpful and leave it up to you. Personally, I don't trust my own decisions and need someone to say, no give it a bit longer, or perhaps it is time..

Good luck.x
 
How old is Chloe? For some reason I thought she was still very young, under a year old? But then it always shocks me how quickly time passes!

But my point is - exactly when was she doing 6hr walks, how often and at what age?
 
Rw, I am not exactly sure how old Chloe is but she is only a young dog,which I don't think a lot of posters on here realise, that is why I am encouraging Cedars to explore every avenue. How is she anyhow Cedars?
 
I am sure, if memory serves me right, that Chloe had her hip op earlier this year? So obviously she was doing 6 hour walks before that - surely she must have been under 12 months. Thats shocking :( (if it is indeed correct of course)

Cedars is your new puppy having the same exercise regime that Chloe had? If so - please stop, do not ruin another dogs joints.

As for the itching - hasn't it only been a week? Give it time, as the dog is young and otherwise healthy she has every chance of making a full recovery very soon.
 
Hi guys :)

Chloe is now 2.5years old.

She is a mixed bag at the moment. As she is coming down off the steroids (she's on a quarter of what she has been on) she is now dry about 20% of the time-which is less distressing-but frustratingly is becoming more itchy. Back at the vets on Thursday and we are decided about whether we go for the testing. I think we are going to have the 'obvious' testing done, but not the really intrusive ones-it's not fair. Xxxx
 
Cedars fingers crossed the vets can find out what is causing this and she can have a normal life, poor little soul and only 2yrs 5mnths.

I saw your post on the contensious thread and thought it was very brave of you to post it, a lot of people who were against our reaction have no idea what the reality is like, unfortunately you have living proof of it but either people just dont listen or they are not that bothered. Its all very sad.
 
Cedars said:
Hi guys :)

Chloe is now 2.5years old.

She is a mixed bag at the moment. As she is coming down off the steroids (she's on a quarter of what she has been on) she is now dry about 20% of the time-which is less distressing-but frustratingly is becoming more itchy. Back at the vets on Thursday and we are decided about whether we go for the testing. I think we are going to have the 'obvious' testing done, but not the really intrusive ones-it's not fair. Xxxx
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I have not read the full thread so sorry if any of this is mentioned or you have already tried.
Has she been skin tested? If not you may well find out what is is allergic too and the vets may be able to try immunotherapy.
Has she been put on to a exclusion diet? Try something like a Fish and potato diet only with nothing else ie treats bones etc to rule out a food allergy.
Has the vet tried baths? a shampoo such as Etiderm or sebomild p might help maybe?
Is her flea treatment right up to date maybe a six week course of stronghold?
lastly has your vet suggested a specialist dermatologist?

I know skin conditions can be horrible but there are ways to keep it under control.
Good luck with her.
 
Just an update.

She's dropped down another dose of steroids yesterday and today her skin is awful. Flaky and dandruffy and itchy.

I can't stop crying, to be honest.
 
I can't do anything until shes finished this course of tablets-vet won't see me til Tuesday. And im not sure I want her skin scraped, sounds like that would be painful. Cx
 
It may well be-it is the way to diagnose Mange, which might require baths with special washes that you would only give for eg. demodectic mange-which it very much could well be. It is most certainly a very routine test, she won't even notice after its done and barely during it if she's like most labs. Definitely not something you would choose between doing it and PTS for example. I am really suspicious of demodex I have to say, I am surprised your vet didn't offer skin scrapes for a dog presenting like her in the first place.
Atopica is excellent for itching dogs that have no identifiable cause-I have to say I'd also be hesitant to go down allergy testing purely as it doesn't alwasy give an answer. If you're given the option-definitely give it a go. OF course without seeing your dog none of us can say that there is not a reason she can't go on it so do ask your vet.
 
It should not be painful, they will only take a small sample of skin. Has she had isdt test? If not then I would get this done as it will tell you what shes allergic too
 
She's not had any testing yet as she was so poorly she needed all the steroids etc to bring her back down to a place where she wasnt doing herself injury.
Having just read about skin scraping it sounds horrific, and it tests for parasites which we are all absolutely convinced that it is not. Ive just been reading about Sensitest, which seems to be one blood test, which I am much happier with.
 
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