An Experiment in the Use of Constructive Criticism

[Baydale]

On my phone so can't quote, but...

'I was hoping we could get some joy back into the CR by exposing myself...'

Best line in the CR ever!

I don't CC on here and not going to start now, but Jup and Mally are sooooo alike in more than just looks! I really must get you to shout at me at some point if you have a spare moment!

You knew what I meant, baring my soul not baring my butt, and whilst I'm definitely up for a bit of cyber butt-kicking everyone seems to be being terribly polite. Am I really that scary? Ah, you don't know, do you, as you've never met me? Feel free to bring Mally over to meet her twin.

 

[Vetwrap]

That's very sad, PooJay, I was hoping we could get some joy back into CR by exposing myself but maybe it's too late to rescue it from livery-yard-dom. A sad state of affairs if that is the case.

Can't see the vids at work and as I am not anywhere near knowledgeable enough to give CC, I probably won't... but threads like this are really useful to those of us who ARE trying to learn what to look for and work on. I know already that my youngster is very one sided, something that I will have to work on with him. Then, maybe, if I am brave enough, next year, I might put up something myself for some CC on.

We'll see....

CC is very important and can be very educational for anyone who views it in that light.

 

[PaddyMonty]

everyone seems to be being terribly polite. Am I really that scary?

I wasn't and yes

 

[kirstykate]

You knew what I meant, baring my soul not baring my butt, and whilst I'm definitely up for a bit of cyber butt-kicking everyone seems to be being terribly polite. Am I really that scary? Ah, you don't know, do you, as you've never met me? Feel free to bring Mally over to meet her twin.

Maybe they will come out when its dark

 

[SpottedCat]

You knew what I meant, baring my soul not baring my butt, and whilst I'm definitely up for a bit of cyber butt-kicking everyone seems to be being terribly polite. Am I really that scary? Ah, you don't know, do you, as you've never met me? Feel free to bring Mally over to meet her twin.

See point one of my post What you needed to do was put something up and not ask for CC. Then you'd have got it in spades

 

[Baydale]

OK as you asked for it!!!

These comments are ONLY based on my opinion and experience and reflect my own issues as after all that is what is top of my awareness!

Dressage - I am NOT a dressage Diva so not qualified to comment. Was a nice test and I would have been happy with that, if any cc, he looks a little "contained" at times but then based on the previous comments perhaps he has to be.

Showjumping - A couple of times (1 to 2 I think) and to the one you had down I feel you lacked a bit of power on the corner and then had to make it up or hold once you were on your line. But other than that a nice round.

XC - I thought you were nice and positive to the double on the turn, water was good and yes you were deep but you gave him the time to get his legs up and work it out - The rest were harder to tell. It looks like you were having fun and he looked confident.

All in all I would think it was a good day out at novice on a 6 year old and your result (I have been and looked!) reflected that! I only hope I can do half as well on my 6year old next year.

Runs and hides for cover and PLEASE disagree with me this is only my personal opinion and would not have been given if not asked for and if most other posters were not "playing"

Thanks, hm12, all relevant and valid points:

Dressage - you're right, containment is essential as I haven't got him soft enough to be able to move him sideways when he's about to duck and dive about. The judge seemed to like it so I did a good job of pretending it was all fine and dandy but I know I need to make massive improvements before next season.

SJ - yep, I lose power at times, I may try him in the jointed version of the Happy Mouth pelham as he can feel a bit solid in the straight bar, and he does rather use his neck as a weapon. Again, this should improve with his flatwork improving....says she, optimistically.

XC - I was in limbo with my riding somewhere between daring him and looking after him, easily done, I think, when you've had them since they were babies and forget to move on from the previous level of competence.

Hey, I asked for cc so have no problem with you giving it. I repeat: I'm robust enough currently to want/need/take it and grateful to all the HHOers who have given measured and thoughtful responses.

 

[Baydale]

I've only watched the dressage...very nice test for a 6 year old, and of course you are a very nice and well balanced rider.

2 small points for you to consider:

With the medium trot I'd have wrapped him round my inside leg a bit more as you turned onto the diagonal, so that once straight you had the power there ready to push him on.. i.e. you make the most of having him step under on the turn. Atm it looks like you turned, got him straight, and then said "go" as three separate things... hope you can see what I'm getting at here - it's not easy to explain in words!

As other people have said he could be a bit more balanced and through in the canter, but for a 6 year old on grass and in a competition environment it's pretty good ;0)

Thanks, Polotash, I know what you mean and I think part of what you see is my obsession with straightness, possibly after years of lanky, rubbery horses, whereas with this one my major problem is lateral softness and suppleness. It's a very good example of where his way of going is what needs the work, not the movements and tricks.

