And so it begins... hoof issues :(

[Michen]

I am gutted to be writing this but always expected to be at some point given his history. Cutting a long story very short for those who don’t know he had very mild bruising of the coffin joints diagnosed via MRI two years ago. I took his shoes off to reduce concussion and could never get him quite comfortable, he would go footy after too much roadwork and grew very upright feet with a broken back HPA but I never understood why as he never landed toe first.

Can a horse get ringbone if none on x rays 8 months ago!?

He was shod just over a year ago and has been under the watchful eye of Chris Tuffnel (very good vet who works closely with Rockley). He’s worked hardish, low level eventing and hunting throughout the winter. Has always been very sound, always kept a watchful eye and never run on hard ground. He has a tendency to land outside heel first on his right hoof. After much deliberation, x rays etc we decided to trim him “wonky”, the way he seemed to want to wear his foot, in order to get him to land level. He’s never been quite consistently level on this hoof but pretty damn close,you have to really slow mo and watch hard to see it. we couldn’t find anything higher up and he’s had regularly soundness checks. Vet was happy with where we got to and felt it was as good as possible. We’ve quite literally spent hours trimming a little, walking him up in slow mo, trimming a little more etc with both vet and Farrier together. The idea being that it was preferable he landed level, than had a level looking hoof.

He’s now lame, most notably on a right hard circle. This actually happened a couple of weeks ago, he came out of the stable lame but marginal, I turned him out and he was totally sound the next day inc hard circle so I thought very little of it. Now however it’s happened again and he’s not come sound the next day. Pretty damn lame on a hard circle on that right fore, can also feel it on the turn when on board which happened very suddenly. I’ve also noticed he has lumps on both sides of both fores under the fetlocks, where you’d expect to feel ringbone, in all honestly maybe they’ve always been there but they certainly suddenly seem “big” though he didn’t have ringbone on x rays end of last year.

I have just had him re shod this morning and checked for bruising etc for now to keep things consistent, I’m also taking him off the grass for a couple of days to see if it could possibly be at all related. Will be booking in with vet as soon as I can next week.

My first step assuming this carries on will be shoes off, barefoot rehab but I am worried because of how he grew his feet last time in the upright broken back fashion. Here’s a video of his current landing, you can see the right fore, as I’ve said we’ve never got it “perfect” but it’s toe first now as well as unlevel (or at best maybe it’s outside first but flat...). Luckily, being somewhat neurotic, I have videos from at least every three weeks so I know this toe first landing can’t have been going on too long.

No idea what to do from here, he feels the best he ever has, jumping so well etc. I ran at elmwood last weekend and the ground was at the hardest I would be comfortable running on (by no means “hard” , they had worked it really well) Last year he ran on similar with no problems but of course I’m kicking myself. Of course it could be something higher up and not hoof related, or this could be the rumbling reason for why he’s always wanted to land in that way, but no idea where we would start given he’s always passed flexions, had everything x rayed etc.

Any thoughts and suggestions are most welcome, I am beyond upset but also accepting that when I chose to shoe and “use” this horse there was the potential for him to break down given he had had hoof problems as a 5 year old. I had thought perhaps I the fact his angles were much better in shoes than the upright growth he gets barefoot meant perhaps I wasn’t doing more damage than good. I’m adding things up in my head, a freak mistake he made jumping a few weeks ago etc and expecting the worst

Any thoughts welcome but go easy on me, I am gutted and adore this animal, he has a home forever regardless of what he can or can’t do and the only reason I’ve re shod him is incase it’s totally un hoof related and he comes sound quickly, I can’t truly assess lameness if I take the shoes off now as he will likely be sore on the stoney area we have to use for lameness test. Assuming he’s still the same this time next week and landing the same he will be going in for x rays and shoes will be coming off.

Bleh.



[video]

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm sorry you are worried about him but I would say don't start to try to diagnose the problem until the vet has seen him. There might be a fairly simple reason for this.

 

[Michen]

I'm sorry you are worried about him but I would say don't start to try to diagnose the problem until the vet has seen him. There might be a fairly simple reason for this.

I’m absolutely gutted PA, the toe first landing sends my blood cold. I suppose it could be a higher up tweak that’s now making him land toe first? It just seems to coincidental given we have always struggled with keeping that hoof level. Also these ringbone feeling bumps... urgh!

 

[Red-1]

I have certainly seen much worse hoof landings than are shown on that video.

I would either turn away now, until you need to get him back for the autumn events (as the ground will be likely too hard from now on anyway), or go for the full X ray now to put your mind at rest.

 

[Michen]

I have certainly seen much worse hoof landings than are shown on that video.

