Am I hard or just realistic and humane?

I've told this story a few times, but i will again in case it helps anyone decide.

My beloved Baba (dog) had to be put down when he was 13. For about a week prior to this he went steadily and quickly downhill. I loved that dog so much, I couldn't bear it to be the end. So the vet gave me this and that, all the while with that sighing knowledge the dog wouldn't get any better.
The morning he was PTS I rolled over in bed to see my friend had dirtied himself, his breathing was panicked and there was bloody fluid coming from his nose/mouth. I wrapped him in a towel and took him to the vets and they put him down in my arms. He didn't even know I was there. His last breath taken through eyes that didn't even see me any more.
THAT is the single worst thing I've ever done in my life. I'll never forgive myself. Had we gone a week earlier I could have walked him there, seen a wag in his tail and said goodbye to my dear friend properly. I will regret that forever. And I'll never wait another day, when it's time it's time and there's no shame in taking your animal (god willing) early but I believe, real shame, in taking it too late. No it's never easy but it really is easier than waiting too long.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
I've told this story a few times, but i will again in case it helps anyone decide.

My beloved Baba (dog) had to be put down when he was 13. For about a week prior to this he went steadily and quickly downhill. I loved that dog so much, I couldn't bear it to be the end. So the vet gave me this and that, all the while with that sighing knowledge the dog wouldn't get any better.
The morning he was PTS I rolled over in bed to see my friend had dirtied himself, his breathing was panicked and there was bloody fluid coming from his nose/mouth. I wrapped him in a towel and took him to the vets and they put him down in my arms. He didn't even know I was there. His last breath taken through eyes that didn't even see me any more.
THAT is the single worst thing I've ever done in my life. I'll never forgive myself. Had we gone a week earlier I could have walked him there, seen a wag in his tail and said goodbye to my dear friend properly. I will regret that forever. And I'll never wait another day, when it's time it's time and there's no shame in taking your animal (god willing) early but I believe, real shame, in taking it too late. No it's never easy but it really is easier than waiting too long.
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So so sad. Reminds me of when I had my beloved Wizz pts, who saw me through my divorce and was my best friend through some very dark times of my life. She was pts at the age of 12, I was happily remarried and Mini TX would have been about 4. Went to the vets as she was having trouble walking. Vet diagnosed a terminal hip problem, told me I could take her home for a about a week, they would give me medication for her to stop any pain, but I would be back,she had already started to be incontinent as well. There was no decision to make, he gave me some time alone and she died, without pain, in my arms. I sometimes wonder if I should have brought her home for a few days, but that would have been for me, not her. Am crying now as I type this.
 
Oberon said:
I still have my first horse and we've been together for over 20 years. I love that horse and I try to do everything I can to keep him happy in his old age. Every day I see him alive I breathe a sigh of relief.

I know there will be an end.

But knowing that doesn't mean I won't be devastated by it.

Even my husband is terrified of me losing Obi.

So when the time comes, I will appreciate people being sensitive and compassionate.
On here, a horse forum, I would expect that at least.
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^^^ Oberon, I agree 100%.
 
I think that if you dont understand how totally gutted someone who keep a horse for a pet it to loose it, then you have become hard. Many people who work with horses seem to, goes with the job I suppose.

While you are right about thinking of the horse first, these owners need support.

When my oldie goes, and it cant be long as he's 36 now, I will probably come on here for some sympathy. I will make the right decision, but it will tear me apart, I have owned him and treated him like a dog for 31 years.

Sometimes the only people who understand are other pet horse owners, where else would we turn to, family and friends dont usually understand.

I hope this thread wont put off people who just need someone who understands to talk to.
 
TheoryX1 said:
Am crying now as I type this.
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I was too, hugs :(

It's a bone shatteringly sad time, but i do know what Maesfen is getting at I think.
But I don't think you can make a cruel decision from a kind place, I dunno, it's so hard.:confused:
I can only say what I would do, knowing what I know. I think the poster is right who says something experience makes you quicker to decide and surer in yourself, which is a comforting thing in itself. But no-one should feel bad when they make that decision, you are doing the best out of love for them. Which is a beautiful thing :)
 
Sensitive and Sentimental are two very different things. And people confuse them (re comment above that poster would hope people would be sensitive to a person losing their friend)

I would hope people would be sensitive to the loss and sadness of another but not sentimental enough to prolong a life which is not a life, but something to be endured. I never want my horses to just endure. If they can't live and enjoy their lives then it's the end.

