Am I right or wrong?..

Jenko109 said:
All seems rather odd doesnt it....
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seems very odd that a dealer didn't notice the potential sarcoids which a vet now thinks may be sarcoids.. Also seems very odd after the amended post for them to write about the whole situation on here. A dealer I would little confidence in and would avoid I think if he was now going to pursue in court rather than refund. All our posting on here has done is draw the attention of a lot of people to what could be potentially a difficult dealer to purchase from. Offer to take the horse back, give the buyer a choice then it is her choice.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
OP may I ask if this is the 15.3 bay Welsh X that you are selling from the field as a project? If so he looks rather a nice sort and I would think you could probably put a few weeks work on him and he would fetch a decent price, especially if a vet is happy to vouch that the rough areas found are just rubs and nothing sinister. What I am saying is surely just take him back, refund the unhappy buyer. Do a bit of work with him and then readvertise with a more professional and direct advert, I am sure the profit margin would be well worth the trouble, if he is as described of course.

Sometimes a very quick sale and turnaround aren't the most profitable or less problematic way to sell a horse on, but I am sure with all your experience you probably know that as well as I do. :)
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Looks like a nice sort. But is that the kind of money average horses are selling for these days? :oops: Yowzer.
 
I wonder why he went from a glowing advert with full breeding shown, successful showing history. Showing promise loose jumping, out of well known sire, great potential under saddle on the 12th. Then 4 days ago he is downgraded to a project from the field that can't be tried ridden as he is still a baby?

OP it would be great if you would be kind enough to clarify as it might help solve the issue of the buyers that bought under the most recent advert as a 'project' now appearing to be dissatisfied with their purchase?
 
Amymay Again said:
He's a cracking sort. Wonder why he ended up at a dealers yard?
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Maybe the owner doesn't have good facilities? If I were to sell one of mine, I have a field, a short road, good hacking and I can hire my neighbour's school though I doubt she'd agree to many random strangers in her yard trying a horse. A decent dealer is likely a cheaper option than sales livery for a lower priced horse.
 
It *might* be that the dealer took someone else’s (previous owner maybe?) word re. what this horse was capable of - but it then became apparent that he was greener than first thought?

The more I think about it, though, I don’t really understand why an established dealer would ask for this sort of advice on here. There could be a good reason I suppose- but I can’t think of one at the moment.
 
Amymay Again said:
He's a cracking sort. Wonder why he ended up at a dealers yard?
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I tried multiple, about 10 I think, just backed 4yo last year. They were all green (as expected), one was too much horse for me but neither dealers or private owners suggested it was not possible to have a ridden trial. I wonder, not just why he was at the dealers, but also why a reputable dealer wouldn't want to assess the buyer as being suitable for a young horse.
 
nutjob said:
I tried multiple, about 10 I think, just backed 4yo last year. They were all green (as expected), one was too much horse for me but neither dealers or private owners suggested it was not possible to have a ridden trial. I wonder, not just why he was at the dealers, but also why a reputable dealer wouldn't want to assess the buyer as being suitable for a young horse.
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I’m selling a 4 year old (not advertised yet and he is on sales livery). One of the things that concerns me is a bunch of people getting on him having overstated their abilities (and having just sold another from home, it happens a lot). He’s a good chap and well started but very green and can be sharp. Maybe something like this?
 
The ‘sold from the field’ project horse has been under saddle at the dealer’s yard, unless someone borrowed the personalised Larkrise Farm saddle pad for this photo? Rider is wearing a body protector and the horse has a neck strap.

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Re trying young horse at dealers yards. I’ve many a time posted a pic of me being put under scrutiny on the resident schoolmistress by the late Janet George before I got as far as trying one of her rather green 5yos that were then up for sale. I never did try the 5yos, I was offered the schoolmistress to buy instead 😁. I think this is a very sensible approach, and any prospective purchaser who would be offended by having a brief evaluation sit on an established horse prior to sitting on a baby horse can jog on.
 
