Ambulance... Worth complaining about?

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wench

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On way to show today... On main road, but very bendy road, so not going very fast.

Ambulance comes up behind me whilst going around a bend. Then switches it's sirens on, presumably as he thought I wasn't going fast enough/wanted me to pull over - neither of which were feasible.

He then over took me after the bend and switched the sirens off.

I did wonder if he was a bit irresponsible switching his sirens on, which could have upset horse in van.

This makes me sound like one of those really horrid whingy people that think that their horses are more important than anything else in the world, which it's not, but is it worth saying anything to local ambulance service?

Having said that I nearly got run off the road a few years ago by a police car when I was towing my horse trailer'
 
I would complain definitely, aside from the danger of scaring the horses and the implications that could cause you and other road users (you'd think they'd know better!) I'm pretty sure it's an offence to use blues and twos for non emergency situations
 
The sirens were probably because he knew you couldn't pull over or speed up so knew he was going to have to overtake in a dangerous spot so was warning on coming traffic. They only use sirens where needed as a way to warn other road users they are coming through. It sounds cliched but minutes can make a difference so I guess there was someone pretty sick in there or they wouldn't have done it. I doubt it was to 'have a go' at you ( not meaning that in a bad way !)
 
I have no doubt that they were on their way to an emergency. But they didn't overtake in a dangerous part of the road (it was totally straight after then bend), and given it was 8am this morning in a rural county in a quiet area there wasn't much traffic on the road
 
No, I personally wouldn't complain. They obviously felt the need to use the sirens for the situation and it doesn't sound like they were putting you or anyone else in danger by doing so.
 
JLD said:
The sirens were probably because he knew you couldn't pull over or speed up so knew he was going to have to overtake in a dangerous spot so was warning on coming traffic. They only use sirens where needed as a way to warn other road users they are coming through. It sounds cliched but minutes can make a difference so I guess there was someone pretty sick in there or they wouldn't have done it. I doubt it was to 'have a go' at you ( not meaning that in a bad way !)
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I agree with this. It is unsettling and stressful when you can't get out the way of an emergency vehicle but I don't think it was personal.
 
I also had an ambulance do this to me on a country road last year, I acctually felt sasha jump with fright in the lorry..it also startled me... Had they put siren on well before they wanted to overtake I would have heard them and moved over as far as I could. It was a good 500 meters before I found somewhere to pull in and they keep flashing lights at me and sirens going..then glared at me when I pulled in!
 
I've got a close relative who works in hr for a large police deot, and it's not uncommon for coppers to use sirens in non emergency situations but just because they want to cut the traffic or get from a to b quicker. Not saying that's what happened in this case but it can and does happen!
 
A friend of mine had a pony jump the front partition in a horse trailer when a fire engine got in behind them on the motorway and turned the sirens on. They had to unload the pony on the side of the motorway and have the vet out to them when they eventually got it home. They let the local fire department know, they were very apologetic.
 
Country roads can be dangerous going around corners; you never know when you'll meet a tractor coming the other way. So I can understand that they might even have a general training/policy of using the sirens when overtaking like that. Sure in specific situations it might not be needed, but it might well save trouble and lives in the moment by doing so (there's also the case of cyclists or walkers who might be more hidden by hedges or the other vehicle).

It might be worth raising the issue and mentioning that it would be prudent for them to consider using the sirens earlier if they spot a horsebox/animal transport ahead so that it loses a bit of the "sneaking up and then using them very close" which might cause more shock/panic/trouble for any transported animals.
Though of course then some could say that the siren getting louder and louder as it approaches is also a concern so its a near no win situation which almost boils down to what SusieT says (though I'd wager an animal used to sirens would react better to one moving closer whilst active than one activated right up close
 
Had a similar thing a couple of years ago, except it was in the centre of Bath! Pony panicked in the trailer when a fire engine put it's sirens on right next to thebox, which was at lights on a blind bend. Obviously they had to warn others they were coming, and it's was much safer to use them than not, had they nother, there may have been a huge accident.

They need to weigh up the risks and make a decision there and then. I thinner Overead makes a good point there ^^^^ where she mentions asking them to consider the use of sirens sooner, it would be much less of a shock.

Ax
 
Natwood said:
I've got a close relative who works in hr for a large police deot, and it's not uncommon for coppers to use sirens in non emergency situations but just because they want to cut the traffic or get from a to b quicker. Not saying that's what happened in this case but it can and does happen!
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Really glad you posted this.
A few years ago we were continually having police cars flying past our house ( quiet country lane) with sirens blaring. The road is completely straight but about a quarter of a mile further on there is a short 30mph limit, at this point the sirens were always turned off. These incidents happened regularly at the same time of day and always in the same direction. I found this very odd so I phoned the police complaints and ended up having a flaming row. Oddly enough it hasn't happened since!
 
No I wouldnt complain, emergency services don't put their sirens on for no good reason or to spook your horse.

If it was your relative in that ambulance I doubt you'd be thinking of the horses you may or may not spook.

You could ring and make a suggestion but I wouldn't be complaining about them just trying to do their job.