I would either turn away now, until you need to get him back for the autumn events (as the ground will be likely too hard from now on anyway), or go for the full X ray now to put your mind at rest.

He probably lands better than most on the yard, but I am extra cautious with his history etc so I keep track for even the slightest change.


I’m worried about his weight if he gets turned away. He’s stabled half the day and still ballooning on the most grassless field we have, I could look at muzzling him. Not fussed about getting him back for autumn events, just want him alright in general. Had thought that lots of walk work was good for barefoot rehab assuming it’s a hoof prob, but if not... who knows.

I expect x rays won’t show much but an mri would (not insuredfor) if hoof issue

 

[Red-1]

I have done 3 on a barefoot rehab to affiliated level, and yes we did an awful lot of walking, but for mine it was road walking starting in hand, and 100 yards at first, building up slowly over several weeks. Having said that I didn't use boots for two of them so we were bound by what their bare feet were comfortable with, and the third was recovering from a suspensory tweak so we took that slowly too.

I think you are right to take it seriously, as I would be suspect at the falls he had being connected. The one I had with ringbone started with not travelling well, even though he was sound. I did not believe the travel issue was a physical one at the time. I think the bone is aggrivated and is sore before it lays down extra. With our horse it was over a year with the travelling befre the lameness came, but looking back I think it had been grumbling.

I am not a vet. I guess the vet is the only one who can give you any answers.

 

[DabDab]

Tbh, it looks like he's just tweaked something in that right foot area - when that foot is at full extension in either direction (both when just about to pick up and just about to put down) he's tightening and rushing through that section of the movement. He's both snapping up ever so slightly rather than lifting softly and is landing toe first on the other end of the stride.

I would think it's unlikely to be to do with the hoof shape and angles specifically, and more likely that he's done it gooning around and has some minor soft tissue strain.

Fwiw, I don't think that having the shoes off will necessarily make him go boxy footed again.

 

[SpringArising]

I'm really sorry to read this. Horses are heartbreakers.

I know this is going to sound OTT and probably unnecessarily negative, but if I were you I'd write him off as a competition horse and focus my energy in getting him sound enough to enjoy at a very low level. I know that for me, that would take the pressure off a bit.

I'd turn him away for three months with shoes off (and manage his weight in the best way you can - would turning him out in an arena with a companion be possible?) and see what the crack is after that. An X-ray will pick up ringbone in most cases but you might have to do an MRI if not conclusive (that's if you want to fully investigate).

 

[SEL]

In a situation like this my old YO would slap a poultice on and take him off the grass 'just in case' until the vet could come out. We cancelled many a vet appointment due to either the appearance of pus or the horse just sorting itself out.

He may well have tweaked himself on the rock solid ground we've got right now so don't lose hope yet.

 

[Michen]

I have done 3 on a barefoot rehab to affiliated level, and yes we did an awful lot of walking, but for mine it was road walking starting in hand, and 100 yards at first, building up slowly over several weeks. Having said that I didn't use boots for two of them so we were bound by what their bare feet were comfortable with, and the third was recovering from a suspensory tweak so we took that slowly too.

I think you are right to take it seriously, as I would be suspect at the falls he had being connected. The one I had with ringbone started with not travelling well, even though he was sound. I did not believe the travel issue was a physical one at the time. I think the bone is aggrivated and is sore before it lays down extra. With our horse it was over a year with the travelling befre the lameness came, but looking back I think it had been grumbling.

I am not a vet. I guess the vet is the only one who can give you any answers.

I would have been more concerned about the fall being connected if his general jumping had worsened. But he’s got better and better, he’s not touched a pole all year (bar the obvious) and is a different horse jumping to last year. It doesn’t seem to make sense...

I’ll obviously do whatever for him, he doesn’t need to compete just needs to be happy. Competing, hunting etc is obviously an added bonus but not a necessary one.

Tbh, it looks like he's just tweaked something in that right foot area - when that foot is at full extension in either direction (both when just about to pick up and just about to put down) he's tightening and rushing through that section of the movement. He's both snapping up ever so slightly rather than lifting softly and is landing toe first on the other end of the stride.

I would think it's unlikely to be to do with the hoof shape and angles specifically, and more likely that he's done it gooning around and has some minor soft tissue strain.

Fwiw, I don't think that having the shoes off will necessarily make him go boxy footed again.

I really hope so- that would be the best outcome. He is a total idiot in the field so it wouldn’t surprise me and he thinks nothing of hooning around on hard ground. The less I do under saddle the more he hoons 😩

I'm really sorry to read this. Horses are heartbreakers.

