American v. British dressage

[Caol Ila]

My yard has started putting on mini, informal dressage shows. The first one was last night, which I didn't participate in due to my horse having an abscess last week and then I was out of town from Saturday to Tuesday. I watched it, read a Novice test for a friend, and wished I'd ridden. Horse was sound but only got the all clear from the farrier on Friday. Anyway, for the future, I looked for the BD Novice and Elementary tests and felt baffled. First of all, it's almost impossible to find them for free, so I don't know what's on it. USDF gives all of it tests out as free downloads (here if you're interested: https://www.usdf.org/downloads/forms/2019.asp), so you can see how they expect horses to progress up the levels. And within the level, the tests have a clear progression -- First Level Test 1 is easier than First Level Test 2, which is easier than First Level Test 3. The BD ones seem to have a slightly random numbering system. Or maybe it isn't, but I can't figure it out because accessing them is hard.

For what it's worth, the wee show is running Novice 22 and Elementary 53.

Secondly, the progression on the BD tests (as far as I can tell), doesn't seem to suit us. USDF tests introduce lateral work early on. Leg yield in First Level, and then shoulder-in and traverse in Second. The British equivalents seem to be Novice and Elementary, which don't seem to contain any lateral movements. Novice introduces a more difficult counter canter line than USDF First level. On the USDF test, you canter a gentle curved serpentine along the long side. You don't counter canter a straight line after a short diagonal until Second Level. I used to pick up points on the leg yield/shoulder-in and tried to compensate for a terrible counter canter.

 

[milliepops]

elementary has leg yield and shoulder-in in some tests. S-in was removed for some time but reintroduced to decrease the gulf to medium, where travers and half pass are brought in as well.

I don't think it's perfect but there's enough reasons why people stay in prelim forever without bunging in sideways that they are intimidated by - i see the lower levels as more aimed at rider participation than reflecting the training of horses, particularly. My horses go sideways before they canter in the school for the sake of control and balance as much as anything, but I'm happy to just have basic shapes in prelim tests, accepting that they have to show 3 basic paces in a 4 min test. I don't structure my training on the order of competition tests tbh, I introduce things as the horse seems ready to benefit from it, so my prelim level horse is half passing in trot now but he's not really capable of doing a good canter round the track yet.

 

[Wheels]

You should not find BD tests for free online - there is a fee for them and they get updated every now and then as well so you have to buy new. A basic printout is not very much money and you can get them from the likes of dressage diagrams etc. to help you learn the tests. Some flow easier than others, the numbering system can throw you a bit as the higher the test number it is logical that the test is harder but it doesn't always work that way. Plus - different horses have different strengths so a test that one finds easier is not easier for all horse and rider combos

Dressage Ireland tests are free online but they don't usually flow as well as the BD ones, can be a bit more confusing. There aren't as many tests as BD have. Most DI shows use BD tests with the odd DI one thrown and and there are usually DI tests at the finals etc. They are all available on the website and they have similar movements and progression to them as the BD ones so they might help you to picture what is at each level

 

[milliepops]

so on reading the US tests I can understand why they seem really progressive, because each one specifically tells you what it's introducing and it more or less includes all the preceding moves. But there are only 3 per level whereas in BD there's a multitude of tests at each (national) level so there's the ability to pick and choose to suit your horse - if you're bad at rein back like mine you can largely avoid it for the normal shows, for instance. if you are good at flying changes, go at AM98 cos there's loads of them. for qualifications, there's still the ability to choose qualifying tests that suit you better than others. I quite like that - everyone gets the same reckoning at the champs, anyway.

there are some funny discrepancies though, we have G+R at intro, but it doesn't seem to appear until 3rd level, and walk piris come in before changes with BD but there they are alongside multiple flying changes

 

[Cortez]

Having done most of my "young horse" training in the US when I had a stud farm, I much prefer the US Training - 1st- 2nd level tests to the BD ones.

 

[milliepops]

Having done most of my "young horse" training in the US when I had a stud farm, I much prefer the US Training - 1st- 2nd level tests to the BD ones.

for horse development? I don't think the BD intro tests are great for young horses, they are more complex than the early US tests by far. That's why I think they are about getting rider participation rather than the horses. there are specific young horse tests for those aiming at the age classes which are a bit more sensible IMO.

 

[Caol Ila]

What's on a BD intro test?

I suppose I like the clear progression of the USDF tests. I guess it's what I'm familiar with and having grown up with it, whereas the BD ones felt like looking at a seemingly random collection of movements and thinking, "WTF?"

But I've never been near a dressage show since moving here, so I still see the world though USDF dressage, and BD looks quite foreign.

The wee shows at my barn seem to be specifying which tests you do. So there's no scope for choosing the one that's easiest for you and your horse.

