An Experiment in the Use of Constructive Criticism

[Baydale]

I must be feeling particularly robust at the moment as I have decided to offer myself up to the forum lions. Some may have noticed that I haven't posted reports for quite a while, for many reasons (time, inclination, bad vibes on here, fragile ego etc) but mainly because I think I've been riding like a bag of **** therefore didn't want to expose myself to too much flak in what's been a challenging year for me.

However, I'm interested to know what people think of mine and Jupiter's performance at our last event. Please don't hold back, as I said, I'm feeling particularly robust today and would just like to see things from the other side of the fence.

All the info you need is that he's a 6yo doing his first season of Novice BE. Fill yer boots, as they say:

Dressage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eet2ASGpmx0

Showjumping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcubMR2QG5g

Cross country:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-1M-eMO0dA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pGiYY7K-u4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4S2d6xlIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vga9LybcLvU

Please please please be critical. It's not that I want a free lesson as I do get plenty of training, so cut the cr@p and niceness and just get to the critique please.

 

[siennamum]

When you jump the double of rolltops on a sharp left hand turn, he goes left and for a minute you looked like you were left behind, he definitely turned faster than you did. I am disgusted. Keep up with your horse.












(not really, looks really fab)

 

[AmyMay]

Not going to CC (not technically equiped to do so).

But just wanted to say that I think you're an inspiration to us all

 

[KatB]

Moooooorrrreeeee dead sheep needed

 

[Baydale]

Not going to CC (not technically equiped to do so).

But just wanted to say that I think you're an inspiration to us all

C'mon amymay, pretend you don't know anything about that and gimme some cc please - I'm not being ungrateful for your kind words, just want some serious cc.

 

[stencilface]

Not qualified to comment on dressage (well, not qualified to comment on anything really, but am definitely least qualified to comment on dressage )

I was going to say the SJ was great, as you didn't have a stop, or knock anything (which is essentially the name of the game in SJ - nothing else matters) but then you knocked a fence! Prob just an unlucky pole though

Like the green on the xc

Sorry, not sure if you will get anything constructive - certainly not off me!

 

[PaddyMonty]

Is this the same horse you competed at keysoe BE in september (I think)?
Only ask as I watched the round there.

 

[Caledonia]

He's opinionated, and wants to run through the bridle onto his head so he can take charge and go faster on his terms. You've kept a lid on him, and disguised his slightly wilful mindset very well!
He's at that stage where he's almost there in terms of your being able to trust him to keep the shape and not fall off the paces if you relax for a second.

He's a novice, he's full of his own importance, but that's a lovely well-ridden test.
Haven't looked at the SJ/XC yet.

 

[Baydale]

Moooooorrrreeeee dead sheep needed

Is the ewe on his nose not enough?

Same to you as amymay, I want some cc please, tell me what you see.

 

[Caledonia]

SJ - same issues - thinks he knows best. The rail fell cos he drifted round the corner a bit on his forehand. Is he strong?

He jumps the left hand side of the fence every time - is that you or him?

Still a lovely young horse being well ridden!

ETA - XC

Now he's happy, he's travelling at the speed he likes, and he enjoys the challenge of what's next. He's more focussed as well on what you want him to do, principally because you both want to do the same speed here.

Serious horse - nothing about him should stop you going up the levels.

 

[Baydale]

Not qualified to comment on dressage (well, not qualified to comment on anything really, but am definitely least qualified to comment on dressage )

I was going to say the SJ was great, as you didn't have a stop, or knock anything (which is essentially the name of the game in SJ - nothing else matters) but then you knocked a fence! Prob just an unlucky pole though

Like the green on the xc

Sorry, not sure if you will get anything constructive - certainly not off me!

Thanks Stencilface, but if you look hard at the fence I had down I lost my canter through the corner and decided a deep one was better than a flyer, which it wasn't. Not unlucky at all , probably my loss of concentration.

 

[AmyMay]

C'mon amymay, pretend you don't know anything about that and gimme some cc please - I'm not being ungrateful for your kind words, just want some serious cc.

