Amount of work...

[Queenbee]

But is IS the answer to the question you were asking - I genuinely believe it is not me who is being deliberately obtuse at this point.

I cannot answer your question any more clearly than I already have. It is too much because of the lunging - you could do the same "amount" of work purely hacking and I'd say it was fine. I don't get how you can't see that this is my only possible, accurate, true answer to your question.

Can't you see that the nature of the work you are already doing influences the answer to the question? If not, then I guess I give up

Yes, but that is my absolute point... The nature of the work I'm already doing does influence the answer, which is why I am asking...
If you were working a horse who was four years old on the Pessoa on a long and low setting for 10 mins, would you think this was enough for the day or would you feel that a hack was ok in addition to this...

It's because I'm aware that the nature of the work I'm already doing influences the answer that I'm asking the question... Especially because of the nature of the work...

 

[JFTDWS]

I think the suggestions about you being unwell are in relation to you being irrational and rude, not the fact that you lunge your horse.

This, resoundingly this.

I resent being put in an "anti-lunging brigade" It's not even accurate

 

[JFTDWS]

Yes, but that is my absolute point... The nature of the work I'm already doing does influence the answer, which is why I am asking...
If you were working a horse who was four years old on the Pessoa on a long and low setting for 10 mins, would you think this was enough for the day or would you feel that a hack was ok in addition to this...

It's because I'm aware that the nature of the work I'm already doing influences the answer that I'm asking the question... Especially because of the nature of the work...

But how is "that's already too much of the wrong sort of work" not a sensible and logical response to that question - that's what people are saying. You might not agree with it, you might not like it, but if that is what people believe, that is the response they will give to that question. And it is a response to that very question

 

[Queenbee]

Nope QB Henry is with me and being a youngster in a field at his young age.
Not strapped down by gadgets when he's just starting out his life.
I thank you for your concern.

Given up on putting kids on his royal buckiness then

 

[Queenbee]

I think the suggestions about you being unwell are in relation to you being irrational and rude, not the fact that you lunge your horse.

For what it's worth videos show that Ben doesn't really go forward so using a Pessoa that might even give him a tiny bit of a backwards feeling really isn't going to be productive.

Please tell me how on earth I've been unrational... I stated in the other thread that focusing on her riding the horse whilst valid was not the only concern and focusing on it and not diet was counter productive, especially as it only served to scare op away.

You are absolutely correct, Ben was so laid back he was asleep... He is perhaps the laziest horse I've come across on the ground... Something that I am scared about re the in hand shows and only hope the show ground shakes out of him however, he is so much more foreward going now he is working comfortably in his Pessoa... Hey evil things have their place

And for what it's worth, not that you've asked, but I' am not someone who relies on gadgets, before Ben I used a Pessoa twice... With my mare it was pants and I put it to the bottom of the chest, but Ben seems to go incredibly well in it, so why not. It's not as if I am replacing all his ridden work with it.

 

[aimsymc]

Not sure whats with all the nastiness on this thread!!

In answer to your question QB, In my opinion asolutley not to much work. Rising 4yr olds on any competion/dealing/trainig yard will be doing far more!! Think burghley young event horse.

 

[Queenbee]

I think the suggestions about you being unwell are in relation to you being irrational and rude, not the fact that you lunge your horse.

For what it's worth videos show that Ben doesn't really go forward so using a Pessoa that might even give him a tiny bit of a backwards feeling really isn't going to be productive.

.

Oh and for what it's worth... Those videos were from 2012

 

[jhoward]

Given up on putting kids on his royal buckiness then

not atall as he happily works with the teenagers, again QB before attempting to slate my horse, and suggest ut bucks which it never has may i suggest you get a proffessional in to teach your lad to go forwards, possibly even ride it and teach it long and low whilst going forwards, then you wouldn't need to send it in circles strapped down with a contraption that is actually teaching it to evade engagement, go behind the bit, lack impulsion and drag its toes, as all you will achieve in such a young horse is not only resentment of work, but muscels in all the wrong places.

stick to plooding about on lanes and let said horse learn to carry its self...after all we make horses..laid back or just brought on badly ?? Ummm

 

[Mongoose11]

Have you watched your own video?