I agree with the OP - I don't think you are hard or insensitive. A major point made in this thread was that the reason people agonise is because it's a hard decision to make and carry out ?

No-one said doing the right thing was easy.. in fact doing things right is often the most difficult option.
 
I can answer this better from the point of view of small animals as I have much more experience with them.

I do agree with you, although I think there are shades of grey - not always straight forward as you suggest.

I think vets are actually much to blame - suggesting more and more fancy procedures because they are now available. And insurance is another factor - people can afford to keep their pets alive a little longer because they are insured.

I have always been of the opinion with dogs that when the animal starts getting more of the problems associated with old age, if they are in pain I will put them to sleep. I think I would do the same for my horse, in fact I know I would.
 
Some of the cruelest things I have seen in a very long life entwined with animals of all kinds have been caused by "animal lovers" too weak to let go.
 
itsmylife said:
If you come to a point where making that final choice becomes easy then its time you gave up having animals. It may well be the right choice but if you can make it without heartache then you are hard and should walk away from having animals.
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I don't think anyone does it without heartache, to see any animal breathing one moment and not the next, because that has been your decision, is not easy, but it has to be mixed with realism, what is best for the animals quality of life has to be the over-riding consideration at that moment in time, not what the owner feels.

I have every sympathy with those faced with saying "Yay, or Nay" you have the power of life or death, and it bloody well hurts, but I'd rather know I'd done the right thing for an animal, given the circumstances. I can live with my conscience for every single horse I have had pts.

It isn't easy to hold a horse and watch it die, but it is a damn sight easier to do that than than bury my head in the sand and put it off ignoring the wretched horse dying by degrees in pain that could be avoided.
 
I don't think the OP is hard as such but I think they have become hardened to dealing with life and death when it comes to animals and it becomes more about the practicalities. I think if your job is working with animals then you do become more used to it and, although sad you rationalise more maybe and know what's best as you have see x,y and z happen before. Also, if it is not your one and only horse then I suppose you do not become as attached.

I think what it's about is understanding everyone's different with how they deal with things - I don't think anyone wants to see any animal/pet suffer but sometimes things can become clouded and we think we can try and 'save' them or make them better. It's the saying goodbye and that being it that I guess people feel is hard to take.

For me, I find animals dying actually harder to cope with than people to some degree as 9 times out of 10 you have to make that decision to have them PTS and there's always going to be that niggling doubt of whether you're doing the right thing. When my gran died I didn't cry - she died peacefully in her sleep so, whilst it was sad she had gone, she was old and death come to us all. When my friends sister just recently committed suicide I did cry as the shock and the thought that someone I knew felt so low really hit me.

With animals, i find making the decisions to PTS a old horse that has become sick/frail through age is easier than having to make a decision to PTS a younger animal that has had an injury a sudden illness. When my dog was hit by a car and was so broken the vet said there was nothing they could do I was devastated but partof that was anger at myself, my mother and how things were so unfair and how milliseconds either way would have meant she's still be here. it's just individual feelings and I think yes, people can be considered as 'brave' as they have to get a hold of their emotions to make that right decision.

We have 3 horses in their 20s now, two of them I have had almost 20 years and i know having to make the decision with them is going to be very very hardeven if I know it's right at the time. The selfish side of me wishes they would just pass away peacefully themselves but animals very rarely tend to do this do they!
 
Sorry but a part of me thinks YES OP you are being hard. Probably because i am going through it right now! and i am human.

Every situation is different so you cannot comment on it on the whole. Like mentioned before some of our animals make it very easy for us to make that decision and others make it very difficult for us.

