Annoying mishap with newbie, where to go from here?

scats

scats

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I bought a little project a few weeks back- rising 10, NF X mare, done very little. When I tried it I rode in 2 open fields and did some roadwork. Bit 'looky' but nothing major. It was a very windy day so things were rattling all over the show. Was majorly impressed considering how bad weather conditions where, I don't mind looky or small spooks, but I HATE things stupidly sharp after a bad accident off hooligan a few years back. Previous owner said worst it did with her was see something and back off the leg. She didn't have a manège to ride in. What I felt underneath me appeared to support what previous owner was saying.

Took a bit of a punt on it and got for a very good price, wasn't sure if it would stay permanently, but initial plan was to stay for summer and produce/get it out and about etc. First week we had no saddle so she was introduced to everything in hand- seemed very brave and bold- took her on an inhand hack and she stormed out, did some lunging etc, all really positive. Was absolutely made up. No blowing, huffing, just absolutely bold as brass.

Brand new saddle fitted professionally last week. First day under saddle in manège and a relation of YO fired an air gun 10 feet away (claimed not to have seen us). Had just gone into trot and pony violently spooked sidewards and I came off. I don't blame her at all. I got back on (after strong words with the gun culprit!) but mare was understandably terrified. Spent about 45 minutes trying to get her just to walk on the track without leaping out of her skin. It was not a good experience for either of us. I didn't blame the pony at all and was understandably fuming over the whole thing.

Next day I took her in and did some inhand work in there, but she is genuinely very wary now and leaping all over the show at anything. She is just like a snorting, puffing and jumpy mess now. The day after we did some long no-pressure long reining, just letting her saunter about before encouraging her onto the track, but again, she's leaping over dramatically at things.

She probably associates the fright with me, i got on her that day, she hears an awful noise that scares her and then I'm on the floor, so I completely understand why she is so upset.

Trouble is, I feel like she is exhibiting the one behaviour I really didn't want to have to deal with and because I came off, I am riding defensively in order to sit the spooks and probably worrying her more.

Last night I tacked up and did some inhand work with her in the manège and then got on for a walk and trot. She did absolutely nothing wrong other than one pretty impressive spook, but I just hated every second of being on her as I'm constantly waiting for it now. She's not an easy ride- forward, then backs off with head in the air, then forward, which I was hugely looking forward to working with as it's my speciality (teeth been done, she's just been so badly schooled previously), but in the back of my head is this spooking/sharpness thing, so I feel like I can't even begin to start working with her as I just don't trust her reactions.

I understand it's early days and she may well settle again following this episode, but I really don't enjoy getting on her now and I wonder if I'm the right person to carrry on the job.

Options are-

Force myself to keep going with her, take it very slowly and see if she settles again, despite hating riding her and really not wanting to be up there.

See if I can get someone in to do a few weeks ridden work to get her through this patch.


Accept that I'm not the one for this job and move her on to someone who enjoys this sort of challenge.


Coffee and cake if you got this far!
 
You could work her on two reins daily until she stops spooking rather than riding her in the short term. Separately work on loud bangs so she doesn't over react in future.
 
FfionWinnie said:
You could work her on two reins daily until she stops spooking rather than riding her in the short term. Separately work on loud bangs so she doesn't over react in future.
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This would be my suggestion too.

While I would fully support you if you decided she wasn't the one for you, part of me thinks this is a little demon to conquer (gently and with sensitivity to your nerves!) because there was a clear-cut reason and explanation for the whoopsie, and she sounds like a genuine horse that you will be able to turn around.
 
Thanks all- I'm sort of bouncing between all 3 at the moment. I do believe I can overcome this with the pony given time, I've sorted out much worse, but I do wonder whether it will fester in the back of my mind for a long time to come and make me never truly trust her.

I do have someone who has offered to come out, she specialises in schooling nervy types and I have known her for over 20 years. She's more than happy to get on and give me an idea as to what she thinks, so I'm tempted to give that a whirl as I've just had surgery today so am likely out of action for a few days anyway.

Dad is very much of a 'move her on' mindset. Mums slightly more of a bunny hugger and would have me collect every single waif and stray if she could, but even she realises that I've had such awful luck with horses that I at least deserve to feel happy on whatever I'm riding.

Pony is a sweetie and, last night despite me being a bit worried, there were some actually stunning moments underneath me. Don't get me wrong, they were fleeting moments, but exciting none the less. She really could be very, very smart.

