Am I hard or just realistic and humane?

Capriole said:
I dont believe thats a contradiction.

I had one PTS last year, it wasnt a hard decision at all, it was the right and only decision for my horse.

I didnt want to put my horse through a painful op that had little chance of working, and if it did work the best she could hope for was a short, nasty, uncomfortable life on meds until the inevitable outcome of having to be PTS after all that.


I didnt find that a hard decision to make for her, but hard on me for losing my horse? You bet it was.
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I guess it depends on your definition of hard. I was reading 'hard' as 'painful' - but I guess you could also read that as 'complicated' - in which case it probably isn't, although it might not always be totally straightforward.
 
I totally agree with the OP. If you are not prepared to put an animal down humanely while it still has some quality of life and dignity then you have no business owning it in the first place.

I do not think for one moment that the OP is telling people not to grieve for their animal, but to be realistic and put their own feeling to one side for one moment and put the animal first. When a horse is on heavy doses of painkillers to even just stand in the field, how can that be right?

I can tell you a story right now. Back in 2005 I went out to see my old anglo arab mare normally she would come over for her breakfast, but this morning she was stood at the back of the field head down. She was fine and well the previous night and had eaten all of her hay that was left for her. I got over to her and she was covered in sweat and miserable - I made the decision there and then, I booked the vet to PTS and gave her a whole bag of pasture mix in a trug, and that did perk her up it was normally forbidden food!! She went quickly and was out of pain. Job done. I was accused by one owner on the yard of being cruel and was told I should have left her for a while as she would probably "have got over it" I take no notice of morons like this, maybe because I have been around farm animals most of my life, I'm not sure, but I just get a feeling that the decision is just so right I ignore everyone else.

Roll on to 2011 and these people have an old horse that has been going downhill for the past year,lost horrendus amounts of weight, dull coat, very lethargic, lame, on/off nosebleeds and various other problems. It was pushed/pulled up to the yard as the poor thing was almost off its legs. I was at the yard and owner asked my opinion, I said gently (honestley!) to be prepared to let it go, it had had enough. TBH the poor animal was dying in front of her and still she could not accept it. The vet came and thank god she got the straight talking sensible chap who after some moments managed to tell her it was the kindest thing to do - the horse was shot only just before it collapsed.

If this horse had of been mine it would have been PTS months ago, before all it's dignity and quality of life had one. I am still disgusted that it had to suffer so much because in their words PTS was "cruel" and they "loved it too much" and these were the same people who gave me a hard time over my mare.
 
I know people think I am uncaring because Seem I put a lot of horses PTS but I have a lot not so many now only four but as I have got older and we buy more older horses some of which have issues which need managing when they arrive so the inevitable comes round more often.
Look at the picture on the it's appalling thread and say its wrong to PTS even it they could have gone on to be a field ornament .
I am so cautious about passing older horses on as I have seen what happens to them if they are unlucky further down the line.
 
:) Yes I agree, ok its not an easy decision to say goodbye to an animal at the end of its days, but we have to think of the animals welfare first, it is the last kind and decent thing you can do for them, its our responsibility to see that they have a stress free end to their days at home, its far far better than sending the poor creature off to some sale or other to end up who knows where and gone through hell before reaching their final ending
 
Goldenstar said:
I know people think I am uncaring because Seem I put a lot of horses PTS but I have a lot not so many now only four but as I have got older and we buy more older horses some of which have issues which need managing when they arrive so the inevitable comes round more often.
Look at the picture on the it's appalling thread and say its wrong to PTS even it they could have gone on to be a field ornament .
I am so cautious about passing older horses on as I have seen what happens to them if they are unlucky further down the line.
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Ive said no more old horses, as my heart breaks, I cant stand any more. As our lot get older its something I will have to deal with again and again and I will deal with it, but no more older horses coming in.
If I was able to offload oldies onto someone else like some people, I wouldnt have to go through it at all, but thats not something I can do.

I will always make the decision based on the horse, and not on how I feel about things, and I can live with my decisions.
 
Capriole said:
Ive said no more old horses, as my heart breaks, I cant stand any more. As our lot get older its something I will have to deal with again and again and I will deal with it, but no more older horses coming in.
If I was able to offload oldies onto someone else like some people, I wouldnt have to go through it at all, but thats not something I can do.