I've noticed that neither Novice or Elementary has what Yanks call a 'stretchy-chewy circle,' where you lengthen the reins and the horse stretches his head and neck downwards, while hopefully not losing contact or rhythm. It's in all the low level USDF tests. I don't know if Brits call it that. I've never seen anyone schooling a horse here doing one.

 

[daffy44]

Prelim, Novice and advanced medium all have the stretchy trot circle.

 

[Caol Ila]

But not all the tests? Definitely no stretchy trot circle in Novice 22.

 

[milliepops]

What's on a BD intro test?

I suppose I like the clear progression of the USDF tests. I guess it's what I'm familiar with and having grown up with it, whereas the BD ones felt like looking at a seemingly random collection of movements and thinking, "WTF?"

But I've never been near a dressage show since moving here, so I still see the world though USDF dressage, and BD looks quite foreign.

The wee shows at my barn seem to be specifying which tests you do. So there's no scope for choosing the one that's easiest for you and your horse.

I've noticed that neither Novice or Elementary has what Yanks call a 'stretchy-chewy circle,' where you lengthen the reins and the horse stretches his head and neck downwards, while hopefully not losing contact or rhythm. It's in all the low level USDF tests. I don't know if Brits call it that. I've never seen anyone schooling a horse here doing one.

I watched a whole class doing the stretchy chewy circle at the winter champs, it's at prelim mainly though one of the intro tests also includes a stretchy circle.

Intro test have I would say, more transitions than the US tests, they are just walk and trot but there's a bit more going on . Intro A is very straightforward, B has the stretchy circle in trot, C has a weird thing with 10m circles in walk where you G+R the inside rein and there's a trot serpentine too.

You can't pick and choose at one venue on one day, but when I look at the BD calendar, usually there are 10 or 15 shows within travelling distance in a month (why I love living in Gloucestershire!) that I can choose if I want to do or avoid a particular test, because they will often be doing different ones. Just out of chance or because some are short or long arena tests.

eta many,many more if looking unaff too!

 

[milliepops]

But not all the tests? Definitely no stretchy trot circle in Novice 22.

no because there are so many tests, they all have different things in them within what's permitted at the level, rather than showing everything at the level.

 

[daffy44]

no because there are so many tests, they all have different things in them within what's permitted at the level, rather than showing everything at the level.

Exactly, because there are a number of tests at each of the non FEI levels, you cant put everything into every test, and it allows a nice range, so a simpler test for a first try at a level, then a harder one for Championships, and also for the horses more established at the level.

But the stretchy circle is alive and well and in more than one level, just not in every single test.

 

[milliepops]

Exactly, because there are a number of tests at each of the non FEI levels, you cant put everything into every test, and it allows a nice range, so a simpler test for a first try at a level, then a harder one for Championships, and also for the horses more established at the level.

But the stretchy circle is alive and well and in more than one level, just not in every single test.

yeah. I would say our set tests are similar to freestyles in that there's a core of things you tend to see at every test in a level (like say, shoulder in, half pass and medium trot/canter at medium) and then there's permitted extras that vary.

I really like the variety, particularly when you bring subsequent horses up through the levels because they all have different strengths so a bogey test can become easier & vice versa, it makes life interesting. I noticed it most when first moving up to AM because the placement of the changes in different tests influenced whether my horse found it easier or not. on the short diagonals it was hard to get a good change. on the AM98 serpentine, much easier

 

[HazuraJane]

This is a very interesting thread. I see value in both American and British progression requirements through the levels.

 

[milliepops]

yeah its interesting to see the differences. CI isn't there some kind of award system when you do each level? I seem to remember a discussion about that when there was a thread about an amateur rider having a rather unsuccessful go round a high level test that was broadcast live. I dont think we have anything like that, rider groups don't count for that much these days.

 

[daffy44]

yeah its interesting to see the differences. CI isn't there some kind of award system when you do each level? I seem to remember a discussion about that when there was a thread about an amateur rider having a rather unsuccessful go round a high level test that was broadcast live. I dont think we have anything like that, rider groups don't count for that much these days.

Yes, I think that there is a bronze, silver and gold medal that you gain by getting two scores over 60% at certain levels, I'm pretty sure gold is GP, but I'm not sure of the other levels. I could be wrong, thats my memory of how it works, but I'm happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge of the system than me.

 

[McFluff]

If you download the BD app it (certainly used to) come with free credits which lets you see a few tests. Until your credit runs out!

 

[Caol Ila]

My knowledge of the awards stuff is rusty because I never got that far. But I think that to get a bronze, you need a few scores at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Level over 60%. To get a silver, you need a few scores at 4th and PSG over 60%, and for a gold, you need a few scores at I1, I2, and GP over 60%.