 

[claire_p2001]

I am only going to mention the SJ and say what I see

I thought it was a lovely smooth round and much improved from previous videos when i watched it i felt confident you were going to clear the fences. Previously it sometimes looked a bit 'hairy' you have def got him under control more and he is not firing so much at the fences. The only time the rhythm was lost was on the way to the oxer which you had down as you already said the canter got too slow and you ended up too deep. I think this may have started at the previous fence it looks to me like you didn't regain control soon enough after that fence. If you watch it back you only begin to regain the canter and ask for the flying change when you are almost at the corner then when you turn you lose the shoulder and then the canter. I would have probably done the same thing as you waited for the short one In hindsight you should have moved up round the corner and taken one less but what is to say he wouldn't have been careless on that stride as well? I'm am currently being told over and over to move the canter up round the corner and then wait for the fence when i am straight on the bigger canter. So to sum up try to regain the canter sooner after the fence Easier said than done.

Thanks for posting again we miss your updates.

 

[Baydale]

It's hard to say why he does that from the video, so I won't try. I'd watch him in the arena to see how he reacts to certain exercises, find what he struggles with and the answer would be there.

What I will say is with the horses I've experienced that do it, although they moved beautifully, it was a conformation issue at root. So suppleness and engagement are paramount to create the uphill movement, but harder to achieve. What I found was that I could get some hairy marks if they were green, but once these horses were more established, the marks were very good because the horses were secure and correct, and I wasn't relying on natural shape and movement to gain marks.
Does that make any sense?? I know what I mean......

If you were riding less well, and a less experienced rider who was having some similar issues, I'd also suggest a check in the mouth, as problems there are guaranteed to make punchy horses try and run through the bridle.

And I'll bypass on the CB vote, thanks

Not a CB fan, eh, Caledonia?

I do know what you mean, exactly, as having ridden my HumungaHorse - if you remember him - this last week it has demonstrated the difference between the two types that you describe above. Is it wrong to say that I love love love riding HH because of his natural elasticity and softness, to the point that I was thinking of wrestling him back from my OH after hunting to do some in the summer?

I'm fairly sure he has no mouth issues, other than a tiny bit on the left bar (not surprisingly) that I treat with Anusol when it gets pink, but will double check his teeth.

 

[Saratoga]

I'm fairly sure he has no mouth issues, other than a tiny bit on the left bar (not surprisingly) that I treat with Anusol when it gets pink, but will double check his teeth.

Not heard of Anusol before?

 

[PaddyMonty]

Not heard of Anusol before?

Bum cream

 

[Baydale]

Not sure If I am "allowed" to join the thread as I have no CC , just wanted to say I have really missed your reports so please do keep us informed of your exploits!

Awww, thanks, Hornby, I may well do a little update as there have been lots of things going on, good and bad.

 

[Baydale]

The odd thing about the jumping left is that as far as I can see on the vid he is straight over the fence. He seems to arrive at the fence on the lhs from a couple of strides out. But - he didn't do it XC on the straight fence going away from the camera.

Does he favour one lead more strongly than the other?

Or is it a security thing, the way some horses hug a wall, he's hugging the wing? (That last comment could be utter moronic nonsense, btw, it was a fleeting thought than ran through my head! )

Not saying this will help yours, but I had a huge Westphalian horse like this - he was really difficult to wagon. I had to warm up with loads of canter half pass before I could jump him (People thought I was being flash at SJ, but I wasn't!), and I did tons of walk canter and canter squares work to keep him sitting and rideable.

I know I'm weaker on my left-hand side, and have therefore made it his lesser rein no doubt. I haven't noticed him favouring one lead when we're jumping but then he's v nifty at changes so will do them as and when. I like the idea of canter squares to keep him sitting, I have done these before but more thinking about bringing the shoulder around on the way to a fence, not so much to make him sit. All useful stuff, so thanks for that.

Ps. If you met this horse you would not think of him being insecure ever, I think the left shoulder coming out is more a tension problem, made worse by his spookyness. I seem to remember us taking the whole of the last fence down with my left foot earlier this season, how embarrassing, and that was one of the most spazzy, spooky rounds he's ever done.

 

[Baydale]

Nail/ Hit/ Head

More improtantly Baydale, where did you get your riding boots from???

What, these old things? *points at feet* Our local farm supplies shop ordered them for me from Brogini but they are De Niro - beeyootiful and so soft.

 

[horseywelsh]

Not watched the vids as short of time today so no CC from me BUT reason for posting is I too have missed your reports, especially your SJ lesson with LD reports ... used to find these very inetersteing and picked up some useful tips/exercises.

 

[Baydale]

LOL - I meant my response was a joke, not your thread!

ETA: After my exploits last weekend, I'm not CCing anyone!

Dur, I am so stoopid.

You did bl00dy well last weekend, even if you now know you need a bigger bit.

 

[Saratoga]

Bum cream

What's it used for? (other than sore bums obviously......)

