And so it begins... hoof issues :(

[DabDab]

He can’t at current set up... I’d be really, really reluctant to send him away anywhere unless I absolutely had to.

There is the added issue that he’s terrorised every horse he’s ever been turned out with though I imagine in a herd he would settle as long as top dog... but I do recall yard owners at holiday livery places not being too keen to take him short term when I’ve looked before, due to the risk of upsetting their own herd for a non permanent terrorist , which is fair enough.

😂😂 naughty bog. Yeah that's understandable

 

[SEL]

Thank you xx Right, will get a grip, have a G&T or ten and try to not be a blotchy mess all weekend 🙄

G&T works wonders! I was panicking about the retired big boy last night who was lame on his one sound-ish leg. Until I found the demolished fence post, broken tape and a fistful of tail hair on the floor. I guess we had fence vs itchy horse ..... looks much better after bute.

Horses have an amazing ability to self harm. Let's hope Boggle has just been a tit on the hard ground (still think a poultice is worth a shot tho!)

 

[Red-1]

Did you turn away, and then start the walk work? Or start the walk work straight away?

I am lucky to use my arena as turnout in winter, and the start of winter is when have I started them all off. The surface is sand with rubber chunks, so a bit like softer pea gravel. I have always given them a few days to relax then started walking, but it would literally be 50yds up the road and back in hand.

If ever the horse felt sore I gave it a day off and scaled the distance back until they weren't sore, and if they were going great guns we would go a bit further.

I would go a shorter distance if their feet were wet too as they wear out quicker. I also took a smidge off 2 or 3 times a week so there was never a big trim.

I know you know that diet etc are also essential, plus I would start with a cleantrax soak. I do use hoof products, a fancy French one for bare feet, and a fancy frog dressing from the same company.

 

[Michen]

I think perhaps Ester is right looking again post shoeing today, that seems like a pretty flat (albeit still slightly outside heel first) landing so perhaps there isn’t as drastic a change as I thought. I usually shoe every 4 weeks but he was nearing 5 this time, maybe that is what made the difference and the landing is a red herring.

I guess also given how “level” the hoof is in the air here and it’s really near hitting the ground, the amount of outside heel first landing must be pretty minimal (I’m comparing to the badminton photos where the horses whole hoof in flight is like a flying saucer..!)

 

[ester]

No, surely not, I have never been right......

*tops up Michen's G+T as the probably the best anti worry she can manage, the try not to worry posts do make me lol with you!

 

[Michen]

So... he’s a million times better. In fact I’m not even sure if it’s lameness I’m seeing now or the dips on the uneven hard surface I have to use... he’s been box rested for 24 hours with ten mins turnout in a small paddock for a leg stretch.

Am not holding my breath as this is what happened a few weeks ago, and I’m still going to get some slides done of feet etc week after next as he’s due a “check” on them anyway.

But I’m not sure what to do from here re turnout etc. Could this be grass related? Or a strain that improves significantly with rest? He did have a hoon around and a lot of handstands in his ten min turnout, and it was after that I had a look re lameness so doesn’t seem like that aggravated it.

Either way I’m not sure this presents like a chronic rumbling issue that’s suddenly reared it’s head...

Could grass really make a horse so lame in one leg? I haven’t soaked his hay on box rest either, so it’s not like he’s been totally sugar free!

 

[scats]

Can you put him on a couple of hours turnout a day on grass and see how you get on? If he has improved with box rest, I can see why some people would want to continue that, but is he the type who is likely to have a mad one when he is finally turned out, potentially causing himself more problems?

 

[Michen]

Can you put him on a couple of hours turnout a day on grass and see how you get on? If he has improved with box rest, I can see why some people would want to continue that, but is he the type who is likely to have a mad one when he is finally turned out, potentially causing himself more problems?

He’s always mad so I don’t think he would necessarily be any madder if that makes sense! Either way when he’s out he’s forever doing idiotic stuff (new for this year is chasing crows in his field..)

Can definitely do a couple of hours.

Also have terrible hangover- thanks Bog!