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Abacus said:
I’m selling a 4 year old (not advertised yet and he is on sales livery). One of the things that concerns me is a bunch of people getting on him having overstated their abilities (and having just sold another from home, it happens a lot). He’s a good chap and well started but very green and can be sharp. Maybe something like this?
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A dealer has some options as to how to deal with this. First, ask questions such as how long they've been riding, how many horses previously owned, at what level the person has been competing at etc. Second, ask for a video of the person riding if you know the horse your selling is not straight forward. Third do a ridden assessment on a more established horse before they get on the 4yo. If these people are overstating their ability (which does happen) then allowing them to buy a green horse without a ridden trial is surely a big mistake. The green / sharp young horse can then end up in the wrong home and someone gets hurt and the horse becomes nervous, insecure and more difficult to rehome.

As a private seller you can wash your hands of this once you have the money, as a dealer it's not so easy. They can very easily lose their good reputation if they don't take the horse back and refund. Particularly if they start making up their own terms and conditions with lengthy contracts about only taking the horse back on sales livery, charging extra as the horse now needs retraining after being damaged by the novice owner etc etc. and not guaranteeing that the buyer will get anything like their money back.

The dealer may then throw a strop if their unlawful made up contract is posted on dodgy dealers and may then think they will get more sympathy on a horse forum :rolleyes: .
 
If you are selling a young horse and don't want a bunch of people riding him and potentially causing issues through their lack of experience there's still no reason why you can't show it being ridden by yourself and/or a friend/member of staff etc

I sold a just backed pony a few years ago and I had a friend ride him first and explained to any potential purchasers that if I felt they weren't right for him I would ask them to stop and the same if I felt they were pushing him too far. I didn't particularly want lots of people riding him, especially if they turned out to be novice but I also didn't want to find out months down the line that he was ruined because tbe person who bought him didn't have the skills or confidence that they said they did.
 
nutjob said:
The dealer may then throw a strop if their unlawful made up contract is posted on dodgy dealers and may then think they will get more sympathy on a horse forum :rolleyes: .
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I don’t think we’ve got all the details in the original post- the initial focus was on whether the dealer was in the right for refusing to pay vet’s bills for treatment related to the lumps. It doesn’t explicitly say that the buyer wanted to return the horse, even though that’s what many of us were suggesting as the best option for all concerned.
None of the adverts shown on here (FB?) mention ‘no lumps or bumps.’

So I think Nutjob is right - perhaps the dealer came on here because an argument has broken out and they wanted to say something to the buyer along the lines of ‘the people on H&H forum think I’m in the right.’ I still think it’s slightly strange for a dealer to do this but here we are.
Questions remain, however, about why the adverts changed so much within such a short space of time!
 
I think the purpose of this thread may have been to build a back story of huge support for seller to wave under disgruntled buyer's nose as some sort of proof that the buyers hadn't a leg to stand on and generally scare them off.

Whatever the reason, it was hugely naive to think you could present your case on here without at least a handful of forum members digging deeper before announcing their unwavering support for seller. And extremely rude and unprofessional to insult the general level of 💩detectoring we have on this forum.
 
LarkriseFarmUK said:
Not true. It’s a debate & I find it interesting but debates are just that discussions and options. Nothing personal but we all have a right to one. Most responses are people putting themselves in the buyers position be interesting if any dealers responding with how this would make them feel.
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I am in no way a dealer, but if I sold any living thing and the purchaser was niggling within a day or so of buying, I would move heaven and earth to get the living animal back, regardless of horse, dog, cat, goldfish or a budge.
 
Or maybe the dealer was just having a day where they felt quite alone, and was trying to check from an unbiased group of people whether they were being reasonable or not because they were doubting themselves?

As for selling as a project, some Welshies can be very quirky and need alot of time to build a rapport with, especially if they've only ever known the one home since foaling, so perhaps that's why the focus on how to market and sell changed once the horse was better known to them?
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I think the purpose of this thread may have been to build a back story of huge support for seller to wave under disgruntled buyer's nose as some sort of proof that the buyers hadn't a leg to stand on and generally scare them off.