I will always make the decision based on the horse, and not on how I feel about things, and I can live with my decisions.
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I used to think I can't buy older horses for the above reason until a horse changed my mind I bought an older driving horse to learn with he had been in a top home sold on ended up where he did not suit and come to me as a schoolmaster he was not starved but sick of work depressed and dull with us we rode him a lot and he rediscovered his zing and love of life I drove took him to me first competions then old age began to catch up with him and he went off the carriage work so he went hunting for two seasons which he loved then he went intermittently unlevel could not find cause bute did not help during the summer in the field he lost his bloom and his place as field boss and one day I just felt you are ready and arranged it.
But he had six years of fun with us so I don't step away from older ones I just think about the years I can give them.
 
I know what you mean Goldenstar, but I need to stick with the younger horses for a while when our oldies are gone. (ie, hard decisions 'might' be needed, not hard decisions 'might/will be needed, inevitably)

We have an old one now needs to go in to the vets for further examination of an issue, and the decisions already made as to what will happen for each scenario. If we can fix her, great. If we can fix her well enough to retire her, great. If we cant fix her well enough for her to have a happy, painfree retirement, she will be PTS.

No beating myself up about it and I wont let anyone else make me feel bad about it either. Its bad enough when you have to say goodbye to a friend without that.
 
I've had animals pts.

Each time it hurt more than I care to remember.

Each time it was my choice, to save further suffering that was going to get worse and had no possibility of being fixed.

Each time I cried a lot. I hated that it had to happen. I hated that my hopes and dreams and just generally enjoying that animal's company was going to end so unexpectedly and so far too soon.

Each time I had to make the decision cut a part of my heart and soul. I don't care how that sounds to anyone else. That's how it was for me. I don't expect others to react the same as me. I don't care how they react. It's personal and no one else has right to pass judgement because they are wired differently.
 
As most people know I have made this heartbreaking desition for my amazing mare Lucy. The hardest part was knowing when the right time was to let her go.
Lucy was my whole world and had been for 12 years. I couldn't imagen life without her. When she was diagnosed with her illness alot of my friends told me to just have her put down. That it wasn't fair to keep her going when she was going to die anyway. But Lucy wasn't suffering and she wasn't in pain. Infact the vets said she probably didn't even know there was anything wrong with her. I desided to give treatment a go. I spent £4000 in 8 months when I only ernt £80 a week (I had very very understanding vets) Lucy seemed to be doing well and responding to treatment and I was hopefull she would be around for a while yet. But when I went away on holiday she took a sudden turn for the worst. :( She lost alot of weight over night and had become wobbley on her feet. The vet said she wasn't suffering yet but I was away for 2 weeks with no way of getting home and the vet didn't know if she could hold on that long. So I made the devestating desition to let her go without saying goodbye.
I know it was the right desition and the only one for Lucy's sake but it has haunted me ever since.
My life fell appart after I lost Lucy. I fell into a deep depresion and couldn't see anyway out. I lost my job, which was also were I lived. I found it very very hard to cope, I found it hard to except she was gone. I still now nearly two years later struggle to come to terms with the fact that she is gone and feel guilty for not being there for her at the end. I wonder if I made the right choice, If me going away was what made Lucy give up the fight against the illness. I still cry everyday for my little angel and miss her so very very much.

So I'm sorry if you get narked at me if I say the owner of a horse is making a brave desition to have there horse put down or say what a hard desition it is. Having Lucy put down was the hardest desition I've ever made. I have known owners put off the desition and cause there horses unnecessary suffering just to save them the pain of saying goodbye. In the ideal world our horses would live long and happy lives and when there time came they would slip away in there sleep or have a heartattack in the field. But sadly this is rarely the case and we as owners have to make the desition to let them go.
I feel it is a hard and brave desition and will continu to say so, sorry but this is how I feel. I know how hard it can be on some people to loose there horse, there best friend.
 
I found it a very hard and heartbreaking decision to have to make to let my boy go, I knew it was the right decision for him, did'nt stop it being a hard one though, when people respond to a pts post and give their respects and say ( what a hard decision etc,) it's because it is ! It does'nt mean an owner is putting their own needs first imo.
 
Realistic and humane! I NEVER want to be one of these owners who lets their horse suffer! People take things too far an for what? When the decision needs to be made I will make it and fast!
 
Maesfen said:
Maybe it's because I've been around horses for a very long time including nearly forty years professionally but I'm getting more and more narked with those that post on PTS threads about what a hard decision it is and how brave the owner's being.

That is such a load of clap-trap.

Why is it hard or brave to make the right decision to put a horse out of misery from illness, lameness, misery or plain old age? To let it go on in pain which is untreatable or non-recoverable from is the height of cruelty, nothing more and nothing less and those that do this should be ashamed for putting themselves before their horses.