 

[palo1]

It could be an abcess - either one that is a bit of a rumbling one which can present as lame one day, not lame another or a bruise/abcess that just looks awful when a horse lands on a particular spot on the hoof. It may progress or it may go away. If vets/farriers/owners could find something that would reliably detect abcesses, they would make a fortune. Farriers can't always locate them and horses sometimes don't seem to respond to hoof testers in a typical 'abcess' way but it doesn't mean that an abcess is not brewing...Best of luck with this.

 

[ihatework]

Deep breath. Don’t google. Don’t over analyze. It could be a whole host of different things. Let the vet have a look and take it from there.

 

[ycbm]

So... he’s a million times better. In fact I’m not even sure if it’s lameness I’m seeing now or the dips on the uneven hard surface I have to use... he’s been box rested for 24 hours with ten mins turnout in a small paddock for a leg stretch.

Am not holding my breath as this is what happened a few weeks ago, and I’m still going to get some slides done of feet etc week after next as he’s due a “check” on them anyway.

But I’m not sure what to do from here re turnout etc. Could this be grass related? Or a strain that improves significantly with rest? He did have a hoon around and a lot of handstands in his ten min turnout, and it was after that I had a look re lameness so doesn’t seem like that aggravated it.

Either way I’m not sure this presents like a chronic rumbling issue that’s suddenly reared it’s head...

Could grass really make a horse so lame in one leg? I haven’t soaked his hay on box rest either, so it’s not like he’s been totally sugar free!

YES.

It's called a 'signature foot'. I had a fit eventer who was over fed while I was on holiday and got pretty severe lamnitis. He recovered fine, but forever after was sensitive to grass, and one foot always went long before the rest.

It sounds very much like a grumbling abscess or a signature foot to me. Fingers still crossed.

 

[Michen]

Interesting...not sure how I’ll work it if it is grass related. I don’t think he’s tubby though he has gained plenty of weight fairly quickly. Useless angled pic from this eve but he’s already kept off the grass for half of the day. Could look to swap dry hay for low sugar haylage whilst he’s in.

Still no sign of heat or pulses.

If he’s that sensitive to grass would it indicate a metabolic problem?

YES.

It's called a 'signature foot'. I had a fit eventer who was over fed while I was on holiday and got pretty severe lamnitis. He recovered fine, but forever after was sensitive to grass, and one foot always went long before the rest.

It sounds very much like a grumbling abscess or a signature foot to me. Fingers still crossed

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Shoes off and back to barefoot. I never bother with the vet - it's always the same - nerve block, MRI, box rest, remedial shoeing and a thousand of your good pounds please.....

Forget trimming a bit here and a bit there - leave them alone and let them do their own thing*

You sound like you've got a good handle on barefoot anyway but just out of nosiness, what do you feed?

Can't tell how a horse is landing when they're shod, so don't break your heart just yet!

*I'm looking after a friend's horse at the mo. We've got building works going on and part of their field is rubble and stones. Said horses feet looked like cr+p but it could gallop over those stones without noticing. Friend saw feet and said please get farrier to trim. I followed my orders, despite not wanting to. Farrier is 'one of the best' in the area.....Horses feet now look pretty but it can barely potter over those stones now. It'll be fine again in a fortnight but poor horse in the meanwhile. Moral of the story - leave their feet alone!!! As long as they're moving around and getting exercise and roadwork ideally, they'll grow the foot they need.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

Just seen your pic. He's very beautiful and very trim too.

 

[Michen]

Shoes off and back to barefoot. I never bother with the vet - it's always the same - nerve block, MRI, box rest, remedial shoeing and a thousand of your good pounds please.....

Forget trimming a bit here and a bit there - leave them alone and let them do their own thing*

You sound like you've got a good handle on barefoot anyway but just out of nosiness, what do you feed?

Can't tell how a horse is landing when they're shod, so don't break your heart just yet!