As for the loud noise thing, is there an app that I can download with noises on for when I start doing a bit of work on this?

If the Diva would walk a bit faster, I would hack her and lead the new one out around our farm a bit. But it would be like tying a Ferrari to a milk float (that's no disrespect to my diva, she is entirely perfect, but doesn't rush anywhere!)
 
Just thinking outside the box, but shes a steady mare and seems to have massively over reacted to a noise and kept on over reacting, and it was the first time you rode in a new saddle. Does the saddle definitely fit? My old boy was rock steady but if his saddle wasnt right he was a spooky idiot!
 
Leo Walker said:
Just thinking outside the box, but shes a steady mare and seems to have massively over reacted to a noise and kept on over reacting, and it was the first time you rode in a new saddle. Does the saddle definitely fit? My old boy was rock steady but if his saddle wasnt right he was a spooky idiot!
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Thank you for your thoughts. I'm pretty sure it fits fine as it appears to in every way, and saddler obviously thought it did, but I do know that sometimes even though they seemingly fit, horses sometimes say differently! I will give it another check over and perhaps get a second opinion on it.

I'm going to lay off the riding for a few days anyway as I'm meant to be out of action for a week after this surgery, so I will stick to long reining in a roller and doing in hand work and see what happens.

I do think she's always had a bit of a look and spook in her, although her first few days with me, she actually had bags more confidence than she seemed to at her last home.
 
Do you think she's aware of your feelings and anticipation? I think persevere and try not to attach any emotion to anything you do with her until she becomes more consistent but praise in abundance where it's due.

I made a mistake with my mare early on and it has taken a long time to sort but it has now resolved using the "no emotion" thing but lots of praise/treats (essentially positive reinforcement).
 
I had a young horse who had a massive overreaction to an external noise when we were in the arena. I came off, he was completely traumatised, and I had the same problem as you are having afterwards. So I stopped riding in the arena for a bit, took him out and about, lots of gentle hacks exploring stuff and getting him "re-chilled". After a while he was fine going back into the arena. He ended up being the sweetest bravest horse ever.
 
tallyho! said:
Do you think she's aware of your feelings and anticipation? I think persevere and try not to attach any emotion to anything you do with her until she becomes more consistent but praise in abundance where it's due.

I made a mistake with my mare early on and it has taken a long time to sort but it has now resolved using the "no emotion" thing but lots of praise/treats (essentially positive reinforcement).
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Totally hit the nail on the head here I think. Yesterday I realised I was obsessing over her ears when I was on her, basically waiting for a sign she was going to spook. I kicked myself up the backside and stopped looking anywhere other than where we were going and she hardly spooked.

I am so keen to help her and build a relationship and I think this has just knocked me. I'm going to take a step back, persevere for a bit longer and see what happens. When she was behaving yesterday, she got some nice neck scratches and praise and we finished when I felt she had given me even just a small improvement so ended on a calm and positive note. She then got some treats, a small feed and turned out.

She might not be the one for me in the long run, but I will try and turn her round a bit before I make my final decision.
 
Rowreach said:
I had a young horse who had a massive overreaction to an external noise when we were in the arena. I came off, he was completely traumatised, and I had the same problem as you are having afterwards. So I stopped riding in the arena for a bit, took him out and about, lots of gentle hacks exploring stuff and getting him "re-chilled". After a while he was fine going back into the arena. He ended up being the sweetest bravest horse ever.
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This is really encouraging, thank you. I partly think she's lost trust in me, as she must associate me with the fright, so I'm going to build that back up best I can. I normally gel with mares instantly and I really do want this to work as she's lovely.
 
As a serial nervous wreck take it from me when you feel like this you can make any horse stupid. Just take it gradually and work through it / change something so you aren't revisiting the scene of the crime immediately i.e. Can you hack in company instead of going in the school. Work on the ground in the school.

My horse is 99% donkey and I find myself thinking we are going really fast then I see the video and we are mostly cantering at a snails pace. It's all in my head. Annoying. Don't let the fear win!
 
Honestly, plenty of non-newbie horses might have reacted to the shots. I've ridden horses on farms with shoots and bird scarers who couldn't care less. But I've also seen proper big reactions (which are entirely rational for a flight animal hearing gunshots!) plenty of times too.