Surely everyone should have the well being of the horse at the centre of their minds and if that means putting down so be it? To do any less or dally because 'you can't bare to be without him/her' is the height of selfishness or do I now live in a cloud cuckoo land where people always put themselves before their horses and sod the poor horse because they can't have their feelings hurt?

Yes, it's hard to lose a pet of any description but you go into ownership knowing you are likely to outlive it and a decision will have to be made at some point; they don't all curl up and go for a never ending sleep; it would be very nice if they (and even people) did but they don't. People have to put up with their infirmities but an animal doesn't if it has caring owners that always put it first. Please be one of those owners, your pet/horse will thank you for it.
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Sorry I have only just seen this but I couldnt agree more!
Last year I had to make the decision to have a mare and foal PTS and My dog it was a year of pure hell! we battled to keep the mare going with cushing lami from jan 1st to april and she foaled the most beautiful colt three weeks later he tore a ligament in his knee his leg was swinging, my vet said we could try to save him but after two months he was developing massive joint issues on his other front leg, we arranged to have them pts together baby had spent a lot of time lying down the last week of his life so while he was down he was pts it was so peaceful he didnt suffer anymore his mum just watched she new and was so passive she wanted out she was wrecked with pain,
some people would have liked me to keep the mare going, but why! to go on to keep them happy! people who should know better, its very hard to let them go, but I know I have not done what a lot do and stick them on sales sites at 20 + for a few quid No when a horse has served you well and done what you wanted of it you owe them one month after losing my mare and foal I lost my dog the loss is hard but love goes deeper.
my little foal would have been 1 year old -tomorrow this the bulbs I planted above them both are in full bloom for the the little chap and his mum
 
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Hard. I'm sorry, but not everyone has been around horses for as long as you or had experience with losing them. So the fact that they still make the right decision and do what is best for the horse IS brave and of course it's a hard decision for them to make. I don't understand why you're moaning about these people or the people who tell them they're being brave - at least they're doing the right thing and not making their horse carry on when it's sick and in pain. Shouldn't we be moaning about the people who just keep putting off that decision, not the ones who actually make it :confused:

I would find it very very hard to decide that my mare needed to be PTS. I would make that decision, of course I would, if it was best for her. But it would still be bloody difficult. But then, she's the only horse I've ever had and we've been together for over 10 years and she's been my best friend for over half my life. Do you really think I could find that decision easy? Would you, in my shoes?
 
I dont think its hard to make the right decision, or brave for that matter but it is heartbreaking and upsetting. People are just being kind when they say the owner is being brave for making such a hard decision - because thats human nature.

Someone close to me is not making that decision because its easier for her to let the horse continue living and for her to ignore the potential suffering she is probably about to cause a horse who realistically should have been pts a year ago - she just keeps telling herself there are things they can do for the horse and finding things online to convince herself - we have all fallen out with her at one point because we can see what needs to be done, she refuses to accept it - even the vet has told her to start thinking of a date to have her pts before the end of Spring. So to some people, being able to get past that and accept that its the right time and say those words - it can be a hard thing to do.

I am in no doubt that when my boys time comes, I will not hesitate as I would never let him suffer - but I will be devastated - and I think its taking that decision which you know is going to save your animal from suffering but cause you so much pain, that some people see as being a brave decision to make :)
 
A friend of mine had two retired horses, both best of friends, had lived together as a pair for years. One sadly developed a serious colic and vet advised her to pts, definitely the best decision for horse. The second one started to behave in a very distressed manner having lost his mate, so my friend decided it was kinder to also have him pts on the same day rather than let her old friend suffer more distress and live a lonely end to his life. In my opinion this was a very brave and selfless decision. She lost both her beautiful horses so suddenly on the same day, putting her horses welfare before her own feelings of loss.

Right decision, right time, difficult, selfless, humane and brave imo. I think we should be able to give people credit for taking these difficult decisions..........and be there to support them while they are grieving their loss.
 
I always appreciate those that do make the decision, sooner rather than later, because, for most people it is a hard decision. Being right and sensible and kind (to the animal) does not make it easy.
 
I suspect that for a lot of the pts query posts the owner knows what they need to do but need reassurance. Often you see a post that screams this & someone is answering in a way that is so fluffy I want to scream. Sometimes you get the impression that some people think a horse shouldn't be pts until it has the owner by the throat demanding the Vet is booked right now. On the whole I think the "brave" answers are just trying to help & reassure someone who is hurting badly & of course it will hurt however sure you are that it's the right thing. Sometimes it's a no brainer due to a catastorhic injury illness, but so often it's that long slow decline & the decision is where to draw the line. A friend is in that place at the moment & I know the horses welfare is uppermost in her mind, but knowing what that means isn't always clear cut.
 