As for you being IRRational - I was referring to your reactions to fair and gentl advice on this thread re: lunging but while we are at it I do think it is IRRational to assume that every underweight horse has what dear Ebony had!

 

[JFTDWS]

IRRational - I was referring to your reactions to fair and gentl advice on this thread

oooh, Muphry's Law in action, right there

 

[Mongoose11]

JFTD - I know! Just perfect! Cursed the fact I can't be arsed to fire up the laptop to edit! Does making up a word count the same as a typo though?

 

[Queenbee]

QB my comment is more towards bows your reacting and really not ment as a dig but more as a concern and I am truely sorry you felt it was the other way .

But DD... Am I not allowed to be ticked off when to begin with no one answers my question and willfully misinterprets it as a chance to dig at lunging. And then when I get miffed that they have ignored the question in hand, accuse me of being unwell. Is a rational person not allowed to point out that they asked a question which is being/has been ignored?

And I find it offensive that because I'm sensitive on one subject, I'm considered not able to voice a rational opinion on any subject.... Really that's so insulting and I'd never pass such a judgement on another human being.

 

[Mongoose11]

QB - that last bit is just hilair! At least I am fairly self aware. I can be a cow and judgemental and I am often sorry for it.

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD - I know! Just perfect! Cursed the fact I can't be arsed to fire up the laptop to edit! Does making up a word count the same as a typo though?

Nah, yours is inevitable in a fast paced discussion, it did amuse me though

I'm giving up actually trying to explain to QB that posters were not ignoring her question, merely answering it now though

 

[Queenbee]

QB, i Know you and JH have history, but it is comments like this ^^ that i am commenting about. It has made quite uncomfortable reading these last few nights on this and another thread about weightloss. As for your comments on an Anky Pad, i think you over-reacted and to comment on my friends business page is out of order IMHO.

DD... I commented on your thread on your page... Not a business page.

As for her... If she chooses to comment on my thread, as is her right, I have a right to reply...

What the hell is unhinged about that?

 

[charlie76]

What a bizarre thread. For a moment I thought I was in a primary school playground!

 

[morrismob]

Wow !!! I have followed this thread on and off all night and its got a bit daft. Not sure of the history between some of you frankly don't care but all take a deep breath. We all are here for the good of our own horses... surely ?

To try and answer the original question I would like to ask a question, why do you use the pessoa and no I am not against them. I own one and use it on 3 out of my 5 only on the long and low setting for a short space of time. But curious as to why you use it on him ?

I think he is probably backward( haven't seen videos) when using it as it can take some horses a while to figure it out and therefore he could be backward for that reason, others go mad on it till they realise how it works, I've had both types. As to whether its to much for him to do this and then go for a hack later on, no I don't think its too much as long as each session is short and he has time to enjoy both sessions.

Now play nicely otherwise toys will be removed... jokes

 

[Moomin1]

*snort*

Pot. Kettle.

 

[Queenbee]

[]

Not sure whats with all the nastiness on this thread!!

In answer to your question QB, In my opinion asolutley not to much work. Rising 4yr olds on any competion/dealing/trainig yard will be doing far more!! Think burghley young event horse.

Thank you

not atall as he happily works with the teenagers, again QB before attempting to slate my horse, and suggest ut bucks which it never has may i suggest you get a proffessional in to teach your lad to go forwards, possibly even ride it and teach it long and low whilst going forwards, then you wouldn't need to send it in circles strapped down with a contraption that is actually teaching it to evade engagement, go behind the bit, lack impulsion and drag its toes, as all you will achieve in such a young horse is not only resentment of work, but muscels in all the wrong places.

stick to plooding about on lanes and let said horse learn to carry its self...after all we make horses..laid back or just brought on badly ?? Ummm

If I can be arsed I will post a photo of my horse working under saddle tomorrow... Will you... Oop no... He's 'chilling in field'

Have you watched your own video?