Okey dokey

I think you did a brilliant job getting him through the water. He lost a leg a stride in and got too close to the jump out - but he did jump out quite well. Another horse might have fudged it completely - just stopped.

It appears to me that you may ride him a bit defensively, but at 6 I guess he's learning the ropes, and you can't take anything for granted over a fence.

That's all

 

[ester]

you need a better video camera

 

[AmyMay]

you need a better video camera

Operator and tripod!

 

[Baydale]

Is this the same horse you competed at keysoe BE in september (I think)?
Only ask as I watched the round there.

Yes, I did the Novice there on him. This round, where I let him run on and flatten to the smallest fence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO1-5crrw1E

 

[SpottedCat]

I think you've misunderstood the rules of HHO.

1. If you post a picture/video and ask for CC, you won't get much/any, but people will tell you how great you are.

2. If you post pictures/vids and don't ask for CC, someone will feel compelled to give you some 'helpful' advice.

3. Once one person has made a 'constructive' comment, other will feel compelled to do the same, agreeing with the first person, even if they themselves couldn't ride a rocking horse.

4. If you have a bit of a clue about riding, and perhaps have a good background at a high level (by which I'm talking Advanced eventing+, 1.40+ or PSG), you probably won't reveal your identity and therefore your comments, whilst accurate, will probably be completely dismissed by the majority since you haven't posted any pictures of yourself on a horse (mainly because you did these things back in the mists of time when the rest of us were not even a twinkle in the milkman's eye ).

5. Reports of competitions seem to be less prone to attracting 'helpful' comments than pictures of schooling sessions - no-one yet knows why this is.

6. If there is a high profile, high level event on, rest assured the members of HHO can ride the horses better, make better decisions and generally do a much better job than the pros who are there themselves. The only reason they are riding the sofa not the horse is to give WFP, Edward Gal and William Funnell a chance, it's only fair. They will vocally tell the world exactly what each rider did wrong though, especially if it's Oli Townend, or a young rider on an older schoolmaster horse.

7. If someone does make an observation which is not intended to be CC, but is a genuine query about a method/approach to training, the 'fans' of the OP will immediately assume it is based on a complete lack of knowledge about anything to do with horses, and is entirely to do with jealousy, and the OP is liable to become extremely defensive because the fans have twisted an innocuous comment and discovered nuances even an English teacher would struggle to find. These situations are easily diffused by the OP saying 'you could be right but my trainer and I are keeping an eye on it', but this rarely happens.

8. The truly bad, mad and dangerous vids/pics rarely get anything constructive because the only people who comment are those whose horses are the same, the rest of us are just too gobsmacked that the instructor they use is still making a living.

9. It has become obligatory to end any post with 'not aimed at anyone in particular' or words to that effect. This is the exact same principle used by people who want to say something really horrible and think that prefixing it with 'I don't mean to be rude but....' These people like to phone radio talk shows too, and can often be heard uttering the words 'I'm not racist but....'. They often sound completely rational to start with, but this facade is soon exposed.

10. This is a joke, right?

ETA: Please note the 'probably' in point 4, as I am aware there are a number of people who have done those things and don't mind telling us who they are - but there are quite a few who keep their identity quiet!

 

[Mince Pie]

Agree with Caledonia RE Jup trying to take charge a bit, also when you came across the diagonal for the first lot of medium trot steps, the corner between A and F looks like it could have been set up a little better.

 

[PaddyMonty]

Can I really be honest and not be burnt at the stake?

 

[Saratoga]

Dressage test was good. Trot work lovely, nice and forward with cadence. Canter work a little tense at times with contact varying, possibly due to not quite having the strength and balance yet on grass. Walk could be bigger and more relaxed, but correct.

SJ was again a nice round, video a little hard to see but I think you do what I do - help the horse off the floor a little too much, causing the horse to have a moment of inverting. He looks like he covers a lot of ground, and would get a little unruly if you let him Nice rhythm.