I think you are all of these but I dread the day my old boy has to go upstairs but the decision that is made will be the best for him, not me.

I also greatly hope my vet will say enough is enough and say I think its time(but I dont know do they do this and say this???) I hope so, I will scrutinise my animal and my vet and make the decision I dont believe in filling vets bank account or keeping the insurance company afloat!. My animals welfare is first, not mine.

You have animals and you take responsibility. I think the worse owners are the ones that pass on their poorly old or young with problems so they dont have to do the PTS deed! That is cruel.
 
Alphamare said:
Realistic and humane! I NEVER want to be one of these owners who lets their horse suffer! People take things too far an for what? When the decision needs to be made I will make it and fast!
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And when it comes to it that you have to make that decision you will find that you have to be brave and also that it is hard.

I suggest you need to have done it before you make bold statements about how fast you will decide.

If a vet does not say to you "this horse must be put to sleep", then how will you decide?
 
cptrayes said:
And when it comes to it that you have to make that decision you will find that you have to be brave and also that it is hard.

I suggest you need to have done it before you make bold statements about how fast you will decide.

If a vet does not say to you "this horse must be put to sleep", then how will you decide?
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We decided our cat was in pain and not having a good life anymore, so we took her to the vets to do the deed...
Our vet said "Don't put her to sleep yet"
He argued so well that we changed our minds and brought her home. I really wish we hadn't as she's started suffering and I'm having to go through the pain of it all again.
We're booking her in for tomorrow :(
It's hard preparing yourself once, but to do it twice for the same animal is almost unbearable!

So, what if a vet says to you "Don't put her to sleep" when you know you have to?

I agree with your post, it's much easier when the vet tells you it's the right thing to do.
 
Hard. I've had horses for over 20 years and have had two put down for lameness reasons. I don’t regret my decisions and like to think I made them at the right time but it was/is heart wrenching.

Admittedly I do have to sit on my hands sometimes when I hear/see people trying to pass on a horse which would be better of pts but that’s just my opinion. I do believe most people genuinely want to do what is best for their horses and will make to right decision in the end.
 
Because we discuss all possible outcomes and all possible scenarios when it comes to my animals. I already know when to make the decisions. I may not have had to make it yet but I have two horses that I may have to make the decision for soon. One an elderly horse and one with a potential tendon sheath infection. We have discussed the elderly mare for example who came out of winter on the poorer side. If she did not pick up condition this year (which she already is) then we would have had her Pts at the end of the autumn. Same decision will be made next year if it comes too it. As far as the mare with the cut through a tendon sheath, she is not a field ornament type and cannot handle box rest. If it infects i will have her Pts. Especially as we caught it so early she is on antibiotics straight away. So the sheath infection would have been there for a while if it surfaces after we stop the antibiotics, so the prognosis would be very poor. Already discussed with the vet.
We have talked about colic and other situations too.

I find that if one actually talks about the possibilities before it happens you can make the decision before the situation becomes emotional.

Oh and incase either of us dies we have living wills in place too!
 
Oh and I have the number of the local hunt who have a wonderful reputation for Pts just incase I need it.

It's up to us to shoulder the burden of deciding on the quality of life of our animals. It's better to err on the side of caution, knowing your animal helps. You know what they could and could not handle. You know what you could and could not handle.

Too many animals are left to suffer and the "week to soon better than a day too late" really is the epitome of the decision that needs to be made. Old girl for example is a little stiff in winter, if it became more than that we have already agreed to have her Pts before it comes to the point where she went down and couldn't get up. (for example) Her last memory (and mine) would be of her suffering!! It's not kind. So rather do it "too soon"
 
Alphamare said:
Oh and I have the number of the local hunt who have a wonderful reputation for Pts just incase I need it.

It's up to us to shoulder the burden of deciding on the quality of life of our animals. It's better to err on the side of caution, knowing your animal helps. You know what they could and could not handle. You know what you could and could not handle.

Too many animals are left to suffer and the "week to soon better than a day too late" really is the epitome of the decision that needs to be made. Old girl for example is a little stiff in winter, if it became more than that we have already agreed to have her Pts before it comes to the point where she went down and couldn't get up. (for example) Her last memory (and mine) would be of her suffering!! It's not kind. So rather do it "too soon"
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I agree absolutely with this. I take view when its not living a horses life then for me that is the time. I am closely watching my old boys back end today as he is sooo stiff and draggy so up the bute he has just started on, but if this doesnt work I dont want him going down and distressed. He is happy in himself and eating for England. But he can change in a day as he has recently. But I am watching him closely and have no hesitation in getting him PTS and yes I will personally will be devastated but he has had a good innings and been cared for well.
Now my vet wanted to do a whole load of xrays!!! He was x rayed a few years ago I know what the problem is arthritis horse is 24 years we know of! Doesnt load well. But I dont want him pulled around he is old etc, so when time comes PTS. I wish my vet would be realistic and whats best for my horse not treat and treat and treat and save etc!
 