In my case it is not because i cant bear to be without my horse and i will not allow my human emotions get in the way. It is merely down conflicting medical evidence and the intermitent lameness he is suffering from - i thought i had made my decision last week to pts sleep but then this week hes had an excellent week rolling, bucking, rearing in the field, jumping the fence you name it ! you cant just say if the horse has a long standing illness disease lameness put it to sleep - its not that simple !
 
jesstickle said:
I see what you mean OP. But I don't really ever know what to say other than to fall back on the time honoured platitudes when someone posts about having had to PTS. So I say it anyway as I do want to express my sympathy. I'm a pretty pragmatic girl myself but it is painful to lose a friend and I do sympathise when people have to let one go.

So yes, you are realistic and yes you are right that we should all have the horses's welfare at the forefront of our minds. Perhaps the way to look at it is this; to not let a horse go when you should, because you are too weak, is decidedly cowardly. So if you have done the right thing you are not cowardly and perhaps therefore you are being a teensy bit brave? Do you follow my logic at all?! Probably not, I'm not good at expressing myself these days!

For the record, no you aren't hard. Nor am I. We are realists . That's what I tell people when they say I'm hard anyway. :D
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The horses welfare should be everyones first thought, sadly it isnt always. I have seen both horses and dogs that have been kept going for the owners benefit not the animals.
When we had our old horse pts there wasnt really a choice to make, he was in pain. I hope in future we will always put our animals feelings before our own.
 
Excellent thread, so many posts I agree with.

However I've posted to add my 'hear hear' to what Littlelegs said several pages back about 'kind hearted' people advising against PTS in cases where it is the right choice. This issue made me deeply uncomfortable with horse forums for a while - particularly one serial offender on a forum I used - where people would post threads NOT asking for help with the decision, but simply informing their online friends that a decision had been made and horse would be going to sleep on X day. A small minority would then leap on them, undermining their decision, questioning their ability and judgement as a horse owner, and then usually after being re-told all the reasons for the choice coming out with the inevitable "why not send him to a sanctuary" >:( At which point I would either do the usual pointing out that sanctuaries were for horses without a sensible, caring owner, not ones with etc; or towards the end of one long run of these threads, just have to walk away from the computer and remind myself that I knew the people who had made the choice were too sensible to be swayed by a passing 'helpful' poster like that. The best one I remember was when the serial offender did all this on a thread that was AFTER the animal had been PTS. Even for the strongest, most convicted that they had done the right thing person, that's got to hurt.
 
Having made this decision twice in the last ten months firstly a planned PTS (mare's arthritis was getting unmanageable and weight loss was so severe over the winter) I decided to call it a day and then couple of weekends ago, my retired 27 year old pony got colic I have to say, both decisions although have broken my heart I know I did the best thing for both my girls. I don't think the OP is being harsh I think too many people drag there ponies on too long I've known people who have waited till their horses have collapsed in the field! That's absolutely horrid but I tell you the people that upset me the most are gutless wonders who decide it would be nice to give their aged pony away as a "companion" or worse still sell it, instead of doing the right thing! No its not nice having your horse PTS but if you aren't prepared to do that it then you should be asking whether you should have a horse!
 
Maesfen said:
Maybe it's because I've been around horses for a very long time including nearly forty years professionally but I'm getting more and more narked with those that post on PTS threads about what a hard decision it is and how brave the owner's being.

That is such a load of clap-trap.

Why is it hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse out of misery from illness, lameness, misery or plain old age? To let it go on in pain which is untreatable or non-recoverable from is the height of cruelty, nothing more and nothing less and those that do this should be ashamed for putting themselves before their horses.

Surely everyone should have the well being of the horse at the centre of their minds and if that means putting down so be it? To do any less or dally because 'you can't bare to be without him/her' is the height of selfishness or do I now live in a cloud cuckoo land where people always put themselves before their horses and sod the poor horse because they can't have their feelings hurt?