Whatever the reason, it was hugely naive to think you could present your case on here without at least a handful of forum members digging deeper before announcing their unwavering support for seller. And extremely rude and unprofessional to insult the general level of 💩detectoring we have on this forum.
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OTOH how do we know that the buyer isn't actually reading this thread. They may be getting bits of info and viewpoints that they didn't have previously. Also an insight into the dealer.

I did wonder if this thread was a wind up of some sort, but then I looked up the dealer and they had a website so I'm not sure why they would want to publicise this. Either take it back or go to court, you don't need to tell the horse world. Someone on here will be on dodgy dealers, I'm sure they will shortly be a link to this thread if there isn't one already. OP was last on here late yesterday pm. If this horse was sold to someone geographically close to the dealer someone on here is bound to live there and either know the full story or be asking questions

don't really get it but getting curious why tarnish your reputation as you undoubtedly have done?

PurpleSpots said:
PurpleSpots said:
, and was trying to check from an unbiased group of people whether they were being reasonable or not because they were doubting themselves?
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a group of people who must be well known for checking every inch of someone's story as they have here? I think I would have chosen somewhere without so many amateur detectives. :D:D:D:D
 
gallopingby said:
@Mrs. Jingle may have been a back thread but may also have been ‘free’ publicity - gone wrong!! For her website. Who hasn’t shuffled across to have a look at the very mixed bunch she’s got for sale?
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Very good point and it probably would have worked on a less, shall we say, 'inquisitive' forum. 🤔
 
Marshpiper said:
I know the horse was sold from “the field” but did nobody groom it properly when it came in…?
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I don't understand why so many people selling horses don't bother to get good advert photos. I know it takes a bit of time to wash the muck off and tidy them up, find a clean bridle and get them to stand up nicely, but when you are asking that kind of money for what is really nothing that special, then making them look as good as possible and your business as professional as possible ought to help with better sales.
 
Why do people skimp on vets fees? I did it once and regretted it.Trusted seller.Big mistake.Paid £300 vetting from my vet for current horse.Worth every single penny.Yes she was/is as sound as a pound but he did discover she had two chips!!! Turns out one passport was lost so new passport issued.\genuine.The breeder was local and verified everything.Good to know though.
 
Have just seen the web page. The advert wording is similar to the first FB advert but slightly different; although the phrase 'no lumps or bumps' is not used, the advert states 'Complete history known & no medical issues or injuries at all.'
It is just me or is that quite an unusual claim for a dealer to make? I've seen adverts that say 'no *known* medical issues', but surely it's impossible to say categorically that a horse has no issues at all - this is part of the reason that buyers have horses vetted!
This could, potentially, be the reason for the dispute. Even though there appears to be evidence that the lumps were discussed at viewing, the advert states clearly that there are no medical issues or injuries at all. I think that this could muddy the waters if the case did end up in court.

However, there are still unanswered questions. I know we've given possible explanations for the change in the advert wording, but most dealers/sales livery people I've known wouldn't put out an advert until they'd had chance to assess the horse properly themselves - they certainly wouldn't write an advert solely on the basis of the previous owner's account.
paddy555 said:
a group of people who must be well known for checking every inch of someone's story as they have here? I think I would have chosen somewhere without so many amateur detectives. :D:D:D:D
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Oh, absolutely! it was because of the skill of the amateur detectives that we have Ozzy!
I don't think we would have taken him without the info from the owner who sold him at auction. So I'm personally grateful to the detectives!
 
Tiddlypom said:
*coughs* grooming and removing mud makes any skin lesions more readily visible 👀
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So many conspiracy theories!!

Maybe they were trying to advertise/illustrate what the buyers would be viewing/purchasing?!


Marshpiper said:
I know the horse was sold from “the field” but did nobody groom it properly when it came in…?
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Maybe they thought that only a vet should be capable of doing anything without judgement so they just didn't bother.
 
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