1st XC vid looked a bit quick to me, and he looks a little gawpy at the water. But nice positive attitude from both of you.

 

[Baydale]

He's opinionated, and wants to run through the bridle onto his head so he can take charge and go faster on his terms. You've kept a lid on him, and disguised his slightly wilful mindset very well!
He's at that stage where he's almost there in terms of your being able to trust him to keep the shape and not fall off the paces if you relax for a second.

He's a novice, he's full of his own importance, but that's a lovely well-ridden test.
Haven't looked at the SJ/XC yet.

Good stuff, Caledonia, and thank you. So why does he run through the bridle do you think? Lack of balance, is that suppleness and engagement or conformation?

And yes, he is cocky and wilful. you've got to love a bit of Cleveland Bay in a horse.

 

[Ali16]

I think you've misunderstood the rules of HHO.

1. If you post a picture/video and ask for CC, you won't get much/any, but people will tell you how great you are.

2. If you post pictures/vids and don't ask for CC, someone will feel compelled to give you some 'helpful' advice.

3. Once one person has made a 'constructive' comment, other will feel compelled to do the same, agreeing with the first person, even if they themselves couldn't ride a rocking horse.

4. If you have a bit of a clue about riding, and perhaps have a good background at a high level (by which I'm talking Advanced eventing+, 1.40+ or PSG), you probably won't reveal your identity and therefore your comments, whilst accurate, will probably be completely dismissed by the majority since you haven't posted any pictures of yourself on a horse (mainly because you did these things back in the mists of time when the rest of us were not even a twinkle in the milkman's eye ).

5. Reports of competitions seem to be less prone to attracting 'helpful' comments than pictures of schooling sessions - no-one yet knows why this is.

6. If there is a high profile, high level event on, rest assured the members of HHO can ride the horses better, make better decisions and generally do a much better job than the pros who are there themselves. The only reason they are riding the sofa not the horse is to give WFP, Edward Gal and William Funnell a chance, it's only fair. They will vocally tell the world exactly what each rider did wrong though, especially if it's Oli Townend, or a young rider on an older schoolmaster horse.

7. If someone does make an observation which is not intended to be CC, but is a genuine query about a method/approach to training, the 'fans' of the OP will immediately assume it is based on a complete lack of knowledge about anything to do with horses, and is entirely to do with jealousy, and the OP is liable to become extremely defensive because the fans have twisted an innocuous comment and discovered nuances even an English teacher would struggle to find. These situations are easily diffused by the OP saying 'you could be right but my trainer and I are keeping an eye on it', but this rarely happens.

8. The truly bad, mad and dangerous vids/pics rarely get anything constructive because the only people who comment are those whose horses are the same, the rest of us are just too gobsmacked that the instructor they use is still making a living.

9. It has become obligatory to end any post with 'not aimed at anyone in particular' or words to that effect. This is the exact same principle used by people who want to say something really horrible and think that prefixing it with 'I don't mean to be rude but....' These people like to phone radio talk shows too, and can often be heard uttering the words 'I'm not racist but....'. They often sound completely rational to start with, but this facade is soon exposed.

10. This is a joke, right?

ETA: Please note the 'probably' in point 4, as I am aware there are a number of people who have done those things and don't mind telling us who they are - but there are quite a few who keep their identity quiet!

^^^ Tooooo true. Made me laugh! Not been a member for very long but I can already see this is fact!

(NOT aimed at anyone in particular)

 

[tigers_eye]

*high fives SpottedCat*

 

[siennamum]

I think you've misunderstood the rules of HHO.

1. If you post a picture/video and ask for CC, you won't get much/any, but people will tell you how great you are.

2. If you post pictures/vids and don't ask for CC, someone will feel compelled to give you some 'helpful' advice.

3. Once one person has made a 'constructive' comment, other will feel compelled to do the same, agreeing with the first person, even if they themselves couldn't ride a rocking horse.