I know this is going to sound OTT and probably unnecessarily negative, but if I were you I'd write him off as a competition horse and focus my energy in getting him sound enough to enjoy at a very low level. I know that for me, that would take the pressure off a bit.

I'd turn him away for three months with shoes off (and manage his weight in the best way you can - would turning him out in an arena with a companion be possible?) and see what the crack is after that. An X-ray will pick up ringbone in most cases but you might have to do an MRI if not conclusive (that's if you want to fully investigate).

I am happy to write him off as that but don’t want to be overly negative just yet. He was sound and looked good on a hard circle literally 2/3 weeks ago, so whatever has happened it seems to have happened quickly. I’m not talking slightly lame on a hard circle that you have to really look to see, he’s lame lame. I’m hoping that means it’s an “injury” or trauma rather than a long term grumbling problem, it seems strange to have gone so lame, so quickly. 99% of horse owners wouldn’t even know their horse landed slightly unevenly on one hoof and he is watched so carefully I don’t know that this could be something that’s been a gradual decline..? Argh. Who knows.

In a situation like this my old YO would slap a poultice on and take him off the grass 'just in case' until the vet could come out. We cancelled many a vet appointment due to either the appearance of pus or the horse just sorting itself out.

He may well have tweaked himself on the rock solid ground we've got right now so don't lose hope yet.

Yep he’s off the grass now. He has put on a lot of weight, quickly. He has also been an idiot in his field. In isolation without being obsessive over hoof landings I wouldn’t be overly panicking..

 

[Michen]

I have done 3 on a barefoot rehab to affiliated level, and yes we did an awful lot of walking, but for mine it was road walking starting in hand, and 100 yards at first, building up slowly over several weeks. Having said that I didn't use boots for two of them so we were bound by what their bare feet were comfortable with, and the third was recovering from a suspensory tweak so we took that slowly too.

I think you are right to take it seriously, as I would be suspect at the falls he had being connected. The one I had with ringbone started with not travelling well, even though he was sound. I did not believe the travel issue was a physical one at the time. I think the bone is aggrivated and is sore before it lays down extra. With our horse it was over a year with the travelling befre the lameness came, but looking back I think it had been grumbling.

I am not a vet. I guess the vet is the only one who can give you any answers.

Did you turn away, and then start the walk work? Or start the walk work straight away?

 

[Goldenstar]

Like red-1 I have seen much worse than that.
I would stop hardwork just keep on tick over till the vet comes .
I would check and I mean really check for thrush it’s a bit warmer here it real summer thrush weather and you never know it might be as simple as that .
Of there’s a long long lost of what might be wrong .
Something like ringbone can develop quickly .

If you ask me to quess and it’s a wild guess I would say he has low grade chronic soft tissue damage probaly on the outer half of that foot.

Horses are heartbreakers but travel hopefully you have got it spotted now you need to see if the vet can get a nerve block to throw some light on things .

 

[ester]

I wouldn't look at the video and instantly call toe first TBH. Get xrays then see.

 

[Michen]

I wouldn't look at the video and instantly call toe first TBH. Get xrays then see.

It’s definitely not an obvious “not” toe first landing like it used to be though. So it’s heading one way even if it’s not quite there yet!

I’ll definitely get x rays though sceptical as to what they may show or not as the case may be. Unlikely I’ll be able to get an appointment with Chris until week after next, so at least I’ll be somewhat prevented from chucking a load of money at a problem that may be because he’s slipped in the field...positive thinking right?

 

[Michen]

Like red-1 I have seen much worse than that.
I would stop hardwork just keep on tick over till the vet comes .
I would check and I mean really check for thrush it’s a bit warmer here it real summer thrush weather and you never know it might be as simple as that .
Of there’s a long long lost of what might be wrong .
Something like ringbone can develop quickly .

If you ask me to quess and it’s a wild guess I would say he has low grade chronic soft tissue damage probaly on the outer half of that foot.

Horses are heartbreakers but travel hopefully you have got it spotted now you need to see if the vet can get a nerve block to throw some light on things .

That was my thought as to why he landed outside heel first. Vet always felt it was perhaps a weakness or imbalance higher up but there was no lameness to even begin searching for it. His opinion was that very few horses land perfectly and we had literally almost got the landing spot on, we were being very very picky.

I just don’t get why the lameness would suddenly be so acute, obviously there’s things (his fall) that are making me add things up, but his soundness and landing has literally been monitored every 3 weeks or so, to go from nothing to so very lame that quickly just seems odd.

 

[ester]

It does also give you time to see if it is consistent or changes. Let's not call ringbone just yet .

