Amber is lame

hopscotch bandit

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2017
Messages
2,770
possibly... hopefully it wasn't something that was grumbling on then but I have seen other examples of where there's something that is not obvious, treated as a training issue, because that's the way it's been framed by the pro/owner/etc -not through negligence just because there was never anything specific enough going on to mean anyone noticed a physical issue.

Fingers crossed this is something simple and quick to resolve, obviously.
Yep the same thing happened to a friends 4yr old sent for backing to a pro. Pro assumed symptoms were a training issue. When friend saw horse being ridden/heard about issues she quickly realised as a vet physio that the horse needing a referral to a vet hospital. Diagnostics quite soon after found juvenile arthritis, very sadly horse pts few years on.
 

Nari

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 September 2005
Messages
2,594
I once had a horse damage ligaments in the foot when he wrenched a shoe off, do you think she could have done that? He came sound eventually but it took time, and for a good while he was sound in a straight line but I'd still feel it on a turn. He was a tough horse too, for him to show a reaction I knew there was a problem.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
4,583
I once had a horse damage ligaments in the foot when he wrenched a shoe off, do you think she could have done that? He came sound eventually but it took time, and for a good while he was sound in a straight line but I'd still feel it on a turn. He was a tough horse too, for him to show a reaction I knew there was a problem.
Yes that is what I am afraid of. BUT since then she has had quite a few dressage lessons, entered dressage tests online and been to a pro for 8 weeks. Even if I can believe I am utterly clueless and could miss lameness for 6 months, surely someone else would have picked it up? Feeling sick at the possibility that she has been injured since September and I've just not noticed.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
18,938
Yes that is what I am afraid of. BUT since then she has had quite a few dressage lessons, entered dressage tests online and been to a pro for 8 weeks. Even if I can believe I am utterly clueless and could miss lameness for 6 months, surely someone else would have picked it up? Feeling sick at the possibility that she has been injured since September and I've just not noticed.
Kira's last injury really highlighted to me how easy it is to miss a niggling thing, she was not lame, she passed a workup with flying colours and i had deliberately booked in with the top lameness guy at horspital because I was so worried, nothing to feel on palpation or see on scan and we were sent home to wait and see. I knew she wasn't right only because I know what her legs feel like in minute detail! I could have quite easily carried on working her.

Michen only picked up boggle's injury with a very subtle sign. this is not a criticism of anyone but it does show how horses will carry on working even carrying a subtle niggle and can easily be overlooked as crookedness/training issue/weakness etc.

Again, I hope it isn't one of those things, but I would expect they are actually quite common.
 

Roxylola

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 March 2016
Messages
1,731
It's hard when its subtle - if I watch anything hard enough long enough I can see "lameness" especially when being ridden. Shes not a baby horse so it's easy to see an off step and think tension/stiffness/attitude/deep surface/hard surface etc. If shed been clearly lame it's different and possibly if shed been properly trotted up maybe shed have shown lame but all you can do is go forward now
 

Wheels

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 September 2009
Messages
5,360
Yes that is what I am afraid of. BUT since then she has had quite a few dressage lessons, entered dressage tests online and been to a pro for 8 weeks. Even if I can believe I am utterly clueless and could miss lameness for 6 months, surely someone else would have picked it up? Feeling sick at the possibility that she has been injured since September and I've just not noticed.
I think that you, your trainer, a dressage judge or the pro you sent her to would have noticed something was amiss had there been something wrong all this time. OR it was so subtle / intermittent that it was not noticable. Most of us who have dealt with subtle issues always knew there was 'something' not right and you would have known that too
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
5,269
I think that you, your trainer, a dressage judge or the pro you sent her to would have noticed something was amiss had there been something wrong all this time. OR it was so subtle / intermittent that it was not noticable. Most of us who have dealt with subtle issues always knew there was 'something' not right and you would have known that too
I didn’t until I had a few more SJ lessons and saw a pattern. Boggle was trained and watched by Caroline Moore at 2 days of camp and it wasn’t noticed. He hunted all winter, was seen by two different dressage instructors in my area and then another one in Cheshire when he went up there for a month whilst I was travelling.

