Am I hard or just realistic and humane?

[JennBags]

Realistic and humane sometimes means being hard. So yes, maybe both. FWIW I agree with you completely.

I agree with this, and with Maesfen; I think some people are deliberately taking some of her sentences out of context to make it sound as if she is uncaring.

I always say if you're not prepared to have an animal PTS when the time is right for them, then you shouldn't be afforded the privilege of having an animal.

I had to have my horse PTS last year; I didn't post about it on here beforehand because I knew I was making the right decision, and I didn't see any point in soliciting sympathy from a load of strangers, or have anyone tell me that I was making the wrong decision.

I found that I actually got quite irritated by all the people afterwards who kept telling me how brave etc I was. No, I was being realistic.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Try being in my position and having you beloved horses life in your hands....

Then maybe you will understand the heartache and pain.

Oh dear!

Many of the posters on this thread, and in particular OP, have been through the experience multiple times.

I do think that the first time is always the worst and no matter how attached you are to subsequent horses, it is easier to make the decision because you are not stepping into the unknown.
This doesn't mean that you are unmoved by either the horse's pain, or your own loss but that you are better able to deal with it.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

Hiya, you are both. I agree to an extent with what you say but I think being around horses professionally does give you a different slant than horse owners who aren't professionals. I see on my yard the yard horses are dispatched quickly as soon as there is an issue or even just because they are old, YOs know that the liverys don't like this so they keep quiet about it. They have had s lot of horses in their time and don't view them in the same way. The rest of us actually own relatively few horses in our lifetime and they become family members. This makes the decision and the timing harder I feel. Neither is right or wrong, death and loss is handled by different people in different ways, as a very matter of fact person usually I know I will be devastated when the time comes for any of my
horses, but I will do what's needed.

 

[Eaglestone]

I think you are being hard, but it is your choice and yours alone and that's fine by me. As long as someone does not try and force their thoughts/ethics/conscience onto me, as at the end of the day it would be 'me' that would have to live with the decision that I ultimately made.

I live with the memory of my Mum saying 'if I were an animal, I would be put down'. Well I now think of those words, whenever one of my animals comes to the end of its life ......... and for me a horse is so different, as you cannot just take it home, to either bury it, or quietly take it personally to be cremated.

These are all my thoughts and opinions and anyone else can do what they feel they want or have to do ..... as long as they leave me alone to make my own decision ... amen

 

[Achinghips]

It is good Maesfen that you have backpedalled somewhat in the insensitive manner of your original post, using words like "claptrap", implies you are dismissive and hard of others feelings. You come across as a little more feeling in your second and I am sure those facing such difficult decisions now and enduring this pain currently will be less angry with you.

 

[noodle_]

Realistic and humane sometimes means being hard. So yes, maybe both. FWIW I agree with you completely.

this.


my animals come first - so therefore im humane and in one case very tough, however i have no regrets putting any of my animals down when i did.

One person made me feel awful abou tputting my horse down - i knew i was right as were had no more funds, horse was lame again etc - but i put him to sleep as it was for him more than me....

So yes OP, i totally agree with you




I think sometimes its easier when you love your animals so much you want to do whats best for them.... and to me that includes pts.

 

[TicTac]

I do believe that some horses are kept going for their humans rather than themselves. However, personally I think that it is more often than not a hard decision to have a horse PTS despite whatever the problem is. ( all barring tragic accident)

Most leisure riders horses probably fall under the heading of pets. They dont have to earn their keep and they become part of the family and as that member of the family, will get offered every treatment going.

However, as others have said, I do believe that the vets of today have so much technology at their disposal that they can often be the root of the problem in not advising euthanasia earlier.

I had a lovely horse called Alby who was one of the best I'd ever had. He had a couple of manageable problems untill one day he came out of his stable unable to walk in a straight line. To cut a very long story short after a bone scan he was diagnosed with kissing spine, a fractured pelvis and 3 x bone cysts.