Did you see the post with the badminton trot up landings

 

[Michen]

It does also give you time to see if it is consistent or changes. Let's not call ringbone just yet .

Did you see the post with the badminton trot up landings

I did it filled me with horror 😂

 

[ester]

haha proper chuckling!

 

[Michen]

haha proper chuckling!

The lumps you see on this horses Pastern (badminton trot up) are what Boggle has but more in the location of the one on the left of the pic. And bigger. I can’t believe that I wouldn’t have noticed them if they had always been there..?

 

[ester]

hard not to be distracted by the massive event line

but ermm are you sure its not just the sidebone that he had previously?

 

[Michen]

hard not to be distracted by the massive event line

but ermm are you sure its not just the sidebone that he had previously?

I think it’s too high...? Plus Liphook said the sidebone was “within normal ranges” 🤷‍♀️

 

[ycbm]

Sudden onset lameness is more often an abscess than anything else Michen. I'll cross my fingers for that.

The lumps are very like ones which came up on my friend's Connie, built very like Boggle, at seven after doing a lot of long distance. They hardened off and reduced in size and have never bothered him. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that as well.

 

[Michen]

Sudden onset lameness is more often an abscess than anything else Michen. I'll cross my fingers for that.

The lumps are very like ones which came up on my friend's Connie, built very like Boggle, at seven after doing a lot of long distance. They hardened off and reduced in size and have never bothered him. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that as well.

That would be ideal, the farrier looked really hard for any sign of one or bruising but couldn’t find anything.

Did your friend ever x Ray to see what they actually were?

Thanks, am somewhat over emotional!

 

[TPO]

Easy to say but try not to panic. Regardless of whatever this transpires to be what an excellent and "on it" owner you are to notice such slight changes so stop being so hard and down on yourself.

It could be something and it could be nothing but either way you ate already taking all the correct immediate actions and will have agew days over the holiday weekend to monitor any changes and call vet if still required next week.

My immediate thought had already been mentioned on here but I'd treat as if he has thrush. The weather and grass can easily cause it to appear overnight and would make a horse want to stay off his frogs/palmer hoof and revert to toe first landings. What does his central sulcus look like?

If it comes to it I wouldn't worry about how his hoof will grow should you go barefoot. They tend to grow the hooves they need rather than what we think they should look like. There have been big changes in him muscularly since he arrived with you and in turn that will have affected how he moves and places his hooves (prior to this). You will probably find this time he grows a totally different hoof shape than he did when previously barefoot.

Good luck, hope he picks up over the weekend and it's just been a tweak

P.S.the hooves at badminton give me the horrors! I stopped looking a few years ago but "best shod" used to being me out in a cold sweat!! I think it was Pippa F that let one of hers (Red? Big chestnut gelding) go without shoes until she needed to stud for comps and made peace within needing to grow "ugly" hooves to stay sound. So yes you can event at the highest level with a horse than needs time bare

 

[Goldenstar]

You might want to consider investing in another mri scan of that foot.
See where you get after vet has seen
Try not to panic this may be something acute and easily sorted and it’s also worth remembering competitions are full and I mean full of horses having happy lives with issues that are being managed

 

[DabDab]

I would have been more concerned about the fall being connected if his general jumping had worsened. But he’s got better and better, he’s not touched a pole all year (bar the obvious) and is a different horse jumping to last year. It doesn’t seem to make sense...

I’ll obviously do whatever for him, he doesn’t need to compete just needs to be happy. Competing, hunting etc is obviously an added bonus but not a necessary one.




I really hope so- that would be the best outcome. He is a total idiot in the field so it wouldn’t surprise me and he thinks nothing of hooning around on hard ground. The less I do under saddle the more he hoons 😩



I am happy to write him off as that but don’t want to be overly negative just yet. He was sound and looked good on a hard circle literally 2/3 weeks ago, so whatever has happened it seems to have happened quickly. I’m not talking slightly lame on a hard circle that you have to really look to see, he’s lame lame. I’m hoping that means it’s an “injury” or trauma rather than a long term grumbling problem, it seems strange to have gone so lame, so quickly. 99% of horse owners wouldn’t even know their horse landed slightly unevenly on one hoof and he is watched so carefully I don’t know that this could be something that’s been a gradual decline..? Argh. Who knows.




Yep he’s off the grass now. He has put on a lot of weight, quickly. He has also been an idiot in his field. In isolation without being obsessive over hoof landings I wouldn’t be overly panicking..

