Am I losing the plot??

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montysmum1

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I'll keep this as brief as possible, but please ask me questions if I have left anything vital out!

My pony who is out on loan came in from the field on Friday with colic. Loanees rang me to say he is acting odd, really lethargic/depressed, no interest in food (usually greedy pig), stomach bloated and spasming. My immediate response was - call the vet, sounds like colic, he needs Buscopan. Vet came and left before I got there (I live 60 miles away), but pony was looking much better when I got there. I queried if it was 'normal' colic or some sort of poisoning, as he's in a ridiculously bare field, so browsing the hedgerow, but could just as easily be a gastric ulcer-type reaction due to no forage for most of the day.

I have been to hell and back recently with a very colicky/ulcer ridden ex-racer, who, with a LOT of hard work, strict management and gastroguard is actually starting to improve. I have over-reacted to this colic I know, but pony has NEVER colicked before, and is still not right - not really eating hard feed/hay, generally depressed. I have asked loanee to get vet out again to do bloods, and to run a worm count on his poo, then to consider endoscopy for ulcers, and they have completely flipped, saying I am insulting their care of him, and that I should trust how they are looking after him and not question them??

Am I being unreasonable? I've had this pony since he was a baby, he's been out on loan for a year now, but I see him most weeks/speak to them about him, and I absolutely love him to bits. I can't just 'leave them to it' with something as serious as colic can I?!
 
Why no forage? He should be getting some hay at least. Your pony, get them to sort it out asap.
 
Your horse, up to you how he is managed. And the very bottom line is that if they can't or don't want to do it your way they send him back or you take him back.
 
Maybe they are panicking about a massive bill ? Are they insured ? Did yu ask why he has no grass, are they trying to stop lami so have stopped feeding him as its they only way they think they can help prevent it ?
 
THANK YOU!!!!!

I am totally exhausted from life in general right now and really thought I was missing something here!

There's no forage as the horses are still in their winter paddock, which has been completely over-grazed, and they are not allowed to put hay out for them. As I understood it in the winter, he was only going out for a few hours as a 'leg stretch', and would have expected them to have changed fields by now, but it turns out that he has been out for a LOT longer (8am-5pm kind of thing) and there is literally NO grass, just mud/dirt. Hence my worry about ulcers. But they have said that yes, it's not ideal, but all the other horses out there are ok, and he's a good weight, so he should be ok too?? This made me very cross, as I just cannot understand the logic - HE IS CLEARLY NOT OK?!

I'm reluctant to demand him back without giving them a chance (though my heart is screaming at me to go and get him) as they are friends of mine and have been for years, and I really don't want to fall out with them over this, but at the same time, I don't want to risk my pony over it either. He is not replaceable. The not eating is totally out of character and really worrying me.
 
He is insured, and even if insurance doesn't cover, I would pay any vets bills on a credit card if necessary, he is worth more to me than money.

He has never had laminitis or colic before, or any problems really! He is 12yrs old and I've had him since he was 3.
 
Id say get confirmation that everything you want done has been done ie phone their vet etc or take him back. Give them a deadline, I'd say far better safe than sorry.
 
Wanted to say I don't think the way your feeling is wrong , I would feel exactly the same but as you don't want to taking him back and ruin the friendship I would like some questions answered and for him to have forage.

I would ask them about insurance and when he last had his teeth done ? Also is he on any other feed ? Would it be possible to visit and talk face to face so nothing is read in a different way as can happen with email and text.
 
Could you ring their vet and have a chat with them? At the end of the day if you're not happy with how the pony is being kept you should take it back.
 
I agree. Perhaps to keep the peace with your friends you can say you will have him home while he gets treatment and recovers as not fair for them to have the bills. Then keep him until you think th grazing situation is improved. or then again just ask for him back full stop. You don't have to be grumpy about it just say you are sorry but since he has been ill you have realised you want him back.

Btw not sure what I think about them ringing you when he was ill rather than the vet directly. Or is that something that your loan agreement requires? What would they have done if you weren't available to speak to?

Hope he improves and you get the outcome you want
 
I will be calling the Vet tomorrow, I know them/they know me, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I have suggested on Saturday that he comes to me to recover, as we have plenty of room for him and fields with grass, and it seems silly that he is in this state because they don't! They took offense to that suggestion immediately.

Tobiano, I honestly hope that they would just have rung the vet if they couldn't get hold of me - it's just a bog-standard BHS loan agreement, but I do keep in regular contact with them and would expect them to let me know if he was unwell, and would rather they call the vet as a 'false alarm' than wait for my say-so!
 
It is Monday today, if the pony is still not right he has been poorly for 3 full days, not counting Friday, I would have expected the vet to ask for an update the next day and to have come back if he had not returned to normal by then, I think if I were you I would ask them to get the vet back tomorrow, phone first thing to arrange a visit. If he is insured they will not be paying anyway, if they do not get the vet I would bring him home and keep him once he is better, then look for someone who puts the pony first with some decent turnout.

Not putting hay in bare fields is asking for trouble, the yard is probably lucky the others are all surviving.
 
Could you say to them that the colic was likely to be caused by the lack of forage for such long periods of time, and therefore he NEEDS to have hay at regular intervals during the day? That unfortunately, if they can't provide that then you will need to have him back, even if it is only until their field situation improves?
 