Its very easy for something subtle to be missed. Instructors aren’t vets, and even vets themselves can struggle to find or see things without tools!

oops quoted wrong post soz!

Also finally to add... the girl who produced him for me when we took him to that indoor to put him over some bigger fences said he felt the best he’d ever felt (bar the disuniting). His flat work was miles ahead of where it was 6 months before... there was absolutely nothing other than the disuniting to suggest I had anything other than a fit horse who was extremely happy in his work. Urghhh I feel your pain though I shudder at hunting him on that injury.
 

SEL

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2016
Messages
5,867
Location
Buckinghamshire
I spent months with instructors and vets telling me she was a bit backwards and needing pushing forward. No matter how many times I said she's forward when she's well. Lost track of the number of trot-ups and even a lunge where I was told her trot was "conservative".

It took an argument in the middle of the yard with me pointing out I was paying to get the suspensory ligaments scanned.

I still beat myself up for not being more assertive earlier on.
 

Abi90

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2007
Messages
1,599
My horse has ringbone in one pastern. It’s most likely due to an accident as a youngster as it’s just the one pastern and it is old and has been there a long while, certainly since she’s been backed.

First vet missed it in vetting, why would he not? She’s not not even lame on flexions. A couple of years ago I had a few issues with her and she went in for a work up where 3 different vets did trot ups and flexions and passed her as completely sound. I chucked her in a field for 6 months and she came back fine. 18 months after that I had similar issues again (although somewhat saddle related). Vet, physio and Chiropractor all say she’s sound and can’t see a problem.

I take her to the vets for a gastroscope and have noticed that morning her Pastern is swollen so ask the vet to take a look at it. Scope is clean but he x rays the pastern and it is pretty advanced on the arthritis front. She comes back in for a work up. When you look at her really closely she has a decreased range of movement in that leg and uses it slightly differently, still not noticeable lame and not lame on flexions. Vet was astounded. They medicated the joint and I got saddle sorted and she’s now fine.

That was 5 vets, 2 physios and 2 Chiros that missed that, we found it by chance. So I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much yet!
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
27,950
All of us who have had horses long enough have been where you are at some point AE.

Horses go lame a lot. There isn't likely to be a connection at all with the pulled shoe 6 months ago, given everything she's done meanwhile.

There's no reason to think she was wrong at the Pro's. I wasn't surprised by his report. She didn't look or sound to me like the kind of horse who would take easily to being ordered about. I wouldn't have thought of physical pain from his report.

Cut yourself some slack.

.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
4,583
Abnormal xrays. Navicular bone looks ragged. Vet thinks DDFT injury running into foot. MRI to confirm or rule out.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
5,269
Abnormal xrays. Navicular bone looks ragged. Vet thinks DDFT injury running into foot. MRI to confirm or rule out.
Oh AE I am so sorry, my stomach just dropped reading this. How did it look in comparison to the other one? The hoofy knowledgable people will I’m sure be along in a minute but I’m SURE you can have awful looking nav bones on x rays and it’s completely irrelevant.

I assume a DDFT injury is better than something chronic, particularly as just in one hoof?

What did the vet say re treatment?

Massive massive hug and BIG glass of wine, a sob and then a plan!! Xx
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
4,583
Other foot looked fine. I asked vet what could be done if it is DDFT injury and he said it depends on degree of damage but he was clear this could be the end as far as jumping/eventing goes.

This is a vet with 20 years experience as a lameness specialist at Newmarket. I think his gut feeling is worth listening to. And he was pretty gloomy. I am trying not to be massively pessimistic but am preparing for the worst.
 

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
5,269
Other foot looked fine. I asked vet what could be done if it is DDFT injury and he said it depends on degree of damage but he was clear this could be the end as far as jumping/eventing goes.

This is a vet with 20 years experience as a lameness specialist at Newmarket. I think his gut feeling is worth listening to. And he was pretty gloomy. I am trying not to be massively pessimistic but am preparing for the worst.
Hope you are as ok as can be. How soon can she get in for an MRI?
 

ponyparty

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 October 2015
Messages
1,345
Oh bloody hell. Sorry to read this AE. Saw your thread when you started it and was hoping for a positive outcome. Let's hope it's not as bad as it initially appears; will be crossing everything for you!
 
Top