Yes, it's hard to lose a pet of any description but you go into ownership knowing you are likely to outlive it and a decision will have to be made at some point; they don't all curl up and go for a never ending sleep; it would be very nice if they (and even people) did but they don't. People have to put up with their infirmities but an animal doesn't if it has caring owners that always put it first. Please be one of those owners, your pet/horse will thank you for it.
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Yes I understand your post Maesfen but you do come across as very hard, our animals should always come first and I am all for that and 100% with you on that point.
I have not seen the post mentioned here, but this kind of post seems pretty insensitive to that person imho and the heartache they must be going through. I am realistic but I always like to be tactful with it.
I was only blubbing last night about losing my mare coming up 6months ago, it was sudden, i had no time to think at all, the vet was very good and quickly advised there was nothing that could be done. I found it very comforting having kind words and messages from people on here afterwards, had it not been sudden and I had time to decide I would still have appreciated kind words from people on here in making that decision.
I do not think we should put ourselves before our animals but I do like to offer support or sensitivity, much as I would appreciate it at a tough time
 
Maesfen said:
I never said it doesn't hurt, of course it does but that is no excuse to leave an animal in pain or misery, nothing is.
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You asked why anyone thought it was a brave decision and I said it was brave because it hurts.

My comment was nothing to do with whether it is right to put a horse out of pain, it was about having some compassion for the pain of an owner who makes the right decision.

It was about realising that unless your vet says "this must be done today" then it is a brave decision to make.
 
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For me, I have to be 100% convinced PTS is the right decision, because I know that guilt will follow if I am not. Having said that, I cannot bear to see an animal suffer and PTS would be the easiest option for me but not necessarily for the animal. Life for me is most precious and having the responsibilty to end a life is not a decision I take lightly.
 
cptrayes said:
You asked why anyone thought it was a brave decision and I said it was brave because it hurts.
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This is true. If someone goes for an operation knowing its going to hurt, even when there's no big risks, just say an in-growing toe nail, that's bravery really when the opposite in the situation is chickening out. It is the same with emotional pain. Not putting down a horse that should be put down is sometimes due to fear of the sadness it will cause, ie the opposite of brave in the face of it? Although I do think sometimes it is also because some people really cannot separate animals and humans and genuinely believe they are doing right by their animal keeping it going when others wouldn't.

I do hate all the emotive drivel though and for me it just seems to be making something which should be a practical decision entirely about the animal and its interests all about the owner and their feelings, but I am pretty hard and I guess that's just what some people need to hear to cope with it.
 
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Well, whether it's namby pamby or not, if anyone needs a hug because they are facing a hard choice, I will have one for them.

Sherry included.
 
Maesfen said:
Maybe it's because I've been around horses for a very long time including nearly forty years professionally but I'm getting more and more narked with those that post on PTS threads about what a hard decision it is and how brave the owner's being.

That is such a load of clap-trap.

Why is it hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse out of misery from illness, lameness, misery or plain old age? To let it go on in pain which is untreatable or non-recoverable from is the height of cruelty, nothing more and nothing less and those that do this should be ashamed for putting themselves before their horses.

Surely everyone should have the well being of the horse at the centre of their minds and if that means putting down so be it? To do any less or dally because 'you can't bare to be without him/her' is the height of selfishness or do I now live in a cloud cuckoo land where people always put themselves before their horses and sod the poor horse because they can't have their feelings hurt?

Yes, it's hard to lose a pet of any description but you go into ownership knowing you are likely to outlive it and a decision will have to be made at some point; they don't all curl up and go for a never ending sleep; it would be very nice if they (and even people) did but they don't. People have to put up with their infirmities but an animal doesn't if it has caring owners that always put it first. Please be one of those owners, your pet/horse will thank you for it.
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Very Well said Maesfen. I agree totally. Brilliant post.
 
I agree so much with what cortez said about owners keeping animals alive. I remember having it explained to me age 4 why the dog wasn't coming back from the vets. I never had a normal supportive family, the dogs & horses were my family in lots of ways. But for me it comes down to the fact if you love them, you love them enough to let them go. I was called heartless when my elderly but healthy dog got cancer. I had the option of a few days in a clinic & if all went well a week or 2 on painkiller. I took her home, fed her smoked salmon, roast ham & a box of thorntons chocolates, then caught the bus back to the vets & let her go. I was 16 & it was the hardest thing I've ever done. Sounds ridiculous, but she was the only thing that had been there for me all my life. An older girl at the yard called me cruel, & as a result it took two women to pull me off her.
I have made more decisions since but the first is the hardest, but whilst I really sympathise I don't think its enough of an excuse to keep an animal going for your own sake.
 