As someone who's training to be a paramedic and who will be out working again with my local service I'd hope people would understand that if the sirens are on its an emergency.
 
I have had a similar experience except I was leading two horses at the time.
My neighbour's chimney was on fire, and I'd seen the fire engine going down the lane when I was fetching our horses in, so I thought it was safe to leave the field and head back to home (it's a narrow single track lane). About half way along a vehicle came up behind me and (as usual on our lane) I was going to go in the next gateway to let it past.
Before I could reach the gateway, he put the sirens on. It was a Fire Service car, and I mean a little tiny hatchback, not a fire engine or rescue vehicle. I couldn't believe he'd started them up when he was right behind us. Well, those two old horses shot off along the lane as if they were running the Grand National, with me hanging on for grim death in between them.
I did think he was a bit of an idiot, but was too busy trying to keep up to say anything at the time.
 
Natwood said:
I've got a close relative who works in hr for a large police deot, and it's not uncommon for coppers to use sirens in non emergency situations but just because they want to cut the traffic or get from a to b quicker. Not saying that's what happened in this case but it can and does happen!
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My OH was a Road Policing Unit Sergeant for many years (Traffic police). Sirens are not allowed when not on an emergency call. If the driver was involved in a collision whilst misusing sirens and lights, they would be in a disciplinary situation. It may have happened in times gone by, but if any officer were to do that now, they clearly wouldn't be bothered about losing their job.
 
I wouldn't complain but I would mention regarding livestock. Sirens aren't standard road noise and how do you get a horse used to them? Could a horse cause an accident if sirens are put on and a horse panics in the trailer/horsebox and thrashes about?
Would they still use sirens if a rider was on horseback? (I'm not sure if anything is included in their training regarding the fact that horses are spooky?)
 
Agree with above comments about how possibly putting sirens on earlier would perhaps be a better idea.

A poster above mentioned training regarding the use of sirens. I've actually wondered about this as we get a lot of ambulances down the main road here and I've noticed that all the drivers seem really considerate of the horses (to the point that I assumed it must just be policy).

They all turn their sirens off as soon as they see the horses. (I've even had one do this when I wasn't actually on the road but on a pathway running parallel to the road about 20-30m away from it). When they pass me with the trailer, even just going in the other direction, I've noticed that they turn their sirens off too. I just assumed they'd been trained to do that.
 
Holly Hocks said:
My OH was a Road Policing Unit Sergeant for many years (Traffic police). Sirens are not allowed when not on an emergency call. If the driver was involved in a collision whilst misusing sirens and lights, they would be in a disciplinary situation. It may have happened in times gone by, but if any officer were to do that now, they clearly wouldn't be bothered about losing their job.
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This. My oh uses blues and twos and he has to have good reasons for using them. I'm pretty sure there's a thing in the car or the radio that links and will inform when he's using them so he must have a legitimate reason.
 
holeymoley said:
This. My oh uses blues and twos and he has to have good reasons for using them. I'm pretty sure there's a thing in the car or the radio that links and will inform when he's using them so he must have a legitimate reason.
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This is true of ambulances too, control can see everything including your siren siren/ blue light choices.

You will get in trouble for using them inappropriately.
 
So I shall answer as a pony owner AND a paramedic...

There would crtainly be no harm in a letter re using sirens from a greater distance when aware of a livestock carrier so as to minimise fright to the animals on board but I am doubtful of the impact it will have ...... when driving under blue light conditions I certainly try to be more aware of proximity to horses (including police horses) when it comes to use of sirens. However, in all honesty, there is so much information to process and concentration involved in conducting a safe emergency drive that there is a limit to the degree we are able, or have time, to identify a vehicle's purpose, i.e livestock carrying (and realistically how many people not involved with horses would identify a horsebox at a glance?).

In the circumstances you describe it sounds as thought the sirens were indeed used to warn approaching traffic of the ambulance's presence rather than to chastise or hurry you along. Having said that it is scary how many drivers are oblivious to our presence UNTIL we switch the tones on (the alternative is to follow the Fire and Rescue model of activating lights and sirens constantly regardless of surroundings and time of day/night!) and then know not what to do to assist our passage (not suggesting any of this is you, wench ;-)!) so there may have been an element of also warning you of their intention to overtake. As a driver on an emergency call our attention may also be momentarily distracted by updates from control regarding the job to which we are en route, or even a radio call advising of updates or re-routing to something more serious. We do our utmost in the most difficult of circumstances but are only human.....

wench said:
On way to show today... On main road, but very bendy road, so not going very fast.

Ambulance comes up behind me whilst going around a bend. Then switches it's sirens on, presumably as he thought I wasn't going fast enough/wanted me to pull over - neither of which were feasible.

He then over took me after the bend and switched the sirens off.

I did wonder if he was a bit irresponsible switching his sirens on, which could have upset horse in van.

This makes me sound like one of those really horrid whingy people that think that their horses are more important than anything else in the world, which it's not, but is it worth saying anything to local ambulance service?