We have been talking about this today.

Cob is now 21 and no spring chicken... he is full of beans, has a glint in his eye, and acts like a complete clown. He has a clean bill of health and no health problems to speak of, vet is astounded with him, and always comments on how good he looks. We know this will not last forever, and one day he will slow down and he may need to be retired, he may have lameness issues, or he might suddenly develop a serious health problem. If he is healthy and happy enough to be a field ornament then he will be accomodated. However, we both would be heartbroken if we saw our lovable but naughty, lively clown lose the glint in his eye... that would be the time. I would be more heartbroken to see him unhappy than to make the decision. It will be hard and I hope it is not for many years yet, but when the time comes I too will probably asking for support and vibes on this forum.

I am soft and think with my heart than my head, but my animals come first.
 
cptrayes said:
If a vet does not say to you "this horse must be put to sleep", then how will you decide?
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It's very easy. You make the decision based on the circumstances, likely outcome of any injury or illness, quality of life and discussion with your vet.

A vet will very rarely say 'put the horse down', however, what they will say is 'It's not the wrong decision'.

Having been in the position several times, I've only found it hard once - the others were easy decisions (however, no less heartbreaking or distressing for me, not the horse).
 
amymay said:
It's very easy. You make the decision based on the circumstances, likely outcome of any injury or illness, quality of life and discussion with your vet.

A vet will very rarely say 'put the horse down', however, what they will say is 'It's not the wrong decision'.

Having been in the position several times, I've only found it hard once - the others were easy decisions (however, no less heartbreaking or distressing for me, not the horse).
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Amymay from the way that you and I both post it is obvious that we are both decisive individuals who have little difficulty reviewing the facts and making a decision.

This simply isn't true of most female horse owners, and for them it is not easy to tell when the right moment to put a horse down is unless the vet says "do it" , and most vets won't unless the horse is critically ill.

The best question to ask a vet, I would suggest to anyone in this position, is "what would you do if this was your horse?".

I have a friend whose three horses in the last two years were treated as follows:

An elderly mare who was arthritic to the point of not being able to lie down for a year before she was put down. I think that one was left too late.

An elderly mare who was arthritic but could easily have been made comfortable with bute for quite a while longer and had a lot of life in her eyes as I held her for the injection. She wasn't ready to die. On economic grounds I agreed with her being put down, but on welfare grounds it was too early.

A young gelding who got a stifle injury with a very poor prognosis. After treatment and extensive rest the horse was still lame after a year. I recommended them very strongly to have him put down, a decision which the vet agreed with. They had bred him, he was breaking their hearts and costing them more and more with no good end in sight. They gave him more rest and he was booked to compete his first BE this weekend. How stupid do I feel now?


I've personally had two very easy decisions - one total kidney failure and the vet offered me 24 hours to say goodbye. I said no and he was shot two hours later. And one blind and panicking four year old.

But most decisions simply aren't that easy and I do think Maesfen's post is hard, because even when the decision is easy, it still hurts. So I still say anyone who makes the decision, easy or not, has to be brave to carry it through, my own personal definition of "brave" being to do something which you know is going to hurt and/or which the thought of scares you.
 
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I think sometimes we say it is a "hard" decision, when we actually mean it is a heartbreaking one, I have had many animals pts and this has been the case for me with all of them. I am a firm believer that its is better a day too soon and luckily my vets have never argued. A few years ago I had an ILPH pony in her 30s whose arthritis was getting worse, the ILPH field officer agreed it would be wrong to put her through another winter though most of the time she coped okay. I spoke to my vet and warned him in the next few weeks he would get a call to come and pts and would he please just accept my decision even if she appeared fine that day. He was great and when I made the dreaded call was over the same morning, and he said to me later he wished more owners would make the decision for an old pony rather than leave it to the vet who didn't see the pony day to day. I think one or two people were surprised though when I said she had been pts, as they "didn't think she was that bad".
So no OP I don't think you are hard, just realistic but to some extent I think that does come with experience and those who have never had to face the decision before will find it a very difficult thing to do, even if in some cases those of us looking in can see it is glaringly obvious the animal needs to be pts.
 
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