As for you being IRRational - I was referring to your reactions to fair and gentl advice on this thread re: lunging but while we are at it I do think it is IRRational to assume that every underweight horse has what dear Ebony had!

Yes I have... He's a plank in reverse... As I said... The girl is not working him or riding him now. I never said or assumed the horse had what ebs had, but malabsorption has a range of causes and I suggested the op discuss that and grass sickness with her vet as obviously something is compromising the ability to absorb or process food! What's wrong with wanting to helps or even support someone, even someone who maybe is unable to execute the same level of care as you... It doesn't mean they do not 'care' for their horse as much, nor does it mean they don't worry as much, finally it does not mean the horse isn't in as much need of help.

 

[magicmoose]

sadly many people decided to willfully misinterpret my question for their own ends.

Quite frankly, this and some of your other comments smack of paranoia. I would imagine that very few posters are anti lunging, they are just opposed to the lunging of an immature horse in an inappropriately fitted gadget.

The majority of posters have given you reasonable answers to your original question and your overly sensitive and pedantic responses are disproportionate to the fact that the answers were more complex than you were hoping for.

 

[Moomin1]

Not sure that I would be taking 'advice' from certain posters on this thread, who seem to swap and change horses, and have issues with each one, resulting in them being sold etc etc..

QB, I think people are being too harsh on you here. Yes, I think that a hack after ten mins in a pessoa is too much for a 4 yr old. I also wouldn't put a 4 yr old of mine in a pessoa. That being said, much much worse goes on, and it's hardly crime of the century.

Get a grip people. 30 mins a week??

 

[Queenbee]

Nah, yours is inevitable in a fast paced discussion, it did amuse me though

I'm giving up actually trying to explain to QB that posters were not ignoring her question, merely answering it now though

Ok, so going with your theory, that's fine... In your opinion you answered it, but for me it was not an answer that informed my specific question.... For me, this is non informative/productive... I find it difficult that you can't at least understand that.

In short it has not really informed my query as to whether a hack is more than he can take On the days he lunges... The question now seems mute, it has by the sound of it become a question of my sanity ( well I was always bat **** crazy) and the fact that my horses legs will break from walking on the lunge. Sad but true

 

[Mongoose11]

Mooms people didn't react violently to the lunging, they reacted violently to the 'maamish' attitude of op!

 

[jhoward]

Not trying to insult your QB, just concerned as you are a friend. *bows out*

JH - dont jump on the band wagon, you are not holier then thou.

tbh dd I think she is just showing her TRUE colours, of course im not perfect never attempted to be, and no I won't be posting pics of my lad as QB well knows I can't ride, and Henry had a tough time and needed time to mature and chill. See i do the best for that horse.

 

[morrismob]

Not sure that I would be taking 'advice' from certain posters on this thread, who seem to swap and change horses, and have issues with each one, resulting in them being sold etc etc..

QB, I think people are being too harsh on you here. Yes, I think that a hack after ten mins in a pessoa is too much for a 4 yr old. I also wouldn't put a 4 yr old of mine in a pessoa. That being said, much much worse goes on, and it's hardly crime of the century.

Get a grip people. 30 mins a week??

Right just to change the direction of this thread a little can I ask why you would not put a pessoa on a 4 yr old for 10 mins at a time on the lowest setting. I have one and use it on this setting ( albeit on older horses) and in no way does it tie them down or perhaps I am doing it wrong. I started it for a mare with KS (??) and it worked wonders on her, I now only lunge using one but I only use it for a short time as don't believe in sending them round in endless circles but find it helps them work long and low under saddle too which done properly is beautiful to watch or should I just go away now ?