Having said that I nearly got run off the road a few years ago by a police car when I was towing my horse trailer'
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Rough - out of interest is there any part of the siren training that you've had which mentions and draws awareness to situations where siren use could cause potential trouble (eg use around livestock/in close proximity).

Certainly there is a lot to process, but sometimes even just mentioning an element like that and making it a part of training; even if only at a basic level, would at least raise awareness in the drivers. Might be they can't use it every time, but it might at least be there for when it can be used.

Thinking further do they keep maps of the local area with planned routes or safe/unsafe routes? I'm thinking more of the case that roads known to be blocked during bad weather (eg fords during high rainfall) get marked thus it might be an idea to expand and have some kind of siren use policy in areas near bridle pathways or roads down which there are active riding schools.
 
I have had an ambulance approach with its sirens on whilst riding a very large fit TB over a railway bridge!! That driver very nearly created two more casualties - the language was fairly choice!!
 
There is a chance they came around the corner and saw a van, not a van carrying horses? We have a lot around here that don't look any different to a delivery van from the back.
 
They only put their sirens on when they need people to be aware they are there and need them to move over as soon as it's safe to do so.
They were probably on their way to an emergency call but rather than disturb everyone they just let who they need to know, they are there.
I live next to a hospital and they don't put their sirens on through the estate, just their lights unless they need you to move, however once on the main road they put their toes down and blast the sirens.
They are normally also very good with the riders that hack around the estate and often slow down and turn the sirens off whilst passing the horses.
 
The van has "horses" written in large letters on the back door. He only put his sirens on as he caught up with me as I was going around the corner.

Hard to explain without you actually being on the road, but the bend is almost 90 degrees, and has high hedges/trees either side, so you cant see what is in front of you/on the other side of the road, until you are actually on the bend, so he didn't put his sirens on until he actually saw me... rather than doing it before the bend to warn anyone he was coming.

The bend we met on is three miles away from the ambulance station where he came from, so I would expect the driver to have a knowledge of the local roads.

That said, as per my first post, I am not "moaning" per sea, as ambulance drivers do a very good job, and that when you are driving to get to an emergency, things arent quite so black and white, but I wondered if maybe the drivers training could do with a little bit more livestock "common sense"?
 
Natwood said:
I've got a close relative who works in hr for a large police deot, and it's not uncommon for coppers to use sirens in non emergency situations but just because they want to cut the traffic or get from a to b quicker. Not saying that's what happened in this case but it can and does happen!
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Rubbish!! I suppose they use it to get to their tea breaks on time!! Yawn!!
 
DipseyDeb said:
Rubbish!! I suppose they use it to get to their tea breaks on time!! Yawn!!
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Nice urban myth :D Of course, if someone works in HR they will be fully conversant on what happens in individual vehicles half way across the city! Maybe they have been spun a tale, seems likely to me.

I used to be a blues and twos user, and agree with the paramedic that when driving like this it is busy, you are on your way to something stressful and as you have the lights on time does matter, even seconds.

I am computing the best, safest and quickest way there. I am deciding where to best put the sirens on, as if you do it too early the driver often becomes dithery, may slow or stop next to an obstruction, may brake suddenly.... so often I would wait until I am almost ready, the road is clear ahead, then use them to warn people I am there (usually unexpectedly as most people do not seem to use their mirrors).

I need to do this as people do not expect a high speed overtake, and may decide to turn right across me, as they perceive that they are doing the speed limit and so no one would be passing.

I would also say that in a busy situation I would be judging speed and distance, and not reading what was sign written on the backs of vans.

OP, if you feel you were wronged then feel free to complain. From the other side though I doubt the crew of the ambulance had anything on their mind other than saving someone's life. I doubt they even knew it was a horsebox.

We did have training not to startle ridden horses, also bikers, old grannies crossing the road, and plenty on upsetting dithery drivers so they do silly things like block the road; but no input on horses in boxes or fields.
 
I have had one very bad experience with an ambulance while riding and one very good one.

The bad one, dispute getting out the way ( onto the verge/entrance to drive about 4 meters from the road) of both the ambulance and the cars so they could also move out the way. The ambulance decides to put it's sirens on while the other side of a van right next to us! Horse almost tock off up a foot path. Luckily I stopped him or he could of knocked someone over.

The good, first response car on a single track lane. I signalled for him to turn off his sirens, he did and his lights and he stopped. We trotted to the next passing point while I signalled for him to come passed us. He did this with care and did not put sirens or lights on again till a good way off!

I know that it's more often than not life or death situation that they are going to but sometimes I wonder if they think about what's around them. Is it worth causing another accident but not considering the environment that they are driving through?
 
We regularly encounter ambulances and police heading out of the local station. The ambulances are always great (but we don't mind them using the tones, because it gives us more time to get off the road and clear the way), as are the local plods. It's the speed cops who're the worst offenders. They often pass us (bunch of kids on ponies) with blues'n'twos, doing 80 in their unmarked BMW's, and clearly haven't noticed that there's 3/4 mile of 30 and 40 mph village road before they get to the dual carriageway... and these guys are on their way to harass some poor speeding sales rep, not save a granny.
 
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