 

[Caledonia]

I seem to remember us taking the whole of the last fence down with my left foot earlier this season, how embarrassing, and that was one of the most spazzy, spooky rounds he's ever done.

I did that too, in the SJ arena at Houghall while the prizegiving for another class was going on about 10 yards away. It was a multi-poled beast of an oxer out of a double I'd muppet-fashion dropped my reins at going in. I feel your pain!

 

[alwaysbroke]

Having tried to film D_K going xc this year sympathies to your OH, its not an easy job holding a small camera

No CC on about your riding from me, you do a far better job than I would ever hope to achieve, but I do think you can be a little hard on yourself, you haven't had the easiest of years and you are still out there 'doing it', that in its self is a huge achievement

Must say I have missed your reports as well.

Ah and Spotted Cat 'spot on' with your post

 

[Baydale]

Crikey, I'm feeling brave at the moment I think or maybe I'm ill... I'll stick my neck out, cos after watching the videos and the Keysoe SJ round I've noticed something that you probably are aware of, but if not, it might be worth investigating/working on.
That's the disclaimer over
1. Dressage - I wouldn't have a clue
2. XC - see point 1, but as you are here to post and I assume the horse still has all its legs, you must be doing something right, no?
3. SJ - IMO, he needs to be more through and go a bit more forward, it's just lacking flow a bit. He also consistently jumps to the left, a lot. I also noticed in your dressage test that your first counter canter was a bit, ahem, agricultural As in, you had to work VERY hard to keep him balanced and going. I think the 2 things are connected.

I am certainly not going to advise anything, I'm sure you have trainers for that.

Why brave? Everyone seems to find it scary when they're asked to cc me, perhaps that's an interesting reflection on how some posters are perceived by others on the forum more than anything. I get this reaction because people have been well brought up to be polite towards their elders.

Back to the point:

1. Dressage is flatwork, and I'm sure you know something about that.

2. XC - yep, he had all his legs and no splinters in them when we finished. He got extra polos for having made new marks on his stud guard.

3. SJ - agree about the flow, absolutely, more forward will make it easier but what I find is if I send him forward when he's tight and spooky he just gets more tight and spooky and he'll have fences that way. Spot on about the counter canter being agricultural as you only have to twitch and he'll change, and obviously changes are way easier than counter canter. So yes, they're inter-linked and it's all about the flatwork. More about my Message from God in that regard later...

 

[Baydale]

absolutely, doing it badly just means he needs more practice

I would like to add that I have missed your reports of the bay bunch over this summer too .

I'll tell him that but I imagine his response will be something and "off"!

Thank you, I've just been a bit wrapped up in other stuff and didn't want to do a pitiful poor me post when I was feeling down about things - that's really not my style.

 

[Baydale]

A little off thread but, your words "casual attitude" got my attention.

My mare is very casual over a fence once it has been jumped once or twice, jumps but taps them. She is only 5 and we have stuck them up to 1.10m a few times to make her pay attention which works but I don't want to jump big all the while - any tips??

Angles, short turns back to fences, anything to make her think quicker. I like to do a zig zag of fences down the centre line so I can do a few in quick succession.

 

[KatB]

Ok, not CC as such, more observations

I haven't had time to look at the XC or dressage vids properly, although my overall view was nothing much to "observe" anyway Will have a proper sit down at some stage to have a look at the dressage, but know you are MORE than capable of self analysing it anyway!

In the Sjing, he looks a lot more secure in the rhythm than I've seen before, and it looks great. I do think you could be a bit braver in riding him forward the last couple of strides, instead of sitting and holding. The further around he gets, the more inverted he gets in his jump, which I think is due to him getting on his head a bit, and so having to make more effort to get his legs out the way. This shows because the first 3 fences he looks really fab, and the latter half he looks a bit more green 6yr old

I would want to try sitting him up and flexing him through the neck on the corners a bit to re-engage and rebalance, to hopefully get the strides softer, and allow him to flow forward a bit to the fence, and to let him take responsibilty of jumping the fence in a balanced way. Madam is similar, and I have really had to learn to be disciplined in making sure we get softness and control around the corner, so I can contain the good canter I've recreated all the way to the fence without changing anything much, but keeping her taking me forward between hand and leg. Almost moving her away from my leg in a leg yieldy way around the corner helps keep her soft, and making sure I ride a definite turn but keep riding forwards without going fast!. In regards to the jump itself, pulling the ground rail out on an upright can make them rounder over the fence too.

Anyway, this is all like teaching a granny to suck eggs hope you are well at the moment. x

 

[VRIN]

Not CC but you remarked about your horse being a bit 'casual' over the smaller jumps...

Have you seen the Clayton Fredericks series on the Horse and Country channel - specifically the one about warming a horse up for the SJ phase?

