Am Nearly Giving Up on Saddles and Riding Ever Again!!

[sjp1]

I have a horse who is irish cob x shire on one half and hackney on the other. He came to me in a lot of pain, unable to be touched or groomed without biting because he was in so much pain. Ridden in a too narrow and too long a saddle with a heavy rider. Four sessions over six months with an amazing back lady, he can now be touched and groomed happily. He had to be sedated to get shoes off - happily I can trim his fronts now and he seems pretty happy shoeless. Saddle fitting however is a whole other issue. He has a space of 17 inches to fit a saddle to. Most 17 inch seat saddles have panels that measure 20 plus inches. He isn't mutton withered, he has a wither, but a wide back. He would be on the wider side of wide, but not massive. Am not looking to get a 1300 quid saddle for him at the moment as he is as fat as a whale - pain has gone - no riding BECAUSE I CANT FIND A SADDLE THAT FITS HIM!! He has a bit of a curve on his back - but that could because he hasn't been worked for months. Anyone, any ideas? Would look at treeless - but am not keen on short girths and dressage straps. Once he has lots weight and his back is where it should be I would look at a new saddle but am not happy to spend 1300 quid on a saddle that might fit him for a nano second until he is the weight and shape he should be. And saddler makers are very retiscent about tree shapes and panels that each type of saddle is made on which makes it even tricker. If anyone has any great ideas, please let me know!!

 

[TPO]

I think in your position you need a fitter with a wide (no pun intended) selection of saddles that you can try.

To try something that might do short term risks setting the horse back and undoing all your good work. It would be worth the money to get a fitter out

 

[sjp1]

TPO - sadly these days the days of fitters with vans full of second hand saddles are long gone!! Saddle fitters appear to be 'hooked' onto one type of saddle these days and all want to fit new saddles. Nothing second hand ever fits in their opinion!

 

[TPO]

TPO - sadly these days the days of fitters with vans full of second hand saddles are long gone!! Saddle fitters appear to be 'hooked' onto one type of saddle these days and all want to fit new saddles. Nothing second hand ever fits in their opinion!

Sadly this seems to be a common theme...

Do you know anyone with similar sized and shaped horses? Could you borrow a variety of saddles to try?

Who ever treats your horse might be able to suggest a saddle especially if she treats anything similarly shaped with a pain free back!

 

[AandK]

TPO - sadly these days the days of fitters with vans full of second hand saddles are long gone!! Saddle fitters appear to be 'hooked' onto one type of saddle these days and all want to fit new saddles. Nothing second hand ever fits in their opinion!

Where are you OP? I had a saddler our last month to my new 6yo and he came with a van full of saddles, old and new. Ended up with a second hand Albion as I too am not looking to spend ££ until he’s finished filling out.

 

[asmp]

My Master Saddler would come out and after looking at the horse would tell me the best saddle that would suit horse's shape and tell me what to look out for. We've done that for the past 3 saddles. She then comes out and fits them.

No idea if this would suit your horse but our wide, short back with a wither horse needed a Ideal H&C (Highland & Cob)

 

[ozpoz]

Have a look at Solution Saddles

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

This might be a terrible idea so happy to be corrected but...what about a bareback pad?

 

[sjp1]

My Master Saddler would come out and after looking at the horse would tell me the best saddle that would suit horse's shape and tell me what to look out for. We've done that for the past 3 saddles. She then comes out and fits them.

No idea if this would suit your horse but our wide, short back with a wither horse needed a Ideal H&C (Highland & Cob)

Tried friends Ideal H&C on him - it was too long as was an 18 inch and too narrow. But I really liked the saddle panels. Is your H&C the Apex? Hers wasn't and I wonder if thats why it sat up too high on him. As I understand it the Apex is for a horse with a wither and the other is for mutton withered?

 

[sjp1]

Have a look at Solution Saddles

I have - and have looked at reviews etc., and am undecided!! They do look like a very good idea. But then some people hate them - and they are expensive!! But I suppose I could hire - which would be money well spent! Do you have the Smart Solution?

 

[sjp1]

This might be a terrible idea so happy to be corrected but...what about a bareback pad?

This might be a terrible idea so happy to be corrected but...what about a bareback pad?

Well, not a terrible idea!! I have been looking at them today!! Then was worrying that I might be injuring him with pressure from stirrup leathers!! I did look at an Icelandic type treeless with a 44/ 48 inch base which was on Kramers website - but am just dithering really!!

 

[asmp]

Tried friends Ideal H&C on him - it was too long as was an 18 inch and too narrow. But I really liked the saddle panels. Is your H&C the Apex? Hers wasn't and I wonder if thats why it sat up too high on him. As I understand it the Apex is for a horse with a wither and the other is for mutton withered?

Ours is not an Appex (bought one by mistake on eBay and had to resell it!). Saddler told us specifically not to get one. What width was the one you tried on? Ours is an extra wide.