That said, it's just a thing to make riders feel warm and fuzzy inside. There are no gatekeepers stopping people from progressing up the levels. You don't need X amount of scores over Y at 2nd Level to progress to 3rd. That's why the video milliepops mentioned caused such a kerfuffle. The rider shouldn't have been riding at that level (PSG? GP? I can't remember) but no one could stop her. The thing is... most people don't do that, so it's not a massive problem and the internet furor died down without the USDF having to do anything.

That all said, if you want to show at a big regional show, you do need qualifying scores at smaller shows in your region. I used to go to the USDF regionals for Colorado and to get in, I had to collect enough scores over 60% from shows earlier that summer. But the local shows have no qualifying rules, and you can enter in any class you want.

The tests within the level get harder -- or at least more complicated -- but for some horses 1st Level Test 3 might be easier than Test 2. Classes at shows will be the test. So you enter the 1st Level Test 2 class, and the judge has to watch a million people riding that test. And it is always a lot for those low levels The show will also have a 1st Level Test 1 class, and a 1st Level test 3 class. Some people will ride all three tests in their class, but many will just ride one or two, and some might do a Training or a 2nd Level class as well.

Then there's the amateur rule. This is fun. If you're a groom, you're still an amateur, but if at any point in your life you have taught riding or been paid to ride, you no longer get to be an amateur. You're a professional. I had a job one year teaching riding in an equine therapy program -- the kids were referred to us by Social Services or on Probation for all kinds of criminal offenses -- which meant I would have lost my USDF ammy status (luckily, I'd quit dressage shows so it didn't matter). Had I wanted to show, I would have been scored against the Steffan Peters of the Colorado dressage world. People really hate the amateur rule. It's meant to let non-pros get scored against one another and pros get scored against one another and make it all fairer, but it doesn't work that well because their definition of a "pro" is way too broad.

 

[milliepops]

yeah the amateur rule is a really tricky beast and it's something that I'm personally glad that BD hasn't implemented, even though there are people who clearly don't feel it's right that amateurs should be competing against pros. i think it's impossible to divide up classes so that everyone feels like they are competing against their peers because "fair" looks different from different POVs but I think the current iteration is the best one so far. The Open/Restricted attempt was a bit too limiting I thought.

I don't think we have much in the way of qualifying scores for normal shows. you can't ride at PSG or above without a qualifying score at advanced, so that might have prevented the situation in the video. and if you have a carcrash test and end up with a really low score you have to go back and re-do that advanced qualification. But essentially it's a free for all otherwise, though I guess people generally don't want to get a rubbish score on their record so would tend to stick within their competency.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, there was a thread on the COTH forums that went on for hundreds of posts, and people were upset on behalf of that horse and wanted the USDF to revamp its whole system. But most people don't want to make an arse out of themselves in the public eye of a dressage show. They weren't going invent a whole new qualifying system because one person was an idiot.

There's always chat about revising the ammy rule but no one has a clue how to do it in a way that's more equitable and not horrendously complicated. But right now, someone who is a working student for a top trainer gets scored against podunk ammy on a quarter horse, while someone who's teaching juvenile delinquents very basic horsemanship skills gets scored against the top pros in the country.

 

[AUB]

I looked into doing online comps but quickly gave up because I couldn’t figure the BD-system out and would have to pay to even see the sheets. I tried to see some tests on youtube, but couldn’t figure out the progression

I’m Danish and the test system here is more logical, I think. The difficulty progresses, sheets are free and online and we use many of the fei tests too.

I don’t even understand what the BD equivalent to the fei 5year olds test would be?

 

[milliepops]

Fwiw quite a lot of the tests do turn up on googling where riding clubs etc have uploaded them ?

 

[scats]

There’s definitely a stretchy 20 metre circle in trot in one of the intros. I think it might be Intro B?
I’ve never looked at the US tests, will go and have a look now.

A bit like MP says, I don’t necessarily use the BD tests as a way of helping me train. My horse competing at prelim (could do novice easily, but the classes always run too late for me) regularly does a decent trot half pass and travers at home, but still struggles with counter canter and has pretty much no medium trot.

 

[daffy44]

I looked into doing online comps but quickly gave up because I couldn’t figure the BD-system out and would have to pay to even see the sheets. I tried to see some tests on youtube, but couldn’t figure out the progression

I’m Danish and the test system here is more logical, I think. The difficulty progresses, sheets are free and online and we use many of the fei tests too.

I don’t even understand what the BD equivalent to the fei 5year olds test would be?

I dont know the Danish system, so I cant comment on it, except to say Denmark produces some lovely horses! But to risk stating the obvious, there isnt a BD equivalent to the FEI 5yr old test, because BD also uses the FEI test. BD do also have their own YH tests, but the FEI ones are also used.