Well worth a look if you haven't but he has two horses one a bit laid back (maybe 'casual') the other quite sharp.

Anyway when he warms his 'laid back' chap up, he brings him in quite slow and gets deep so that the horse has to 'pick his feet up' and make a bit of an effort... haven't really explained it well but seriously take a look if you haven't already...

Tried his ideas with my laid back - in fact almost horizontal - horse at weekend and it certainly seemed to help.

 

[Baydale]

Firstly - I'd just like to say I'm glad to hear you are still out and about doing stuff. I was worried the silence meant that the horses/chemo/other had finally beaten you! Good to know your still alive and kicking

OK CC ...errrrm... he appears to jump/bulge left in the SJing, seems most noticable down the triple and the one he had down.

DR - after the tests I pencilled for at the weekend - is bloody brilliant! Sorry you wanted CC erm swished his tail too much?

XC - he doesn't seem to be bulging left when he jumps XC except coming into the water where, as mentioned, he seems a little hesitant but comes out confidently. is the vids are in course order you can see that once he gets over his initial enthusiaum he settles down and listens to you far more and the patnership looks really good!
Oh bugger criticism criticism mmm in keeping with the spirit of the forum at the moment lets see he looks tense, unhappy, and is being pushed to fast

Thanks, Felicity. See above for the bulging shoulder issue, it's the major thing I have to work on with him. He's swishing his tail because he's lazy but do you remember how HH used to swish his when he was having fun, so no family similarity there it seems.

I didn't post the vid where he took a stride out at the fence two before the water. Bless him, he loves his cross country.

 

[SpottedCat]

Dunno if I'm seeing things because the quality of the vids isn't perfect, but in the dressage, especially in the counter canter, you look as though you perhaps collapse right slightly through your hip? If you do, which would tie in with a weaker left leg that I think you mentioned, then if you're inclined to do it jumping too, it might explain why he bulges out through the left shoulder SJing and loses the straightness on the last couple of strides? A good exercise I got taught for this was to take away the opposite stirrup from the side you collapse on.

 

[Baydale]

Well I'm not qualified to give constructive critism sooooooo.........

Mine are......

wobbly camera.... cameraman needs more practise or a tripod
is it me, but do the dressage arenas look the wrong shape
it has been too long since your last report (and yes I know you have a good excuse)

Ok.... that is all I can think of...... still enjoyed the video's though as usual

Anybody who thinks they can see something should say so if it's been requested, although it could be more along the lines of "do you think perhaps you were riding like an ar$e at that point?" rather than "you rode like an ar$e, what on earth did you think you were doing?" as that may cause offence.

Cameraman will be humoured for having been so good to do studs, camerawork AND walk the horse off.

Dressage arenas need to be longer and wider, I think, with curved corners and a chute to channel you onto the centre line correctly.

Glad you enjoyed the vids.

 

[Baydale]

they do? try telling that to my big round (very round) brown beast who most definitely thinks otherwise atm!

I would comment if i was qualified to comment, but i'm not. I did my very first (and only) practice ode this year....all 1ft 6 of it and came 4th. I am proud of it as there was more than 10 in the class and it was our first "event" together .....however, proud as i am i don't feel it appropriate to comment on eventers who do as you do, jump higher than 2ft6, manage to persuade their pretty ponies that water is safe, fun and no monsters live in there and actually get to these events.....

I can't give cc - all i know about eventing is that it's WELL scary and you lot are WELL brave

If you've got a big, round, brown horse then you can't be all bad, PooJay.

Anyway, we all have to start somewhere so keep on keepin' on and before you know it you'll be out BEing with the rest of us.

 

[Baydale]

Alright alright, but I'm going out now, will do later! Actually I don't even need to look at the videos, Jupiter would definitely go better with me, you need to send him post-haste!

I have no doubt he would, hence why I want cc.

 

[Baydale]

Only going to comment on the dressage as these days I like all 4 feet on the ground!

I thought the test was nicely ridden and the horse looked happy and calm throughout. Trot seems to be the strongest pace but the medium could have been better prepared as I am sure there is a really nice one in there, if you can put in a couple of strides of sneaky shoulder in/fore in the corner before the diagnonal, this often helps, do try and be sneaky about it though! Walk seems to be his weakest pace it lacks purpose in the medium and he needs to stretch more and be more consistant in the free. Watch his quarters in canter as they seem to curl to the inside (could have been the angle of the video though). Very nice halt and rein back though!

Oh and you need more bling to be taken seriously

More bling? I was embarrassed enough to have to lay a dead sheep on his noseband to showjump.

I am normally quite sneaky in a test but I think I got stuck on "forward" and "straight" and forgot to use a bit of bending in the middle to my advantage. I'm not sure about the quarters curling to the inside, I'll go and have another look at that, thanks.