The vets told me that I could set up 3 claims for the 3 different problems. ( plus I allready had 2 live claims for COPD and a digestive problem) The pelvic fracture alone required 8-12 months box rest, then they would do op for bone cysts and then op for ks! They also told me that it was highly unlikely that the horse would even paddock sound after. THEY WOULD NOT WRITE HIM OFF. So I made the decision to have him PTS. I lost out financially and I lost my horse but I had to be realistic.

Some people didn't agree with me as they think I didn't give the horse a chance. I have learned over the years to become ' realistic' in these matters. I do not have a bottomless pit of money or every hour god sends to look after a chronically sick horse. However that does not make me hard or uncaring as I have nursed several of my other horses back to health through various traumas, including my current mare.

 

[Amaranta]

It is good Maesfen that you have backpedalled somewhat in the insensitive manner of your original post, using words like "claptrap", implies you are dismissive and hard of others feelings. You come across as a little more feeling in your second and I am sure those facing such difficult decisions now and enduring this pain currently will be less angry with you.

Actually, I am now wondering if Maesfen wrote the opening post in frustration, having myself now read the pts thread I can understand her frustration.

 

[Brimmers]

I had to have my horse PTS last year; I didn't post about it on here beforehand because I knew I was making the right decision, and I didn't see any point in soliciting sympathy from a load of strangers, or have anyone tell me that I was making the wrong decision.

I found that I actually got quite irritated by all the people afterwards who kept telling me how brave etc I was. No, I was being realistic.

thats fine if you dont want to post on here or have any sympathy after having a horse put to sleep. obviously, its your choice
however, this forum is supposed to be supportive, and for some people, having a complete stranger say "sorry for your loss, hope your ok" can be reassuring and could make someone feel a bit better.

so if you dont want to post on here about it. fine. dont. but dont condem others because they do. people deal with things differently and shouldn't have to be judged for it

 

[snopuma]

If its an easy decision for you I pity you, you must clearly devoid of a heart and/or a brain.

Of course its a hard decision for an owner, its saying goodbye and knowing in that final moment that the animal you have loved and looked after is at your mercy and you have made the decision to end its life for whatever reason it is hard.

 

[Flame_]

Its just sugar coating and being gentle with people that some people expect more than others. I remember a very poetic, very kind, very well written, long winded post on this forum by Box-of-Frogs to someone having to make the decision. I would have said "just shoot it", which was, Imo getting to the point but obviously, to people of more sensitive natures, unfeeling, etc etc. Some people just like things dressed up a bit more sensitively, that's all, but they still want to do the right thing for their horses.

 

[JennBags]

thats fine if you dont want to post on here or have any sympathy after having a horse put to sleep. obviously, its your choice
however, this forum is supposed to be supportive, and for some people, having a complete stranger say "sorry for your loss, hope your ok" can be reassuring and could make someone feel a bit better.

so if you dont want to post on here about it. fine. dont. but dont condem others because they do. people deal with things differently and shouldn't have to be judged for it

I wasn't aware that I was condemning anyone for posting

I don't understand people who post saying "shall I have my horse PTS?" No-one but the owner can make that decision; and unless it is someone you know (either in RL or from interaction on the forum), you don't know who the person on the other end of the computer is, or what their experience or knowledge is. That doesn't mean I condemn anyone who does post - although sometimes it appears to be people who are wallowing in self-pity; and nothing to do with the horse's welfare.

I did in fact post about my horse AFTER he had been PTS, and did get a lot of support from people saying their were sorry for my loss etc, which shows how lovely this forum can be

My comment with regards to people irritating me about how brave I'd been was in relation to people in RL. Part of the irritation came from not really wanting to talk about it as it did upset me greatly; but that's just the way I am - I am not the sort of person to wear their heart on their sleeve.

 

[Maesfen]

Just because people might find the decision difficult does not mean they are selfish or acting in any other interest than the good of the horse. The decision is painful because it is deciding to end a life.....if you don't understand this or struggle to show any empathy towards owners at this difficult time then I think yes you probably have become 'hard' after being in the game for too long.

I've never said it's easy on yourself but if the decision needs taking, then that is easy because you are doing your best for your animal. Does that make sense?