4. If you have a bit of a clue about riding, and perhaps have a good background at a high level (by which I'm talking Advanced eventing+, 1.40+ or PSG), you probably won't reveal your identity and therefore your comments, whilst accurate, will probably be completely dismissed by the majority since you haven't posted any pictures of yourself on a horse (mainly because you did these things back in the mists of time when the rest of us were not even a twinkle in the milkman's eye ).

5. Reports of competitions seem to be less prone to attracting 'helpful' comments than pictures of schooling sessions - no-one yet knows why this is.

6. If there is a high profile, high level event on, rest assured the members of HHO can ride the horses better, make better decisions and generally do a much better job than the pros who are there themselves. The only reason they are riding the sofa not the horse is to give WFP, Edward Gal and William Funnell a chance, it's only fair. They will vocally tell the world exactly what each rider did wrong though, especially if it's Oli Townend, or a young rider on an older schoolmaster horse.

7. If someone does make an observation which is not intended to be CC, but is a genuine query about a method/approach to training, the 'fans' of the OP will immediately assume it is based on a complete lack of knowledge about anything to do with horses, and is entirely to do with jealousy, and the OP is liable to become extremely defensive because the fans have twisted an innocuous comment and discovered nuances even an English teacher would struggle to find. These situations are easily diffused by the OP saying 'you could be right but my trainer and I are keeping an eye on it', but this rarely happens.

8. The truly bad, mad and dangerous vids/pics rarely get anything constructive because the only people who comment are those whose horses are the same, the rest of us are just too gobsmacked that the instructor they use is still making a living.

9. It has become obligatory to end any post with 'not aimed at anyone in particular' or words to that effect. This is the exact same principle used by people who want to say something really horrible and think that prefixing it with 'I don't mean to be rude but....' These people like to phone radio talk shows too, and can often be heard uttering the words 'I'm not racist but....'. They often sound completely rational to start with, but this facade is soon exposed.

10. This is a joke, right?

ETA: Please note the 'probably' in point 4, as I am aware there are a number of people who have done those things and don't mind telling us who they are - but there are quite a few who keep their identity quiet!

Brilliant.

 

[dressagecrazy]

I can only comment on the dressage as im to much of an old wuss now to jump. However i did used to event in my youth & enjoyed it, age & fear got the better of me after a nasty fall. I dont think it's fair to comment though on something i dont do, so i wont & wouldnt.

I thought the dressage was good, nice rythm & balance. Possibly a little wobbly to the contact at times, but tbh thats to be expected when doing dressage in an open field with horses zooming around everywhere & the thought of XC in a horses head.

The only other thing was me personally i would of tried to balance & bring him back slightly more in the corners before the medium trot's. But they certainly wernt bad at all. I hope ive been constuctive & passed the challenge of making a tit out of myself lol.

Lovely horse & lovely riding, but you already know that. Hope your well.

 

[stencilface]

Sorry baydale, but camera not the best, and trying to sneakily watch it at work does not make for v good accurate CC - I'll be quiet now

 

[kirstykate]

I think you've misunderstood the rules of HHO.

1. If you post a picture/video and ask for CC, you won't get much/any, but people will tell you how great you are.

2. If you post pictures/vids and don't ask for CC, someone will feel compelled to give you some 'helpful' advice.

3. Once one person has made a 'constructive' comment, other will feel compelled to do the same, agreeing with the first person, even if they themselves couldn't ride a rocking horse.

4. If you have a bit of a clue about riding, and perhaps have a good background at a high level (by which I'm talking Advanced eventing+, 1.40+ or PSG), you probably won't reveal your identity and therefore your comments, whilst accurate, will probably be completely dismissed by the majority since you haven't posted any pictures of yourself on a horse (mainly because you did these things back in the mists of time when the rest of us were not even a twinkle in the milkman's eye ).

5. Reports of competitions seem to be less prone to attracting 'helpful' comments than pictures of schooling sessions - no-one yet knows why this is.

