wurzel
Well-Known Member
How can it be chased for a long distance at Dunkery Beacon?
By definition, it does not make sense !!!
By definition, it does not make sense !!!
Animal cruelty: Torment of a stag
- Thread starter Paul T
- Start date
combat_claire
Well-Known Member
And this also from the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/hunt/Story/0,,1860899,00.html
How will reducing the calibre of weapon used for shooting deer enhance the welfare aspect of their management???
http://www.guardian.co.uk/hunt/Story/0,,1860899,00.html
How will reducing the calibre of weapon used for shooting deer enhance the welfare aspect of their management???
CARREG
Well-Known Member
Then theres this............Carreg
The Times August 30, 2006
Extended deer cull would put orphan fawns in hunters' sights
By Fran Yeoman and Morwenna Coniam
RELAXED rules on deerhunting will bring more marksmen into the countryside as the wild deer population continues to soar.
Proposals to shorten the annual close period, during which deer are protected, and to allow orphaned fawns to be killed are among measures being put out to public consultation, it was announced yesterday.
The scheme is an attempt to reduce road accidents and damage to the countryside, according to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra). But it has angered some animal rights campaigners, who argued that the plans will lead to a huge surge in people hunting wild deer simply for sport.
A spokesman for the RSPCA gave a cautious welcome to the measures where there is clear evidence of a need to cull deer and it is done by humane methods. A healthy, sustainable deer population must also be maintained, the RSPCA said. It is very important that deer are not simply portrayed or regarded as pests. There is more to deer management than culling.
It is essential that where exceptional circumstances are cited to support a particular course of action, the circumstances are truly exceptional. From an animal welfare perspective, the second principle of the Deer Initiative Accord is paramount a humane, responsible and sensitive approach to management.
Barry Gardiner, the Biodiversity Minister, said that wild deer populations were growing rapidly in parts of the country despite annual culls, and as a result the animals are causing millions of pounds worth of damage to agriculture.
He said: They are damaging some of our most threatened woodland habitats. In addition, they are presenting an increasing hazard on our roads, with more than 300 people injured each year in deer-related road accidents.
If the proposals become law, the close season will be shortened by a fortnight and licensed killing of deer will be permitted even during protected periods to prevent the deterioration of natural heritage or to preserve public health and safety.
Any reasonable and humane means to destroy deer suffering from injury or disease will be permitted, and dependent young could be killed if their mother has died.
Mr Gardiner added: The current laws were framed when deer numbers were smaller and no longer promote effective, sustainable deer management. These proposed changes will ensure that we strike the right balance between conserving deer and effectively addressing the problems they cause.
A spokesman for the Defra-funded deer initiative said: Changing farming patterns and the Governments policy of increasing forest cover have increased the available food and habitat. Climate change has meant we havent had a severe winter since about 1963, so everythings going their way.
Andrew Tyler, director of Animal Aid, the animal rights organisation, questioned whether the deer population was soaring. He said: Scotland has been talking about burgeoning numbers for some years now and as a result quite a lucrative stalking has built up. You cant trust figures on deer populations from pro-hunting lobbies.
If these proposals go ahead it looks like it will be a field day for those who want to kill deer. Whos going to check that the deer are shot humanely? Robert Gray, campaigns director for the Countryside Alliance, denied that hunting could become too widespread: Its so well regulated that youre not going to get any Tom, Dick or Harry just turning up there are a lot of lengthy procedures to getting a licence.
The announcement by Defra comes after publication of the Deer Action Plan in December 2004.
The Times August 30, 2006
Extended deer cull would put orphan fawns in hunters' sights
By Fran Yeoman and Morwenna Coniam
RELAXED rules on deerhunting will bring more marksmen into the countryside as the wild deer population continues to soar.
Proposals to shorten the annual close period, during which deer are protected, and to allow orphaned fawns to be killed are among measures being put out to public consultation, it was announced yesterday.
The scheme is an attempt to reduce road accidents and damage to the countryside, according to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra). But it has angered some animal rights campaigners, who argued that the plans will lead to a huge surge in people hunting wild deer simply for sport.