I think that sometimes people are too quick to PTS and any loving owner wants to make sure that they make the right decision for their animal. It must be lovely to be so sure of yourself that PTS is absolutely the right thing to do.

All I'm asking is for people to be realistic for the sake of their animals; is that really such a hard thing to do when they actually want the same thing?

I totally agree that although making the decision to have an animal pts is not a brave, sometimes it can be difficult. You have to decide whether to put a much loved creature through the short term discomfort of tests and treatment in the hope it lives a long and happy life after, or to pts. I chose the latter with our old dog, and with my old mare too, but would never critisise someone who dithers about what to do.

Yes, agree with you. I am not criticizing those that dither, it's not my place, I'm not their vet, friend or family but I do criticize those that insist that any life, no matter what pain or disability that animal has is better than no life at all.

realistic yes that's what you are as am I. I too have been around horses for more than forty years and am often asked for advice by people I have learnt you need to tread very gently on this issue.
People who have horses because they adore caring for it and riding are just stunned when the reality of what happens when these large animals go physically wrong, usually horses dont just die the deed has to done and the owner is the one that has to take the desision.
OP some people are being really brave when they take the decision the desision to PTS because they just don't see it like we do.

I agree, it's very hard in those cases, best wishes to your friend.

My motto is, " better a day too soon than a day too late."
Agree with OP. Doesn't mean I don't love my animals.

Terri

I think that's what people find hard to accept that even though we do the right thing for the animals that somehow we don't love them enough. I say it's because we do love them enough that we're unwilling to see them suffer when there's no need.
I'm not saying others don't love their animals; God forbid, I'm not that stupid, I'd be lynched but all I ask is that they (and those that think any life is better than an end to pain and misery) should be realistic enough to know when to call it a day.

I totally agree Maesfen. I believe you are what is termed "all for the horse", and better the owner suffers emotionally than the horse does physically.

Thank you.

I too think that the animal must always come first. I think in some cases tho if its the first time they've faced that decision people often want reassuring they are doing the best thing. I've been in the position myself & seen it happen to others where witless selfish people will condemn an owner for pts an animal that has reached its time because from their selfish Pov they'd keep it going at any cost to keep themselves happy. If you are strong or experienced enough to tell interfering fools where to go, that's fine, but if its the first time you've been in that position you sometimes need someone to tell you it is the right thing to do.

Totally agree with you.

Maesfen and many of us have been in your position and we do understand the heartache and pain and shed many a tear over the loss of a loyal servant and friend.

But.......it is crucial to know when the time has come, be it old age, illness, disability or all three. Even more crucially it is vital the horse is cared for correctly at the end of his life.

Amen to that.

OP yes you are being hard.
It is very difficult to come to the right decision and heartbreaking for those of us who keep our horses as our companions ...
I actually found your post heartless and unsympathetic. I don't think anyone I know keeps their horse in pain when there is no other option, but it doesn't make the decision any easier.

I think you'll find that several people keep their animals in pain because they are too upset to let go and yes, that is selfish, sorry.

I'm inclined to agree with Maesfen. No-one is saying pts is a nice decision to make but it's one that anyone who has horses has to make at some point.
I'm sure there are people that will call me harsh but it was not a difficult decision to make. I just did the right thing for my horse which is what everyone should do.

I'm so sorry about your mare but you did the right thing for her,

I still have my first horse and we've been together for over 20 years. I love that horse and I try to do everything I can to keep him happy in his old age. Every day I see him alive I breathe a sigh of relief.

I know there will be an end.

But knowing that doesn't mean I won't be devastated by it.

Even my husband is terrified of me losing Obi.

So when the time comes, I will appreciate people being sensitive and compassionate.
On here, a horse forum, I would expect that at least.

You needn't doubt it Oberon; everyone will be here for you.
Nobody is saying compassion shouldn't be shown at all, it would be very sad if that happened.

..what people are finding contentious is this statement by Maesfen: -

"To do any less or dally because 'you can't bare to be without him/her' is the height of selfishness or do I now live in a cloud cuckoo land where people always put themselves before their horses and sod the poor horse because they can't have their feelings hurt?"