Not sure what your health situation is but coming off a few times isn't unlikely with this sport and if you're not happy with how you feel on this animal no harm getting a pro to ride her a few times and then moving her to someone in a better physical/mental state to cope. She doesn't sound (from this thread) to be in anyway a problem to pass on.
 
FfionWinnie- I used to be the gutsiest rider out there, would sit on anything at all, no problems. Barely ever came off as I had a seat like superglue. 10 years ago and I would have love this challenge, but I had a few bad accidents (A&E jobs) off a serial rodeo clown who dented my confidence somewhat, then was badly spooked off the hooligan a few years ago and hit the floor with incredible force. I couldn't move properly for weeks. I started to realise that everytime I came off, I was getting hurt- I very rarely had a little comedy fall.
My instructor said it was the curse of the good seat, so when I did come off, they were usually bad ones to have got me off.

In all fairness, the other day was a comedy fall, I didn't hurt myself besides a slightly sore arm, but it just brings back all those memories of awful falls.

GirlFriday- I think even my Diva would have spooked at the gun shot, it was that close, but I'm certain she wouldn't have done anything that would have unseated me. The hooligan, however, I would have been off in an instant. He was so bad that I basically had to do a risk assessment before I rode him, I really don't want to go down that road again!
I've just had surgery on my bladder and have found out that my Lupus has attacked it and damaged it so I have chronic permanent cystitis as a result. I'm going to get back on the diva this week, as I totally trust her, but I won't get on new one until I'm feeling better after the surgery as I'm still in some pain.

I've got that pro friend coming out next week to have a sit for me and I'm more than happy to pay her for a few weeks if I think she will benefit the mare. I honestly think the mare is spooky, by no means horrendous, but that the issues now have essentially stemmed from that fall and my stupid brain.

I do thank you for all your responses, I'll let you know how we get on over the next week or so.
 
scats said:
I've got that pro friend coming out next week to have a sit for me and I'm more than happy to pay her for a few weeks if I think she will benefit the mare. I honestly think the mare is spooky, by no means horrendous, but that the issues now have essentially stemmed from that fall and my stupid brain.
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I'm seeing the effects of a loss of confidence and anticipation of problems with a horse (an owner) I've just started working with.
Owners view of horse was it's difficult to lead in from field (plants and calls), spooky, can use hose on him, doesn't like flyspray, difficult in school (calling, planting, spooking). You get the picture. He's a big TB so could be a bit intimidating.
Watching the owner she was pussyfooting around him all the time expecting and explosion from him at any moment. Reacting to the slightest thing he did.
In less than a week horse now leads in fine, works very nicely in school, hosed last night no issue.
Only difference has been I expect the horse to do as he's dam well asked, any unwanted behaviour is corrected immediately. Horse now chilled with both me and owner. Owner now understands how her actions impact the horse. Life is good.
Owner has been struggling with this for 9 months and the only thing she changed this week is her attitude to what she expects from the horse.
Has been an eye opener for me just how dramatic a horse response can be just from a slightly nervous approach.
 
PaddyMonty said:
I'm seeing the effects of a loss of confidence and anticipation of problems with a horse (an owner) I've just started working with.
Owners view of horse was it's difficult to lead in from field (plants and calls), spooky, can use hose on him, doesn't like flyspray, difficult in school (calling, planting, spooking). You get the picture. He's a big TB so could be a bit intimidating.
Watching the owner she was pussyfooting around him all the time expecting and explosion from him at any moment. Reacting to the slightest thing he did.
In less than a week horse now leads in fine, works very nicely in school, hosed last night no issue.
Only difference has been I expect the horse to do as he's dam well asked, any unwanted behaviour is corrected immediately. Horse now chilled with both me and owner. Owner now understands how her actions impact the horse. Life is good.
Owner has been struggling with this for 9 months and the only thing she changed this week is her attitude to what she expects from the horse.
Has been an eye opener for me just how dramatic a horse response can be just from a slightly nervous approach.
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It's incredible isn't it? Pony was very spooky inhand in the winds over the weekend, but I am hugely confident with groundwork and things, so doesn't bother me in the slightest dealing with that sort of stuff.

Our manege gate is in the corner and it's a bit of a tight turn with overgrown grass and stuff next to it, so she had got a bit silly coming out and rushed out a few times in hand, so she is simply turned around and made to go back in and repeat with halting and praise, until she walks out quietly. I definitely don't pussy foot around her in this way.