*I'm looking after a friend's horse at the mo. We've got building works going on and part of their field is rubble and stones. Said horses feet looked like cr+p but it could gallop over those stones without noticing. Friend saw feet and said please get farrier to trim. I followed my orders, despite not wanting to. Farrier is 'one of the best' in the area.....Horses feet now look pretty but it can barely potter over those stones now. It'll be fine again in a fortnight but poor horse in the meanwhile. Moral of the story - leave their feet alone!!! As long as they're moving around and getting exercise and roadwork ideally, they'll grow the foot they need.

Just seen your pic. He's very beautiful and very trim too.

Thanks, i thought he was a little porky but actually looking at the pictures he's not at all, he's carrying more weight than he did over winter ( he did get too lean in winter ) so I think he just looked a bit big to me.

Feed wise he''s on a handful of cheap pony nuts purely to carry salt and equimins advance complete. In winter he was on copious amounts of varying feeds but always barefoot friendly (linseed, copra, etc).

I certainly won't be going down the route of remedial farriery but assuming the lameness persists and it isn't an abscess/trauma type issue I'll probably have a nerve block pinged to make sure its the hoof. As much as I agree with barefoot, I never managed to get him entirely comfortable last time and no one was particularly happy with the upright feet he grew (not to say he will do that again this time).

I have my reasons for shoeing (inc selfish ones- studding for competing) but obviously if this is a hoof issue then it'll be a barefoot rehab for us!

I am still now suspecting it's not something chronic as I thought though... hmmm.

 

[Andalucian]

Right fore balance is not good, this is where you need to start your focus.

 

[Michen]

Right fore balance is not good, this is where you need to start your focus.

If we trim the hoof level and balanced, he lands more wonky. At the moment we are trimming the hoof the way he wore it barefoot, to encourage a more level landing (my vet is of the opinion that a level landing is more important than a perfect looking hoof). Obviously the landing is still not 100% perfect, but it’s very slight. We walk him barefoot and slow mo video to get it right whilst showing.

I’m not sure what else we can do re that foot in general (assuming this lameness is unrelated). There must be an issue or weakness somewhere but we’ve never been able to find it and frankly whilst he’s been sound and happy in his work, it seemed pointless to continue to dig.

Obviously depending on what happens over the next few weeks with this sudden lameness and x rays we may need a different approach which will be shoes off no trim. Can be pretty sure his hoof will remain as it is though, how he wants to wear it.

 

[sherry90]

I have the (almost!) exact same issue with my young ID at the moment.

He had a fall in the field, witnessed by a livery. He came up sound but I didn’t work him for a few days just incase and booked thermal imaging and physio to give him the once over. I rode him a few days after and he slightly lame left fore just going into the corners of the school (intermittently and not on the straight) significant lame on hard circle left fore. Poulticed for a week and awaiting thermal imaging.

Thermal imaging showed heat in both fronts - not looking like abscess as heat was not isolated to a particular area - showed the whole foot and back of heel on left fore. Vet came and diagnosed lami (they did mention one foot can be more effected than others?) and xrays confirmed no rotation and otherwise clean. Horse was box rested for a week and appeared to be slightly better particularly on the soft. Pulses kept coming back up as grazing time increased from hand grazing 10 mins to few hours turnout in small paddock.

I’ve sent him to a track livery for a holiday. Shoes off, he has access to meadow hay in feeders and lots of friends. The alternative was box rest and turnout in very small paddock. I can’t ride at the moment due to my own back issues and awaiting an op.

I wouldn’t rule out laminitis- I have seen and heard so much about of it this year. My lad is a bit more weighty than yours (he did very well this winter and I won’t be allowing him to do so well this year!) and I wouldn’t say his grazing was lush. It’s short and sugary though and he was out 24/7 - I will be managing him very differently next spring. I just need to get him right this year

Good luck with your boy - fingers crossed it’s something minor and he’s just had a tweak. Scarily similar to my situation so I feel your worry!

 

[Michen]

Well by way of update, the return to soundness was short lived. Still on box rest and just left his stable this morning looking pretty awful all around, head low even just walking he’s clearly not right. Didn’t even want to break into a trot. Enough that my first thought would be laminitis but that doesn’t make sense given he’s been off the grass since Saturday now albeit with normal hay.