This israther simplistic and based on a logically fallacious argument and makes her appear insensitive/hard, as she herself suggests.

I am a simple person! To do less than the best for your animal, whatever that may be, is being selfish because it is only you that has any benefit.

I see what you mean OP. But I don't really ever know what to say other than to fall back on the time honoured platitudes when someone posts about having had to PTS. So I say it anyway as I do want to express my sympathy. I'm a pretty pragmatic girl myself but it is painful to lose a friend and I do sympathise when people have to let one go.

So yes, you are realistic and yes you are right that we should all have the horses's welfare at the forefront of our minds. Perhaps the way to look at it is this; to not let a horse go when you should, because you are too weak, is decidedly cowardly. So if you have done the right thing you are not cowardly and perhaps therefore you are being a teensy bit brave? Do you follow my logic at all?! Probably not, I'm not good at expressing myself these days!

For the record, no you aren't hard. Nor am I. We are realists . That's what I tell people when they say I'm hard anyway.

I follow your logic perfectly!

If you come to a point where making that final choice becomes easy then its time you gave up having animals. It may well be the right choice but if you can make it without heartache then you are hard and should walk away from having animals.

Who said anything about not being heartbroken, I certainly didn't? I regret each one of my horses/pets passing, I still miss them all like mad but if the choice needs to be made for their benefit, it's an easy choice to make as I will not see any of them suffer because of me.

 

[YorksG]

When my mother was very ill three years ago, her prognosis was poor. The medics informed us that though she may live, she would be brain damaged by the toxins from her infection. I will never forget the look on the doctors face when my father, who loved my mother dearly and had been with her for 55 years, said no to ICU and that he would not put his dog through that. He and my mother had been of the same view all their married lives. They had had many anmals and always believed that quality of life was more important than quantity. So to those who believe it is a hard decision about a horse, please think about the quality of life for the animal.

 

[touchstone]

I think that quality of life sums it up for me too; if a horse is suffering either physically or mentally and has little quality of life then yes it is an easy decision to make, which is what I believe Maesfen means, even though it might tear the owner apart to lose the horse.

Years ago horses seemed to be used more as a commodity, if it didn't work it was shot, and although mine will hopefully have a long and happy retirement when unable to work, I do think that pts when no longer useful saved a fair bit of unnecessary suffering. Life at all costs is unacceptable to me, and the saying that 'where there is life there is hope' doesn't do it for me either, it depends on what quality or not that life has.

I've seen old horses crippled with arthritis and in awful condition that are kept going because the owner 'loves them so much.' In my book that isn't love, that is simply selfish. People nowadays seem to struggle so much more with making that decision, even when advised to by vets. I know vets can get it wrong, but I'd be listening long and hard if a vet told me to pts. In my experience they don't say that lightly. Horses tend to be pretty stoic creatures and when suffering is obvious then I think it is quite severe.

I am also a firm believer in better a day too soon than a day too late, if you can prevent even an hours suffering then that has to be better for the horse.

I recently had to euthanise two of my beloved dogs, before their condition deteriorated to the point that they were suffering. The vets shared my view that it was better early than late and although I miss them dreadfully, I have no guilt about letting them go.

Of course losing a horse isn't easy, but it can be an easy decision.

 

[Shantara]

You can be brave and realistic. Thinking about having my kitty PTS is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. My heart is shattered by the whole thing. I don't expect sympathy, but having someone to talk to who's been in my situation helps.
Having read your later posts, I'm glad you backtracked a bit and showed you actually do care. I was honestly shocked by your OP!

 

[zaminda]

It is a hard decision. Sometimes they make it easy, and sometimes they don't. My ex has a horse who has been at deaths door several times, once with a burst blood vessel, and the vet wanted to put her down. He refused, and she was on her feet after a diffuclt night screaming for her breakfast. Was he cruel to keep going? Well the horse has had another 11 years of mainly happy life (kissing spine surgery in the middle) and is still being a hooligan aged 22 so I think not.

