American Horse Shopping explained with video.

BunnyDog said:
Speaking honestly, we have a very very big aversion to Chestnut mares as a country. They're easily the hardest type of horse to sell. Even the super talented ones.

The comments about this forum are on page 7.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/...jumper-prospects-tell-me-what-you-think/page7

But then we all got distracted when someone was talking about being foolish to buy an American Saddlebred in England.

Em
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Thanks for the pointer; I had skipped a few pages and missed the discussions both of H&H and of the American Saddlebreds.

I think that the posters in the thread were really quite relaxed and restrained. Much more so than posters on some other American sites I frequent... :rolleyes3:
 
Faracat said:
I really don't understand the anti chestnut mare thing at all. It is bad enough here but it sounds like it is worse over the pond. :( It's some weird combination of sexism and colourism.

Chestnut + mare = bad
Chestnut + gelding = good
Grey (but genetically chestnut) + mare = good
Palomino (genetically chestnut + cream) + mare = good etc...

It makes no sense, it is prejudice, purely and simply.

My chestnut mare is worth her weight in gold to me.
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There's no arguing with people over personal preferences like that. It's like blokes preferring blondes over brunettes, or over redheads.
 
I read a few pages, and I think that the Americans are right about successful show jumpers in the USA. There have been very many extremely successful show jumpers from America, over a great many years too.
 
It's more than just a personal preference though so I don't think that your example is a direct equivalent. But you are right, there's no point in arguing with people who are set in their minds however wrong, biased or idiotic their reasons are. :(
 
Yes that’s the one. Presumably she had him vetted, so any drugs would show up?
The picture of the Irish mare is really good, and I thought, oooh she’s gorgeous, but having watched the video, I did not like her way of going, her canter wasn’t very nice, she loooked quite scratchy in front and £17,500 for a horse that comes back to trot on corners?!
conniegirl said:
Oh dear! That one was the lame/possibly drugged one right?

I’m still in shock over the prices!
This has just popped up in the side bar and looks lovely. I recon by the time you added currency conversion and shipping he would still be cheaper than the one she bought and a hell of a lot more likely to do what she wants it to
https://classifieds.horseandhound.c...445.443806563.1520322909-579370074.1441818945
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Just to clarify the current American color preferences:

OTTB:
Dapple Grey and over 16.2 IDEAL Geldings
Dapple Greay under 16.1 and Mares - not as much
Dark Bay gelding and over 16.2 with lots of Chrome - Second choice of ideal
Same in a mare, slightly less desirable
Chestnut Geldings with chrome over 16.2 -least desirable of all geldings. Liver chestnuts a bit more.
Chestnut mares with or without chrome... any size under 17 hands, very challenging to sell.

NON Ottb's

All colors and sizes EXCEPT chestnut mares- Sell relatively easily. More so if came in on a plane
Chestnut mares - Good luck unless marketed by a big name trainer.

Em
 
siennamiller said:
Yes that’s the one. Presumably she had him vetted, so any drugs would show up?
The picture of the Irish mare is really good, and I thought, oooh she’s gorgeous, but having watched the video, I did not like her way of going, her canter wasn’t very nice, she loooked quite scratchy in front and £17,500 for a horse that comes back to trot on corners?!
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The flatwork video is very stuffy but if you look at the jumping videos she is a lot more forwards and her paces far better. I think it would be a fairly easy fix by not hanging on to the front end quite as much
 
BunnyDog said:
Chestnut Geldings with chrome over 16.2 -least desirable of all geldings. Liver chestnuts a bit more.
Chestnut mares with or without chrome... any size under 17 hands, very challenging to sell.

NON Ottb's

All colors and sizes EXCEPT chestnut mares- Sell relatively easily. More so if came in on a plane
Chestnut mares - Good luck unless marketed by a big name trainer.

Em
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What's the reasoning for the chestnut prejudice? Is it because they are deemed less trainable, or is it an aesthetic thing?

Chestnuts are my favourite!
 
It's true that when a ginger plays up, even in the UK, it's because it's ginger. If that ginger is also a mare, then the prejudice comes out. Mine is dark liver chestnut, with lots of chrome, so gets away with playing up as just being energetic. She's not orange enough. But if her ginger neighbour did the same, she'd be labelled dangerous.
 
SpringArising said:
Ah! So a training thing.

We actually do have that in the UK about chestnut mares too, but to a way lesser extent!
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I looked at a lovely chestnut mare in Ireland. I just couldn't do it. I knew that unlike every other horse I was looking at, her value would plummet once she landed in the USA. Sad because she was fun and had a fairly expansive record.

Em
 
9tails said:
It's true that when a ginger plays up, even in the UK, it's because it's ginger. If that ginger is also a mare, then the prejudice comes out. Mine is dark liver chestnut, with lots of chrome, so gets away with playing up as just being energetic. She's not orange enough. But if her ginger neighbour did the same, she'd be labelled dangerous.
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When I was a kid, that was a common prejudice in school against ginger-haired kids. There weren't many (and I wasn't one of them), but they suffered at tha hands of both other kids and teachers.

That's changed in my lifetime; I have two redhead children, and they've never suffered bullying from the other kids over it, let alone from staff.

So maybe there's hope for the chestnut and ginger mares, yet...
 
Am I the only one who doesn't think the prejudice against chestnut mares is completely baseless?

I've had many horses, and among them the bright chestnuts have been the least easy to train. So much so that I've had to promise my OH never to buy another bright chestnut. If you add the sensitivity of a mare to that mix, it would, in my experience, increase the risk that an ordinary owner will and up with a horse they find too difficult considerably.

Of course, most of them are fine. This is only a matter of percentages. But in my experience, the percentage of bright chestnut that will give you trouble, compared with the percentage of bays, is higher.

Is there any research anyone knows of?

I asked an anesthetist a while ago if they really do give more anesthetic to redhead humans, and he said they did, but that it was frowned on to talk about it.
 
I have 5 chestnuts here out of 7 on the yard, my oldie is very bright with loads of white he was one of the easiest I have ever had but was brought up and started correctly, he came to me as a 5 year old just backed from his breeder, of the others they are all straightforward apart from 1 that we had in as a 5 year old for schooling and came back with serious SA from living alone for 5 years, he is an easy ride but tricky on the ground at times.
My only chestnut mare is a sec a who doesn't do much but is the sweetest natured pony who is extremely intuitive and should probably be a therapy pony, my experience with chestnut mares of a larger model has been limited because I often buy to sell and know they are going to be more tricky to move on so I have always avoided them, it is not just the US that has a prejudice.
 
I've had a few chestnuts, I had a TB pony when I was a kid and he was wild, but that was just the way he'd been ridden all of his life.
The 2 mares I have now are both a little tricky, one much more than the other, but again they are products of their early life so not really a fair test.

I've known some big orange geldings that are just the kindest, most genuine easy souls, all of them Irish draft to a degree and not what I would describe as particularly sensitive ;)

We have 4 other chestnut girls on the yard at the moment, 3 are very feisty but that's their breeding and they would be the same in any other colour, the other is kind and dobbinish... I'm not sure that there's a lot of truth in the chestnut mare myth tbh :)
 
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