Am I saying the right thing

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Dancing_Diva

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Sorry not great title just didn't know what else to say.

Long story short I've recently given the people who have one of my horses on full loan their 30 days notice to have my horse back. I've explained it's nothing they've done and my reasons to why and they have said they completely understand.

Well there now asking for there money back for the jabs they've paid for while she's been out on loan to them and also want wormer money back also.

I've told them that I will not be paying them back any money that they've paid out whilst she's been with them. Am I right in doing so? Should I be paying them back these costs?

Please help, I just want to go collect my horse without any problems :(
 
Depends what your contract said. Are these jabs and wormer very recent.... Like in the last couple of weeks? If they were, I might be tempted to reimburse to avoid an unhappy situation on collection, but really I think if they've had the horse for some time and it's something the contract says they have to pay for, they'll have to lump it.
 
Yup it's all part of the agreement that all costs of jabs/worming/ along with farrier etc is down to them.

That's what I already knew just wanted others to confirm it.
 
I would say that they are trying it on. It depends what was in the agreement but if it was a full loan then I would have thought that costs like that should have been borne by them.
I used to have a companion pony on full loan and 'maintainence' things like jabs and wormers were down to me. The only time the owner offered to help was when I had an extra vets bill due to a cough he had when I took him on.
 
When were the jabs done? If only recently (ie, no more than a month or so ago), then I'd say fair enough (especially with vet call out on top). As for reimbursing them for wormers, again, if more than a week or so ago, tough - that's like asking your brother to reimburse you for the screen wash you put in your car that he used when he borrowed it for a couple of weeks. Horses cost. If the horse had dropped dead (sorry :( ) rather than you wanting her back - would they still milk you for the money they'd spent?
 
But if they have just paid for vacs / wormer and then you asked for the horse back within a few weeks of them doing this (sorry don't know if that was the case) I might be inclined to go halves, even though the contract stipulates that you don't need to. Also as they have your horse for another 30 days, you don't want to risk an argument / bad feeling now.
 
All was done last year so not recent. We have free call out days where I am so they'd only have had to pay the cost of the jab no call out fees involved. Thanks everyone for confirming my thoughts :)
 
Smurfs Gran, I have them 30 days notice and they've asked me to collects horse by Saturday so I'm having to pay a small fortune for such short notice transport in bringing her back.
 
Depends on your agreement.
I hope you have a written one.
But even a verbal one should indicate who is required to pay certain costs.

Normally someone with a full loan pays everything, like they own the horse. Sometimes the uwbees may pay the insurance or contribute to certain things.


They are probably feeling a bit bitter and trying to be awkward.
 
Dancing_Diva said:
Smurfs Gran, I have them 30 days notice and they've asked me to collects horse by Saturday so I'm having to pay a small fortune for such short notice transport in bringing her back.
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You could say no, you can't collect at short notice.
It the horse was in danger or not being cared for then yes, you would collect at shirt notice, but as it seems its them being awkward again, then you do have a right to make them wait the 30 days before collecting.
Although with them behaving as they are I would collect as soon as possible.
 
It would be better for me to wait the 30 days notice but I just worry that if I don't get her this weekend will I find they'll just box her up and dump her at my yard? They have their own box, I don't think they'd do that but you can never be sure no matter how much you think you know someone!
 
Don't say much to them and say you will discuss it when you pick the horse up. They sound upset and as though they're just being petty/lashing out. Get the horse home safely. When you pick her up tell them the injections and worming were part of the costs they had to take on when they loaned her, explain even if you had felt like refunding it you've had to spend the money on box hire due to them not fulfilling the months notice, say you'd like things to end nicely as they did a good job of looking after your horse. If they calm down give them a nice box of chocs perhaps as a thank you, if not just leave.
 