 

[Janah]

I haven't read the whole thread. Better a day too soon than a day too late.

I actually said to my staff the other day that I hoped my pony went before I did! I am an older owner with an ageing pony. It would be devastating but I know he would be safe! They were quite gobsmacked.

At the end of the day, to use an over used statement, the horse/animal comes first and there are worse outcomes than to be PTS in a calm and sympathetic environment.

 

[henryhorn]

I don't think it's ever an easy decision to make but I don't think that's what the original poster is saying, what she's saying is despite the pain for yourself you just have to put the animal's needs first and do it. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt but it has to be done.
I also think it's a different decision for someone with just the one horse; when you have a few it is different I think.
I have to make the decision sometimes several times a year, if they are retired liveries it can be done from a view without excess emotion as they aren't mine. When however we had to euthanise a four year old due to a raging infection it knocked me for six for several weeks, despite me knowing there really was no other option.
My fastest decision was when my adored ancient gelding came in for a tooth check with the vet as he was losing condition, and we found he had barely a tooth left in his mouth. With only the option of giving him mashes for the rest of his life and him preferring life within the main herd I had him pts within five minutes of the diagnosis. Sometimes despite the distress, you just have to be sensible as maesfen says and think of the horse not yourself. I had owned him 21 years, he'd been my horse of a lifetime and I knew he was looking miserable, but yes, it hurt..

 

[superted1989]

I am still totally devasted from losing Ted 18 months ago. He was fully retired through arthritis but still had a routine to his life that he enjoyed. With all my horses, I've always said if they're in pain, or, there was a compromise to their quality of life, they would, and have been, PTS. Really struggled with Ted though, he looked spectacular right to the last minute, but he was having 6 danilon a day just to be able to put his head to the floor.
Not long after, I bumped into a horsey person I vaguely know, who'd heard Ted had gone. She launched into a lecture about how I had failed in my duty to look after him by 'giving up'. I'm not quite sure how I restrained myself from punching her to the ground. How can it be fair to keep such a powerful, noble animal in a situation where it can become uncomfortable?

 

[Shantara]

It is a hard decision. Sometimes they make it easy, and sometimes they don't. My ex has a horse who has been at deaths door several times, once with a burst blood vessel, and the vet wanted to put her down. He refused, and she was on her feet after a diffuclt night screaming for her breakfast. Was he cruel to keep going? Well the horse has had another 11 years of mainly happy life (kissing spine surgery in the middle) and is still being a hooligan aged 22 so I think not.

So true, I think it's very very very hard to make the absolute correct choice. My dog was very hit and miss for a few days when she had her 2nd stroke, but we kept her going.
After a short break, she's back to having 4 decent walks a day and a very long one at the weekend. Sometimes it's cruel to keep them going, other times they can fight and regain the good life they had.

 

[ester]

I think sometimes problems come/decisions are harder when 'quality of life' is so subjective and does somewhat require you to be reading your horse correctly, some being much more stoic about things that others.

Frank has been lame of late, it's still a work in progress but was back up to 4/10thsish again recently and did have a chat with the vet about pain reception. Now he said that he doesn't think he is walking about the field thinking cor my feet hurt, (fwiw I don't either as I have seen what else he does in the field) but we won't really ever know unless there are other obvious signs of pain appearing (depressed appetite, weight loss etc) it is all a bit guesswork.

 

[Ibblebibble]

it is hard emotionally and i think no matter how many times you have to make that decision it will always be a sad decision rather than a happy one!! At first reading the OP's first post does seem rather scathing of people who feel emotional over the decision, reading on through the thread i don't think that was the intention, more a frustration at people who faff about over the decision wanting others to make it for them whilst leaving a horse to suffer.

I am 'hard' in the fact that i have always refused to put an of my pets through major surgery or prolong their lives for my benefit by pumping them full of drugs. I would rather a month too soon than a day too late. it's nothing to do with the cost of the treatments , i just don't agree with some of the things we put animals through to keep them alive to make us feel better.