 

[ozpoz]

Yes, a dressage one. But it has been fitted on two different horses and if I look at how much I've spent in the past changing saddles through the years, it is well worth the initial outlay. My horses have always been comfortable. You do need to have one of their trained fitters though.

 

[paddy555]

what is wrong with short girths and dressage straps. I have ridden in my treeless for the past 20 years with a dressage length girth and no problems.

 

[Rowreach]

I have - and have looked at reviews etc., and am undecided!! They do look like a very good idea. But then some people hate them - and they are expensive!! But I suppose I could hire - which would be money well spent! Do you have the Smart Solution?

He does actually sound like a prime candidate for an original Solutions saddle (not the Smart) - and you can occasionally find them with short girth billets, or it is a very straightforward thing to get them adjusted.

The original saddles are much more flexible than the Smarts, and personally I much prefer them.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Well, not a terrible idea!! I have been looking at them today!! Then was worrying that I might be injuring him with pressure from stirrup leathers!! I did look at an Icelandic type treeless with a 44/ 48 inch base which was on Kramers website - but am just dithering really!!

Racehorse exercise saddles are designed to fit withered horses in a variety of shapes and sizes. We don't have a saddle for each horse. Each Human has their own saddle that goes from horse to horse. We put a couple of polypads and a riser pad under our saddles. I know there isn't anything to hold you in but it does do your leg, seat and balance the world of good! You can pick them up 2nd hand quite reasonably. Half tree's are really comfey! Full tree's offer a bit more support but to be honest the racehorses seem to prefer the half trees.

https://www.gibsonsaddlers.com/category/saddlery/saddles/exercise-saddles/

 

[Wheels]

I love my solution saddle - the change to my horses topline after using one for just a few months was amazing. Highly recommended

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I love my solution saddle - the change to my horses topline after using one for just a few months was amazing. Highly recommended

Mine, too! She had muscle wastage on one side from a series of not-so-well fitting saddles, which the Solution soon sorted out. Then she had to have 3 months off work because of a hoof abscess and the muscles disappeared again. Again the Solution sorted the problem.

 

[Sleipnir]

The Ghost saddles are what saved me and my horse in a similar situation. They are a tad cheaper than the Solutions, but very well made and extremely adjustable.

 

[Palindrome]

I have just bought the new Wintec Lite and am quite happy with it, my gelding is in a wide gullet, has a short back and medium wither. I would look into trying Thorowgood, Wintec and Tekna, they have cob/wide versions if needed and easy to resell once he has lost weight or if you want a leather saddle down the line. I find Teknas tend to have flatter trees than Wintec, Thorowgood has normal, high wither or cob version. Wintec has a new system with little foam pads that you can insert in the panels. Thorowgood has wool flocking that can be adjusted.

 

[Leo Walker]

Quite honestly with something tricky to fit your options are very limited so you need to get over any sort of preference or likes. It will be a case of what will fit. With 17" for a saddle you are looking at tiny pony saddles which arent going to work for you. You need a very good fitter. Whether they bring saddles or not, you need someone with a wealth of experience who can guide you.

 

[Leo Walker]

The Ghost saddles are what saved me and my horse in a similar situation. They are a tad cheaper than the Solutions, but very well made and extremely adjustable.

Me too, and they are more than a tad cheaper! Mine was £600ish with riser and all the other bits as far as I remember. I had a fitter strip it down and refit it to my pony.

 

[Regandal]

A Lavinia Mitchell fitter should be able to tell you what model of LM saddle will suit your horse. You can then look for one second hand which can be fitted to your horse.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Soooh feeling you pain on this one OP! After having been thoroughly (and expensively) ripped off by a certain "saddle fitting" concern, and being on a somewhat limited budget, I thought what the heck, try treeless.

I haven't looked back. But do bear in mind that "going treeless" isn't just a matter of slapping anything on and hoping for the best; you need a great deal of care and attention paying to correct fit as the vast majority of treeless saddles have a hard gullet in them, and if this isn't right then you can have the edges of it digging into the horse's back! Also bear in mind that in a treed saddle, the pressure of the stirrup bars is diffused throughout the whole saddle as the weight is shared, whereas with a treeless saddle the stirrup bar inset can be a pressure area and you will need to watch this in particular.

With a treeless saddle, the pad which goes underneath, is an intrinsic - and very important - factor. They are essential to the way the saddle fits on the horse's back and their role is to protect and cushion, basically you cannot do without them!