I don't think the OP was harsh at all, & agree totally with the poster who pointed out the difference bewteen sensitivity & sentimentality.
I'm another who believes better too early than too late, & some of the greatest acts of cruelty I have ever witnessed have been carried out by those who 'loved their horse too much' to do what was best for it.
My current menagerie includes one elderly broodmare, four cats in their late teens, & a middle aged JRT. I forsee a lot of tears for me as one by one their times come, but I'll do my upmost to make sure that their needs come way before my own as I've had to do many times in the past. It's part of the responsibility that comes with owning any animal.
Where there's life there's also death.
 
I wholeheartedly believe "better a month too soon than a day too late" and I hate seeing old horses left in fields in pain because someone cannot face their own emotional pain of putting the animal down.

But surely that doesn't mean that we cannot also acknowledge that unless a vet says to you "this must be done today", that it is a very hard decision to make and that it can be emotionally extremely painfull?

I see no conflict between the two, nor any issue with offering emotional support to anyone who has to go through it.

And what better way to encourage others to bite the bullet (pun intended) than to praise and support those who have already done it and who post on this forum for support and sympathy?
 
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one of the sensible ones IMO. Only had to make this decision once and I put my horses welfare above my own feelings, at the end of the day the horse can't make the decision themselves to PTS only we or the vets can do that. They owe us nothing and we owe then lots so it is only reasonable and fair that we allow them a dignified end, if only we could do the same for humans.............. :(
 
Just because owners find it a hard and frightening decision to make it does not necessarily make them selfish. None of us want to lose our beloved pets, especially if we feel there is an alternative and that the animal is not in pain. You must have a heart of stone if you can say that you do not find putting animals to sleep upsetting.
 
I agree it's very hard and upsetting and the one time I have had to do it, I was devastated. But the horse was in pain and nothing more could be done, so for me it was the only option. I knew of a horse who was very old and owner in my opionion left it too late. He could barely walk and was miserable. In the end he went down and simply could not get up. For me this is not how I want my boy to go, hobbling around in pain. There is a certain quality of life I want for all my animals and when this is no longer possible it is time to say good bye :(
 
Maesfen said:
Maybe it's because I've been around horses for a very long time including nearly forty years professionally but I'm getting more and more narked with those that post on PTS threads about what a hard decision it is and how brave the owner's being.

That is such a load of clap-trap.

Why is it hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse out of misery from illness, lameness, misery or plain old age?

Yes, it's hard to lose a pet of any description
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You've slightly contradicted yourself, as you've acknowledged in your OP that it is hard to lose a pet, so presumably that answers your own question of why it is hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse down.

Yes I do think you're a bit hard. Whilst I fully agree with your general view that the important thing is to do right by the animal, and not keep it alive just for your own benefit - that doesn't mean its not painful or difficult for the owner to make that call, even if its the right one to make.

I can understand getting angry with people who keep an animal alive longer than they should - but I don't really understand why you're narked off with people being compassionate and sympathetic to someone who has made that decision....
:confused:
 
I dont believe thats a contradiction.

I had one PTS last year, it wasnt a hard decision at all, it was the right and only decision for my horse.

I didnt want to put my horse through a painful op that had little chance of working, and if it did work the best she could hope for was a short, nasty, uncomfortable life on meds until the inevitable outcome of having to be PTS after all that.


I didnt find that a hard decision to make for her, but hard on me for losing my horse? You bet it was.
 
In fairness I never read the op, or any other posts as ever saying it stops being upsetting. Losing an animal is always hard, whether its your first or last. Experience just gives you the knowledge that you are doing the right thing, it doesn't make it a more pleasant decision to make. If the animal isn't in pain, either mental or physical & has quality of life, that's fine, I'd be all for alternatives myself provided there's no chance of a sudden change for the worse. I'll sympathise with the loss, but the owners feelings come secondary to the animals needs everytime for me.
 
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