Feet are ice cold, no pulses. I am stumped.

Bad enough that I don’t think I’ll be going up north for work today as he needs a vet immediately regardless of if I can get my usual one or not.

Bleh

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh bleep. Bog, please stop worrying your mother like this. Maybe he has picked up a virus? I hope the vet can readily find out what’s up and sort him.

 

[TPO]

Sorry to hear that 😔. Hopefully you get some answers from the vet today 🤞🏻

 

[Michen]

Oh bleep. Bog, please stop worrying your mother like this. Maybe he has picked up a virus? I hope the vet can readily find out what’s up and sort him.

He was still bright in himself but clearly in pain, he was “short” in both fronts but the really red flag was the way he was walking with his head low even though he was walking with a fair bit of speed. Boggle is a head up and assess his surroundings at all times type, sounds silly but just not right. He should have been bouncing out of his stable.

 

[AmyMay]

Good luck with the vet today xx

 

[splashgirl45]

fingers crossed for today, he looks just right in your photo IMO.....

 

[SEL]

One day I'll be brave enough to show photos of the feet my barefoot draft grows

He was still bright in himself but clearly in pain, he was “short” in both fronts but the really red flag was the way he was walking with his head low even though he was walking with a fair bit of speed. Boggle is a head up and assess his surroundings at all times type, sounds silly but just not right. He should have been bouncing out of his stable.

Ahhhhh - horses!!

Let us know what the vet says. Trust your gut - if you think he's not right then he probably isn't.

 

[Goldenstar]

Oh no , that’s so disappointing.
Fingers crossed that there are answers to found today .

 

[HashRouge]

Fingers crossed for today Michen xx

 

[Michen]

Thanks guys, my super vet is coming at 4pm with x ray machine which is a massive relief.

Feeling like I've potentially broken him down through hunting/eventing despite trying to do everything right, will be absolutely heartbroken if this is on me

 

[Michen]

Heyyy guys.

So... vet been. He actually out of the box a million times better. Vet felt he was 1/10 lame on straight, 2/10 after flexion. About 2/10 on hard circle trot so actually we aren’t talking about anything overly tragic and certainly no where near the obvious head nodding lame he was on Friday on the circle.

Chris feels it’s more than likely given how it’s presented to be bruising. He said the sudden worsening etc could be attributed to me letting him have half an hour or so in the field and him doing some handstands.

Although he stayed sound for 4/5 days after his last run, I can’t deny the ground was the hardest I would be happy to run on (and I did second guess it), maybe some activity in the field just about finished him off and created a perfect storm.

Of course the worst case scenario is soft tissue problem such as collateral lig/ddft but Chris feels whilst not ruled out, it’s less likely given the sudden presentation and how acute it was etc.

So for now we are buting for a week deep bed and box rest with a reassess in 10 days to see where we are. I queried taking the shoes off but for now he wants to keep things consistent and leave the feet be so we can truly assess recovery.

We are going to x Ray even if he comes sound quickly, although not now as we don’t want to remove shoes, because I want some recent slides of those feet to be keeping an eye on anyway.

Feel a bit calmer though obviously very concerned. He’s suffered from bruised feet before, two years ago, but other than perhaps running him at elmwood when maybe I shouldn’t have I’ve been so careful with him all spring re ground, when and where he does his canter work etc. I guess I also have to ask myself WHY he’s getting bruised if that is what he is, and whether moving forwards shoes are really the best option for him even if this resolved quickly. My vet just said some horses can be prone to it more than others, he has an upright conformation although the HPA is no longer broken back. We didn’t seem to have any problems last summer though and he did do one run in May and one in September on similar “on the fence as to whether this ground is ok” ground.

Thank god he is good on box rest, albiet a bit sad and miffed.

 

[splashgirl45]

well thats good news for now, at least he is feeling a bit better. , would it be worth putting keratex on to harden his feet up a bit? my loan horse although shod, really felt the stoney ground last summer and got an abscess and my farrier suggested using keratex as she had very thin soles. it worked really well for her.