I have the same problem with Arty mare - she's a tit in the field, and the more I try to restrict her tittishness the more of a tit she becomes. I've been following a (slightly enforced due to building work on stables) experiment of leaving them all out recently, and as long as she comes in for a nap, a bit of work and a feed she's been much less silly. My little fatty connemara has also lost weight on this regime, though my fields are long and thin so they move about a lot and my grass is far from lush. Could you maybe sort him some 24/7 minimal grass turnout for him for a bit?

 

[Michen]

Easy to say but try not to panic. Regardless of whatever this transpires to be what an excellent and "on it" owner you are to notice such slight changes so stop being so hard and down on yourself.

It could be something and it could be nothing but either way you ate already taking all the correct immediate actions and will have agew days over the holiday weekend to monitor any changes and call vet if still required next week.

My immediate thought had already been mentioned on here but I'd treat as if he has thrush. The weather and grass can easily cause it to appear overnight and would make a horse want to stay off his frogs/palmer hoof and revert to toe first landings. What does his central sulcus look like?

If it comes to it I wouldn't worry about how his hoof will grow should you go barefoot. They tend to grow the hooves they need rather than what we think they should look like. There have been big changes in him muscularly since he arrived with you and in turn that will have affected how he moves and places his hooves (prior to this). You will probably find this time he grows a totally different hoof shape than he did when previously barefoot.

Good luck, hope he picks up over the weekend and it's just been a tweak

P.S.the hooves at badminton give me the horrors! I stopped looking a few years ago but "best shod" used to being me out in a cold sweat!! I think it was Pippa F that let one of hers (Red? Big chestnut gelding) go without shoes until she needed to stud for comps and made peace within needing to grow "ugly" hooves to stay sound. So yes you can event at the highest level with a horse than needs time bare

Thank you xx will have a good look at his frogs later, can’t say I’ve paid much attention to them as thrush didn’t occur to me. I’ve always been so careful to monitor him as despite his Boggleness he’s such a genuine and happy boy, but I’m painfully aware that this could be to his detriment if he continues jumping etc even when uncomfortable.

He will get the very best but heaven help us both if he needs to be a happy hack or a field ornament as he is just neither of those things. Well.. depending on your definition of a happy hack I suppose.l.

 

[Michen]

He can’t at current set up... I’d be really, really reluctant to send him away anywhere unless I absolutely had to.

There is the added issue that he’s terrorised every horse he’s ever been turned out with though I imagine in a herd he would settle as long as top dog... but I do recall yard owners at holiday livery places not being too keen to take him short term when I’ve looked before, due to the risk of upsetting their own herd for a non permanent terrorist , which is fair enough.

I have the same problem with Arty mare - she's a tit in the field, and the more I try to restrict her tittishness the more of a tit she becomes. I've been following a (slightly enforced due to building work on stables) experiment of leaving them all out recently, and as long as she comes in for a nap, a bit of work and a feed she's been much less silly. My little fatty connemara has also lost weight on this regime, though my fields are long and thin so they move about a lot and my grass is far from lush. Could you maybe sort him some 24/7 minimal grass turnout for him for a bit?

 

[scats]

Try not to panic, easier said than done I know.
Millie trotted out lame about a month back- I felt that horrid panic that I had another write off on my hands (when you’ve been there so many times, you can’t help it!)
I decided to just give her a week off, not even look at her trotting up for at least a week and see what we had then. It was a horrid week, I threw myself into working Polly but I had that dread in the pit of my stomach!
Fortunately, she was completely sound by the following weekend, confirmed by farrier and vet chiro and has returned to work fine.
I can only assume it was something to do with the hard ground, as it coincided with us having not had any rain for ages and she had been flying around the field.

Give him a couple of weeks off, don’t even look at him trotting up and see what you have in two weeks time. Then make a decision based on that -unless he ends up hobbling or getting worse, of course.

Big hugs x

 

[Michen]

Try not to panic, easier said than done I know.
Millie trotted out lame about a month back- I felt that horrid panic that I had another write off on my hands (when you’ve been there so many times, you can’t help it!)
I decided to just give her a week off, not even look at her trotting up for at least a week and see what we had then. It was a horrid week, I threw myself into working Polly but I had that dread in the pit of my stomach!
Fortunately, she was completely sound by the following weekend, confirmed by farrier and vet chiro and has returned to work fine.
I can only assume it was something to do with the hard ground, as it coincided with us having not had any rain for ages and she had been flying around the field.

Give him a couple of weeks off, don’t even look at him trotting up and see what you have in two weeks time. Then make a decision based on that -unless he ends up hobbling or getting worse, of course.

Big hugs x

Thank you xx Right, will get a grip, have a G&T or ten and try to not be a blotchy mess all weekend 🙄