A spokesman for the RSPCA gave a cautious welcome to the measures where there is clear evidence of a need to cull deer and it is done by humane methods. A healthy, sustainable deer population must also be maintained, the RSPCA said. It is very important that deer are not simply portrayed or regarded as pests. There is more to deer management than culling.
It is essential that where exceptional circumstances are cited to support a particular course of action, the circumstances are truly exceptional. From an animal welfare perspective, the second principle of the Deer Initiative Accord is paramount a humane, responsible and sensitive approach to management.
Barry Gardiner, the Biodiversity Minister, said that wild deer populations were growing rapidly in parts of the country despite annual culls, and as a result the animals are causing millions of pounds worth of damage to agriculture.
He said: They are damaging some of our most threatened woodland habitats. In addition, they are presenting an increasing hazard on our roads, with more than 300 people injured each year in deer-related road accidents.
If the proposals become law, the close season will be shortened by a fortnight and licensed killing of deer will be permitted even during protected periods to prevent the deterioration of natural heritage or to preserve public health and safety.
Any reasonable and humane means to destroy deer suffering from injury or disease will be permitted, and dependent young could be killed if their mother has died.
Mr Gardiner added: The current laws were framed when deer numbers were smaller and no longer promote effective, sustainable deer management. These proposed changes will ensure that we strike the right balance between conserving deer and effectively addressing the problems they cause.
A spokesman for the Defra-funded deer initiative said: Changing farming patterns and the Governments policy of increasing forest cover have increased the available food and habitat. Climate change has meant we havent had a severe winter since about 1963, so everythings going their way.
Andrew Tyler, director of Animal Aid, the animal rights organisation, questioned whether the deer population was soaring. He said: Scotland has been talking about burgeoning numbers for some years now and as a result quite a lucrative stalking has built up. You cant trust figures on deer populations from pro-hunting lobbies.
If these proposals go ahead it looks like it will be a field day for those who want to kill deer. Whos going to check that the deer are shot humanely? Robert Gray, campaigns director for the Countryside Alliance, denied that hunting could become too widespread: Its so well regulated that youre not going to get any Tom, Dick or Harry just turning up there are a lot of lengthy procedures to getting a licence.
The announcement by Defra comes after publication of the Deer Action Plan in December 2004.
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
Can we have a neat précis rather than having to trawl through huge articles? It's most tiresome.
Hercules
Well-Known Member
Your sort always find the truth tiresome. Prick.
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
Having found a window in my busy schedule to read this, I'm absolutely fuming! What the bloody hell is someone from the CA doing talking about "lengthy procedures to getting a licence" to be a marksman? Anyone reading this will think there are perfectly well-qualified chaps around to bump off the deer - without an eight hour chase!!! Has the CA gone mad???
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Why do you pretend to be a farmer from Simonsbath and write letters to the western daily press?
Hercules
Well-Known Member
Because, just like his 'understanding' of wildlife is based on Walt Disney, his life is also a fantasy and is full of games of make believe.
We should take pity on the poor misguided creature.
We should take pity on the poor misguided creature.
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
I find these personal attacks very un-English. I increasingly worry about what's happening to the Motherland. Has she really become so brash and so common?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
To repeat my question.
Why do you pretend to be a farmer from Simonsbath and write letters to the western daily press?
Why do you pretend to be a farmer from Simonsbath and write letters to the western daily press?
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
Why do I pretend to write letters to the western daily press? I don't.
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Do you think it would be right to disobey the law by refusing to kill an animal?
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
No, the role of animals is to be killed. The method of killing should be determined solely in terms of how much pleasure it brings humans, irrespective of how cruel it is. This is why you and I both support staghunting even though we both know it's cruel.
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I disagree with you there Tony. I think it would be quite wrong for me to kill deer. I've never killed a deer in my life.
What makes you think I support stag hunting?
What makes you think I support stag hunting?
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
Do you support staghunting?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
What do you think Tony Pluck?
Why do you think I've been trying to get them to stop shooting deer?
Why do you think I've been trying to get them to stop shooting deer?
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
I think you support staghunting, yes, at least in public, even though you think it's cruel. I suspect you don't want to fall out with your pals Tom, Hercules and Nigel.