As the jabs aren't recent then no, I wouldn't pay. RE the pick up, actually I don't blame them. If what I assumed to be a longer-term loan was suddenly pulled out from underneath me, I would probably want the horse gone reasonably soon, obviously after saying my goodbyes, to avoid any further heartache. This is probably quite upsetting for them so I would just bite my tongue about the transport issue.
 
I think it depends on your agreement with them. If they were of the understanding that they had your horse on permanent full loan I can understand them being a bit miffed at taking her on, paying costs and then having her taken back as the nights begin to get lighter. If however it was always agreed you'd have her back at some point and they've had her for a decent while then no, I think you're completely justified in what you've already said.
 
Dancing_Diva said:
It would be better for me to wait the 30 days notice but I just worry that if I don't get her this weekend will I find they'll just box her up and dump her at my yard? They have their own box, I don't think they'd do that but you can never be sure no matter how much you think you know someone!
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I would get her as soon as possible, 30 days is a long time for someone to have your horse where the trust has broken down
 
Can I ask did you discuss you having the horse back before you formally gave them 30 days notice?
If you hadnt I think you would have had the horse back at yours that night if it was me loaning it.
I am sure if it had been discussed properly all this stupidity could have been avoided as both sides could have said what was convenient for them.
 
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Jabs last a year so if you are taking horse back after less than 6 months I can see their point. For fairness why not offer to reimburse pro rata, for example divide bill by 12 and if they had it 10 months you would reimburse 2 lots of a 12th of the bill, if they had it 9 months you'd pay 3 lots etc
 
As someone who has loaned in the past I wouldn't dream of asking for money back for things like that!

When you loan you agree to take on all the day to day costs with the knowledge that the horse does not belong to you and that the owner has the right to ask for the horse back at any point.

The OP has not done anything wrong and has stuck by the letter of the agreement by giving them 30 days notice. She does not need to collect the horse this weekend but given the current attitude of the loaners I would pick up ASAP.
 
Dog Ears said:
According to the British Horse Society, everything comes down to the contract:

http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF Documents/Loaning or Leasing a Horse or Pony.ashx
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My most recent bill for jabs was under £60. Less than the cost of one set of shoes.

The cost of keeping a horse over winter, of shoes, physio, saddler, feed, worming, everything since October dwarf the vaccination costs. Seems very petty to me. I had a loan horse with it written into my contract about frequency of physio / dentist / saddler etc. and that I was responsible for vaccinations. It comes with the territory of loaning a rideable horse IMO.
 
Added to what I wrote before, I think that the proportion of time they've had the horse matters. If less than a year then I would probably give them some of the money back even if they were supposed to pay for it. Unless they've not looked after the horse they ought to have had it a year's loan minimum IMO. Otherwise it's not really nice on them. That is the down side of loaning though, the horse can be taken/given back at any time with notice.
 
Update - went and got my horse back this morning.

Upon getting her back to my yard and removing her rug I was appalled by what I see. My horse looks like a toast rack :( so a good thing she's come back sooner! Never again will I loan out one of my horses!
 
Dancing_Diva said:
Update - went and got my horse back this morning.

Upon getting her back to my yard and removing her rug I was appalled by what I see. My horse looks like a toast rack :( so a good thing she's come back sooner! Never again will I loan out one of my horses!
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Dreadful. Poor horse.
There are good loaners out there though! I have loaned two horses, would never dream of asking for any money back from the owners. In both cases, the horses went back to their owners in as good or better condition than when I took them on loan.

In both cases, though, I also made a point of keeping in touch with the owners by text and email, sharing photos, letting them know about our achievements, and asking advice before changing any element of their routine. I would far rather the owners got too much communication than not enough.

Drafting our loan agreement was also a joint effort. I put in a clause about the welfare of the horse being the first priority in terms of seeking outside treatment from vet, farrier, physio etc. That way, I felt covered if I had to get the vet out at short notice without being able to first clear it with the owner ( our arrangement was for 50:50 split of any bills that come in under the excess).

Hope your mare picks up condition soon - not long till those spring shoots start pushing through thank goodness xx
 
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