Just to add, if they take offence when you have questioned the care given it may be partly due to a guilty conscience, if they take offence so easily when you have the best interests of your pony in mind do they really deserve to keep him.
 
montysmum1 said:
Tobiano, I honestly hope that they would just have rung the vet if they couldn't get hold of me - it's just a bog-standard BHS loan agreement, but I do keep in regular contact with them and would expect them to let me know if he was unwell, and would rather they call the vet as a 'false alarm' than wait for my say-so!
Click to expand...

I do hope that would be the case! My loan horse was down with colic last weekend, rang vet straight away & rang his owner while waiting for vet to come to let her know. Just seems common sense really to get horse treated if needs be rather than wait for owners permission?

Hope you find out what is going on with him soon. The not knowing is always the worst bit.
 
You could just lie and say although you don't question their care you know your pony very well and know this is out of the ordinary. Given what you've been through with your other horse you feel it's best to find out what the problem is and 'nip it in the bud' so their summer is not ruined by having an unrideable horse.

And then invent something that the vet has said that means he has to come home to you ASAP because that attitude is awful!! No forage all day in May!!! Poor pony! Hope you get it sorted soon xx
 
Thank you everyone, I will speak to the vet tomorrow morning and go from there.

I feel much better knowing that you don't think I am over-reacting, as I really was beginning to wonder if I was going crazy. I did honestly expect a different reaction from them, at the end of the day, the pony is the most important person here.

I just want my pony to be ok
 
I've spoken 2 Vet and he's just as concerned as I am. He did call loaner to check pony's progress but wasn't told about the not eating/off colour/depressed behaviour hence didn't come back out!!! He's coming out this morning to see him and is going to update me afterwards.
 
I can actually see both sides. If I was loaning, I don't think I'd be happy about the owner coming over & questioning my care. HOWEVER, there is no way I would have a pony out all day with nothing to eat at all & they did contact you to tell you so that to me is an invitation to go over & see what treatment he is getting. Tbh I would be fetching him home or be trying to arrange a way for him to have access to forage during the day if this is the only problem that has cropped up in a year. The yard rules sound ridiculous if he's out for that length of time. Fingers crossed he picks up soon xx
 
Sorry, but what is it about yards not allowing hay in bare fields? Grazing is a massive aspect of horse care - if a yard allows a horse to be hungry most of the day they are failing in their duty.
 
Well your not losing the plot so don't worry about that. I just would have pony home but yes that's typing an easy quick solution on the internet.

I don't get this no hay think either. I have mine in sacrafice paddocks as am waiting to open the fields we worked on. The expense at the moment is ridiculous. But they can't stand around all day with nothing to eat. As a matter of fact about to go out and give more.

Hope it all turns out ok.

Terri (((FF)))
 
When I lived in Nairobi colic was quite common in a drought. Not just because there was no forage itself. With nothing to do the horses would eat the roots of the grass plants, and ingest too much soil and sand. If this horse is at livery, then perhaps the Vet could speak to the YO.
 
Id be wanting bloods done to test his liver, sounds very similar to my mare a few months back.

Honestly, if you have doubts about his care you have 2 choices, help the loaners out and give them a few tips/advice or take the pony back.
 
From the loaners pov, if I had a pony with one off colic I'd keep an eye on it, but I wouldn't go to hundreds of pounds of expense for testing unless it colicked again.

So if I was loaning the pony, and it had a one off colic and then recovered, but the owners were insisting I spent hundreds on various tests etc, I'd tell them to jog on and pay for it themselves if its what they wanted, tbh.
 
I haved loaned out ponies several times, they are not insured so in the contract there is a set amount they are liable for and its discuused if the pony was severly ill or injured it would come home.
As this animal has never had colic I would be looking for why. In the last six months there seems to have been far more colic cases, there is has been so little grass for so long and the sudden changes of tempreture wet/dry seem to make this worse.
I agree lack of forage for a long periods of time and also having no moisture in the food could be a reason. While you reslove this long term I would asked that his feed be well wetted and if possble slopppy sugar beet , not for weight gain but to add some moisture. The longer poo is in the bowel the dryer it becomes and although they may be drinking that can often cause a problem.I had pony staying a friends after open castration as I did not have a stable and he needed to be in for two weeks,they had very dry haylage and had a horse colic and the pony was becoming very constipated, in the end I had to bring him home and turn him out.
 
Thank you again for your sane replies - I am feeling a lot less desperate today.

I have spoken to the vet and he fully understands my concerns, has seen pony today and taken blood tests and instructed loanee to worm and to ensure he has turn out at grass which is gradually increased as he gets used to it. YO has agreed to this now.

Pony is still not eating properly, just picking at grass, ignoring hay and leaving most of hard feed. Vet is now aware of this and agrees with my concerns re ulcers, and has agreed to gastroscopy depending on blood and poo sample results.

I am going to leave pony where he is for now, as he may require trip to horsepital for gastroscopy so don't want to travel more than necessary for now, but will decide where to go once diagnosis/cause of troubles is identified.

Funnily enough, loanee is a bit more reasonable now vet has echoed my concerns! :cool:
 
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