 

[misterjinglejay]

We take these animals as our own, look after them, and love them. PTS, whilst being horrendously upsetting is the last kindness we can show them.
Definitely a day too early, rather than too late.

 

[TheoryX1]

OP, I dont think you are being hard, just pragmatic and realistic. I agree with the statement of better a day too early, than a day too late. I 've had cats and dogs all my life until recently and before that, when at home with mum and dad. I've always viewed it as utterly heartbraking having a beloved pet pts, but it really is the final kindness you can give them, and you WILL know when its time.

I came to horse ownership only in the last 8 years and own a 19 year old cob, who is with me for life. I know I will have to face that decision at some point - unless we are lucky, he wont just go to sleep peacefully in the field, or his stable. However, its his needs, and those of of my other horses that will come first, and when that decision has to be made, it will be done, I will hopefully be with him at the end, it will break my heart, but it will be done - hopefully a day too early, not a day too late.

 

[lazybee]

I've been there many times. It is always sad, it always hurts but there comes a time when all owners should put their horse first and their own feelings aside and I'm sorry you're going through it right now.

I agree with this. Of course it's hard. Your own emotions have to be placed to one side an the animal MUST come first. To prolong suffering is not in the horses interest. So therefore it is selfishness on the part of the owner. We owe it to them when the time comes, to be strong and do the right thing. When a horse can no longer behave like a horse or has no prospect of returning to a happy life. The decision is already made. It is your duty and is all part of being a responsible owner. A few week afterwards you can even take comfort from the fact that you've made the right decision and you'll start to look back all the good times you've had together.

 

[Enfys]

Maybe it's because I've been around horses for a very long time including nearly forty years professionally but I'm getting more and more narked with those that post on PTS threads about what a hard decision it is and how brave the owner's being.

That is such a load of clap-trap.

Why is it hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse out of misery from illness, lameness, misery or plain old age? To let it go on in pain which is untreatable or non-recoverable from is the height of cruelty, nothing more and nothing less and those that do this should be ashamed for putting themselves before their horses.

Surely everyone should have the well being of the horse at the centre of their minds and if that means putting down so be it? To do any less or dally because 'you can't bare to be without him/her' is the height of selfishness or do I now live in a cloud cuckoo land where people always put themselves before their horses and sod the poor horse because they can't have their feelings hurt?

Yes, it's hard to lose a pet of any description but you go into ownership knowing you are likely to outlive it and a decision will have to be made at some point; they don't all curl up and go for a never ending sleep; it would be very nice if they (and even people) did but they don't. People have to put up with their infirmities but an animal doesn't if it has caring owners that always put it first. Please be one of those owners, your pet/horse will thank you for it.

Absolutely.

I do not find it hard to make the decision, if an animal, any animal, is sick, injured, or at the end of their days then why is it so hard? I am neither hard, nor heartless, just realistic about my responsibilities.

Do you know what? I wish ending human suffering could be ended as simply.

I stand by my oft repeated belief that a horse does not know that "Today is the day"

Send them off with their head in a pail of oats and a kind word in their ear.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Because it hurts like hell to make that decision and see it through and some decisions are not that straightforward - how much pain is any one horse in - some are obvious, some are not.

Too many people leave it too late, but I understand their pain.

^^^This^^^

Our emotions and our compassion is part of what it is to be human. I too, have been around horses for years, not 40, as I'm not 40 years old just yet...!

However, the pain of knowing your beloved pet won't be there anymore is a damn hard thing to deal with. After all, why the heck do we have animals? For companionship, and because we love them. If someone told me I was being a pansy for crying over my horse because he/she had to be PTS, I'd probably sock them one in the nose.....

 

[mulledwhine]

The day I think that it is an easy descision to put any animal I have the pleasure if sharing my life with, them I shall give up owning animals !!

 

[Achinghips]

Having read your later posts, I'm glad you backtracked a bit and showed you actually do care. I was honestly shocked by your OP!

This^^ We need to be mindful of how we come across, esp when we are a little older and have lived through heartbreak which has made us stronger, some people are younger and they haven't done this yet and it doesn't make their experiences and how they cope any less valid