IF you're thinking of this route, it is ESSENTIAL to try a few first. The way I did it was to ask around a few people I know who do ride treeless (endurance riders is a good place to start, or on one of the FB groups!). Initially you need to go for a well known make like Barefoot or Torsion - I picked up a used Barefoot on e-bay for a reasonable price. Some people swear by the Heather Moffat range of treeless saddles, I've a friend who rides in a Ghost saddle and swears by them, but when we tried her saddle on my two horses, it fitted one ideally but didn't sit right on the other, so you will need to be discerning and/or ask a fitter out to establish whether something is a good fit or not - and here is the problem, as SMS fitters rarely, if ever, fit treeless saddles! (they want to make money out of you basically, sorry to anyone on here who IS SMS, but this is what I've found, all SMS fitters are interested in is selling you nice new shiny saddle which if you've got a youngster soon doesn't fit and has to be replaced in a very short time!). But whatever treeless saddle you try, do bear in mind that "treeless riding" will feel different, very different! You will be using different muscles and you will certainly know about it the next day!! You need to try this way of riding for a few days I would say, until you get a bit used to it, before you can properly judge whether it is right for you or your horse.

Some treeless saddles (such as the Barefoot) aren't best suited to wide horses; I have found a lovely saddle which suits me and my horses, which is the "TreeFree Tor"; this has a narrower twist than some treeless saddles and I can heartily recommend not just the quality (hand made) of the saddles but also their after-sales and support/fitting service. You can trial their saddles for a week first too which is helpful, as you can with several other firms if you look at the "Saddles Direct" website. Essential to try a treeless first IME.

Good luck!

 

[honetpot]

I echo everything people has said. If you are on a yard, ask people if you can just try their saddle, even if you do not girth it up, just to see. Make a back template with an old wire coat hanger so you know where the wither starts in relation to the width, so it you are out and see something that may fit you can size it up.
Another thing is learning to place the saddle in the right place on the back, so it sits in to the horse, and keeps the shoulders free.
There is more profit in new saddles so if you pay a fitter to fit what ever buy they will still get some money.
I would second a wide Albion as they have a cut back pommel.

 

[Brownmare]

I had a horse like yours and my Solution saddle was the making of her, she went from a habitual bucker to a saint! I know Solution saddles are a big initial outlay but I have had 2 of them (gp and dressage) over 7 years and they have been used on at least 7 horses in that time so they have saved me a fortune in saddle fitting fees! I would recommemd getting a fitter out with a range of saddles for you to try and to show you how to set up and adjust the pads. If you buy new you can get a trial which is refunded if you buy and there are finance options. They will also shorten the girth straps if you ask.

 

[sbloom]

TPO - sadly these days the days of fitters with vans full of second hand saddles are long gone!! Saddle fitters appear to be 'hooked' onto one type of saddle these days and all want to fit new saddles. Nothing second hand ever fits in their opinion!

Mainly because of the huge direct market facilitated by the internet, the prices people want for their used saddles, and the small amount people want to pay for them mean that even if there was the supply offered to fitters there is often no margin to allow you to make a living. As for the one brand, that's always been the way, 20 years ago I had a fitter out who fitted Albions to almost everything, despite being SMS and stocking several brands.

Well, not a terrible idea!! I have been looking at them today!! Then was worrying that I might be injuring him with pressure from stirrup leathers!! I did look at an Icelandic type treeless with a 44/ 48 inch base which was on Kramers website - but am just dithering really!!

Although people do use bareback pads with stirrups it is not recommended at all.

Racehorse exercise saddles are designed to fit withered horses in a variety of shapes and sizes. We don't have a saddle for each horse. Each Human has their own saddle that goes from horse to horse. We put a couple of polypads and a riser pad under our saddles. I know there isn't anything to hold you in but it does do your leg, seat and balance the world of good! You can pick them up 2nd hand quite reasonably. Half tree's are really comfey! Full tree's offer a bit more support but to be honest the racehorses seem to prefer the half trees.

I'm surprised the horses express a preference for half tree, they can do hideous damage, a much higher rate of damage than regular saddles and especially with wider horses, they are seldom above a medium, but in a race yard you can swap them into another one if they get some damage, shim up etc, but for flatwork etc you have to have the saddle in balance for the rider to be effective. Race exercise riders can cope with a lot. And we're starting out with question mark on how good his back his as it is...which brings me to....

I didn't quote but did see your comment sjp about the slight dip/drop/curve in his back, I would be recommending in hand work like straightness training or similar, if you can work your horse like this now and get a saddle fitted later it would mean most of the change had happened before the saddle fitting.

 

[pansymouse]

You need to talk to Kay Humphries of Norton and Newby - it won't be cheap but it will fit like you never knew a saddle could fit and you won't be forever spending out on back treatments, pads and the like.

 

[Leo Walker]

You need to talk to Kay Humphries of Norton and Newby - it won't be cheap but it will fit like you never knew a saddle could fit and you won't be forever spending out on back treatments, pads and the like.

I dont want to say too much that has sadly not been my experience, fairly recently as well.

 

[Palindrome]

Same for me Leo Walker, the saddle that she picked was horrendous but fortunately on trial so I was able to return it (that was a few years ago). Although I must say my friend has a made to measure semiflex saddle from someone she works with and it has worked for her and her horse.