 

[jhoward]

Ok, so going with your theory, that's fine... In your opinion you answered it, but for me it was not an answer that informed my specific question.... For me, this is non informative/productive... I find it difficult that you can't at least understand that.

In short it has not really informed my query as to whether a hack is more than he can take On the days he lunges... The question now seems mute, it has by the sound of it become a question of my sanity ( well I was always bat **** crazy) and the fact that my horses legs will break from walking on the lunge. Sad but true

oh fgs QB your not a novice surely you have enough intelligence to answer your own question. Stop twisting genuine peoples replies.

No its not going to kill your cob to work twice in a day it spends what..23 hours a day lounging about if anything the road work will harden his legs up for later life...slowly slowly and all that ... See even I've given u a sensible answer.

 

[Queenbee]

Wow !!! I have followed this thread on and off all night and its got a bit daft. Not sure of the history between some of you frankly don't care but all take a deep breath. We all are here for the good of our own horses... surely ?

To try and answer the original question I would like to ask a question, why do you use the pessoa and no I am not against them. I own one and use it on 3 out of my 5 only on the long and low setting for a short space of time. But curious as to why you use it on him ?

I think he is probably backward( haven't seen videos) when using it as it can take some horses a while to figure it out and therefore he could be backward for that reason, others go mad on it till they realise how it works, I've had both types. As to whether its to much for him to do this and then go for a hack later on, no I don't think its too much as long as each session is short and he has time to enjoy both sessions.

Now play nicely otherwise toys will be removed... jokes

Ok,answers

I use the Pessoa, because I want him to have a few short work outs a week without someone on his back... I believe that working the topline without the added complication of a lump (however light on the back) is a beneficial thing. He does as I've already said, 10 mins on long and low in walk with about two, or three circuits of trot on each rein three times a week.

He is very backward and scatterbrained on the lunge, looking left and right, and when he is lunged in tack or side reins or even just in a cavasson or bridle, he is 'stop starty' in the Pessoa he is now much more fluid, he keeps a forward walk, the only video I have of him in the Pessoa is his second session. But in that you can already see a marked improvement in his walk, he is now forward and more focused. He still looks left and right and sniffs the ground (pretending he is working ) but yes, in the Pessoa his walk is much improved and he reaches forward and down... At no time is he restrained by the Pessoa, it just helps to focus him and motivate him.

 

[Queenbee]

Quite frankly, this and some of your other comments smack of paranoia. I would imagine that very few posters are anti lunging, they are just opposed to the lunging of an immature horse in an inappropriately fitted gadget.

The majority of posters have given you reasonable answers to your original question and your overly sensitive and pedantic responses are disproportionate to the fact that the answers were more complex than you were hoping for.

MM... If you could please point out how it is inappropriately fitted please let me know...I mean that with all sincerity. As far as I am aware and have been taught, it is fitted well and sympathetically.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I use the Pessoa, because I want him to have a few short work outs a week without someone on his back... I believe that working the topline without the added complication of a lump (however light on the back) is a beneficial thing. He does as I've already said, 10 mins on long and low in walk with about two, or three circuits of trot on each rein three times a week.

This comes under my definition of sparing.

I'm not against lunging, but I have seen some idiots really lunge their horses into the ground on a regular basis.

I never thought that you were in that group BTW QB.

 

[morrismob]

QB, as I said earlier I like the pessoa and in the right setting does horses a lot of good. It doesn't sound to me if you overdoing it all and 10 mins is about right. I am a crap rider but spend a lot of time with my horses ( daughters compete) on the ground and hate side reins with a passion.

I have a 2 year old tbxwb that I bred myself ( his birthday is June when he will be 3 ) He will spend some time on the pessoa when he has been broken ( what a horrible term) and has ridden away. It will be one of my many tools to give him a varied life under my watchful eye.