6. If there is a high profile, high level event on, rest assured the members of HHO can ride the horses better, make better decisions and generally do a much better job than the pros who are there themselves. The only reason they are riding the sofa not the horse is to give WFP, Edward Gal and William Funnell a chance, it's only fair. They will vocally tell the world exactly what each rider did wrong though, especially if it's Oli Townend, or a young rider on an older schoolmaster horse.

7. If someone does make an observation which is not intended to be CC, but is a genuine query about a method/approach to training, the 'fans' of the OP will immediately assume it is based on a complete lack of knowledge about anything to do with horses, and is entirely to do with jealousy, and the OP is liable to become extremely defensive because the fans have twisted an innocuous comment and discovered nuances even an English teacher would struggle to find. These situations are easily diffused by the OP saying 'you could be right but my trainer and I are keeping an eye on it', but this rarely happens.

8. The truly bad, mad and dangerous vids/pics rarely get anything constructive because the only people who comment are those whose horses are the same, the rest of us are just too gobsmacked that the instructor they use is still making a living.

9. It has become obligatory to end any post with 'not aimed at anyone in particular' or words to that effect. This is the exact same principle used by people who want to say something really horrible and think that prefixing it with 'I don't mean to be rude but....' These people like to phone radio talk shows too, and can often be heard uttering the words 'I'm not racist but....'. They often sound completely rational to start with, but this facade is soon exposed.

10. This is a joke, right?

ETA: Please note the 'probably' in point 4, as I am aware there are a number of people who have done those things and don't mind telling us who they are - but there are quite a few who keep their identity quiet!

How could you But oh so true

 

[Baydale]

SJ - same issues - thinks he knows best. The rail fell cos he drifted round the corner a bit on his forehand. Is he strong?

He jumps the left hand side of the fence every time - is that you or him?

Still a lovely young horse being well ridden!

ETA - XC

Now he's happy, he's travelling at the speed he likes, and he enjoys the challenge of what's next. He's more focussed as well on what you want him to do, principally because you both want to do the same speed here.

Serious horse - nothing about him should stop you going up the levels.

Hank the Tank is a bit strong, yes, but more in a heavy and on-the-forehand way than ripping the reins out of my hands way. Re the sj, he's also a bit solid laterally; I'm more used to lanky rubbery horses so am having to learn what to do with short solid horses that need softening. The jumping left had got worse and I'm working on his flatwork to sort this as I don't think A frames on fences etc would solve it long-term; he had been treated by the osteopath the week before this event and again the week after. I can't comment on how he's jumped since then as I can't jump at the moment, but he is much better on the flat.

Thank you for your last comment, I hope you're right and I shall endeavour to enjoy the journey.

 

[Caledonia]

Good stuff, Caledonia, and thank you. So why does he run through the bridle do you think? Lack of balance, is that suppleness and engagement or conformation?

And yes, he is cocky and wilful. you've got to love a bit of Cleveland Bay in a horse.

It's hard to say why he does that from the video, so I won't try. I'd watch him in the arena to see how he reacts to certain exercises, find what he struggles with and the answer would be there.

What I will say is with the horses I've experienced that do it, although they moved beautifully, it was a conformation issue at root. So suppleness and engagement are paramount to create the uphill movement, but harder to achieve. What I found was that I could get some hairy marks if they were green, but once these horses were more established, the marks were very good because the horses were secure and correct, and I wasn't relying on natural shape and movement to gain marks.
Does that make any sense?? I know what I mean......

If you were riding less well, and a less experienced rider who was having some similar issues, I'd also suggest a check in the mouth, as problems there are guaranteed to make punchy horses try and run through the bridle.

And I'll bypass on the CB vote, thanks

 

[Baydale]

Can I really be honest and not be burnt at the stake?

I asked for cc, so yes, you can be honest and not be burnt at the stake.

 

[PaddyMonty]

I asked for cc, so yes, you can be honest and not be burnt at the stake.

Actually, just realised I'm not that brave so will PM you. Up to you then if you want to put it on open forum.