What's the "four" equivalent of a triumvirate?
What's the "four" equivalent of a triumvirate?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Don't be so absurd, I haven't even got a clue who they are.
I want a law against cruelty.
Which of my posts or letters are pro stag hunting?
I want a law against cruelty.
Which of my posts or letters are pro stag hunting?
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
Do you support stag hunting or not?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Not particularily,
have you ever heard of Richard Course?
Do you support Arsenal or Chelsea?
Mind you I've just bought a horse and I might well go out with the stag hounds, to see what they do. Just like a monitor.
have you ever heard of Richard Course?
Do you support Arsenal or Chelsea?
Mind you I've just bought a horse and I might well go out with the stag hounds, to see what they do. Just like a monitor.
Antoninus_Pluck
Well-Known Member
You're a charlatan. Your "message" is basically cant masquerading as deeply-felt moral outrage.
wurzel
Well-Known Member
You seem frustrated !!
I love stag hunting.
But I also support the right to chase deer without killing them.
I know this is difficult for you.
I love stag hunting.
But I also support the right to chase deer without killing them.
I know this is difficult for you.
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
quadumvirate
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Rubbish, I want an effective law against cruelty, you are happy with an innefective law against hunting.
I can and do break the law with out being cruel and I object to my activities being made illegal.
You are only prepared to think in black and white. There are more than two sides to the argument.
I can and do break the law with out being cruel and I object to my activities being made illegal.
You are only prepared to think in black and white. There are more than two sides to the argument.
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Do you think the law should ban things that are not cruel?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
Maybe I annoy you a little because I don't fit into one of the nice comfortable little pigeon holes that are all your narrow minded blinkered prejudiced little mind contains.
Just an idea.
You never told me which football team you support is it Arseneal or Chelsea?
Just an idea.
You never told me which football team you support is it Arseneal or Chelsea?
Ereiam_jh
Well-Known Member
I don't kill animals. Are you for, against or indifferent to what I do with ,my dogs.
Paul T
Well-Known Member
If they were 'just in front of you' I doubt they were chasing the deer, even if they were three-legged muts trying their best.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a huntsman is actually on a horse, which can gallop considerably faster than you can run. Unless, of course, the horse is three-legged as well. Anything's possible in your topsy-turvey world.
BTW, which part of 'I'm not sure what you do is illegal' don't you understand. I don't think you're thick but I am beginning to wonder.
Correct me if I'm wrong but a huntsman is actually on a horse, which can gallop considerably faster than you can run. Unless, of course, the horse is three-legged as well. Anything's possible in your topsy-turvey world.
BTW, which part of 'I'm not sure what you do is illegal' don't you understand. I don't think you're thick but I am beginning to wonder.
Hercules
Well-Known Member
The distance between huntsman/hounds or dogs/handler is irrelevant.
I can control my spaniel using voice and whistle from 200m+.
The law doesn't stipulate distances either.
Karl, once again you are tying yourself up in knots.
2 dogs to guns is good. 4 dogs to no guns is bad. What is it you don't understand?
I can control my spaniel using voice and whistle from 200m+.
The law doesn't stipulate distances either.
Karl, once again you are tying yourself up in knots.
2 dogs to guns is good. 4 dogs to no guns is bad. What is it you don't understand?
Paul T
Well-Known Member
"The distance between huntsman/hounds or dogs/handler is irrelevant."
Of course it's relevant. If Giles's dogs were just in front of him they couldn't be running very fast in which case it's highly unlikely they were chasing the deer. When dogs chase deer they run much quicker than humans.
By Giles's own admission, once his dogs are much more than 100 metres ahead of him they very difficult to control.
BTW I didn't state that the law stipulated distances. I think you need to stop tying yourself in knots with silly messages which betray your ignorance.
Of course it's relevant. If Giles's dogs were just in front of him they couldn't be running very fast in which case it's highly unlikely they were chasing the deer. When dogs chase deer they run much quicker than humans.
By Giles's own admission, once his dogs are much more than 100 metres ahead of him they very difficult to control.
BTW I didn't state that the law stipulated distances. I think you need to stop tying yourself in knots with silly messages which betray your ignorance.