I actually think I do the opposite on board, and over ride when this happens. So if she gets spooky, I get so intent on keeping her busy, bending her to the inside etc, leg on, that I actually end up doing the opposite of what I intend. I think I need to learn to ignore rather than over ride, if that makes sense.
 
scats said:
I've just had surgery on my bladder and have found out that my Lupus has attacked it and damaged it so I have chronic permanent cystitis as a result.
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God Scats that's rotten. I wouldn't wish cystitis on my worst enemy - it's truly flipping horrific!
 
SpringArising said:
God Scats that's rotten. I wouldn't wish cystitis on my worst enemy - it's truly flipping horrific!
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It's been awful. It started in 2012, I kept going to the GP with what felt like water and kidney infections and they were giving me antibiotics, but they weren't doing anything so I'd go back but they'd just give me more. Lab tests kept showing definite inflammation but no bacteria, but they just carried on with the antibiotics. Last year I saw a locum who counted that I'd been there 27 times with infections and couldn't understand why the other GPs were continuing to keep giving me antibiotics when it clearly needed further investigation. Only through her that I started having investigations into it, by now I was peeing in excess of 40 times a day.
Unfortunately it's been left so long that my bladder has developed scar tissue and can no longer stretch, so I am now left with 4-5 toilet trips per hour because I can't hold anything and the pain is really awful at times. Had a biopsy done yesterday, just in case, then back to see the surgeon in a few weeks to discuss my options.
It makes car journeys fun! If you're ever in the North West and you pass a woman peeing at the side of the road- that'll likely be me!
 
scats said:
It's been awful. It started in 2012, I kept going to the GP with what felt like water and kidney infections and they were giving me antibiotics, but they weren't doing anything so I'd go back but they'd just give me more. Lab tests kept showing definite inflammation but no bacteria, but they just carried on with the antibiotics. Last year I saw a locum who counted that I'd been there 27 times with infections and couldn't understand why the other GPs were continuing to keep giving me antibiotics when it clearly needed further investigation. Only through her that I started having investigations into it, by now I was peeing in excess of 40 times a day.
Unfortunately it's been left so long that my bladder has developed scar tissue and can no longer stretch, so I am now left with 4-5 toilet trips per hour because I can't hold anything and the pain is really awful at times. Had a biopsy done yesterday, just in case, then back to see the surgeon in a few weeks to discuss my options.
It makes car journeys fun! If you're ever in the North West and you pass a woman peeing at the side of the road- that'll likely be me!
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I've had a couple of awful bouts and have to be really careful not to trigger it.

I had it all over the tail end of Christmas and the symptoms lasted about 7 weeks - I was starting to really worry that I had interstitial cystitis and wouldn't ever feel normal again.

It always starts the same way - feeling a bit funny in my bladder, horrific urethra pain for about five hours, feeling sick, dizzy, shaking uncontrollably, then the constant need to wee for a few weeks.

In desperation during this last bout I forced myself to hold the urge, and only went to the toilet until I couldn't bear the pain any longer, and I slowly managed to get rid of the constant niggle feeling. I guess once you start 'giving in' to the feeling, your bladder becomes so weak that as soon as there's anything in there, you start feeling the urge to go.

I hope you manage to get something sorted because it really affects your state of mind!
 
hi scats, don`t forget the grass effect, lots of horses are daft at this time of year.

if it was mine, i would take the position of great respect, ie overdo the preparation, while getting to know the pony, always lunge it, then longrein, then do some loose or lunge jumping, i would tend to overdo the work, fun aspect, not kill it but think of something new everyday after running through the lungeing, longreining etc. to build confidence and open up the world of new and distracting sensations to this mature but unknowledgeable pony, whilst quietly getting it more forward thinking and fitter.

i would not ride it until i felt i could get on with the one thought in my head that i will ask it to do something and it will happen, it is going to happen and happen now, with no danger of imparting negative thoughts to the pony, even if to start it is riding round the yard or arena once without incident, and build on that.

its easy to underestimate how uneducated some ponies are, how little they really know and forget what a long road it can be.
 
scats said:
I actually think I do the opposite on board, and over ride when this happens. So if she gets spooky, I get so intent on keeping her busy, bending her to the inside etc, leg on, that I actually end up doing the opposite of what I intend. I think I need to learn to ignore rather than over ride, if that makes sense.
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Makes perfect sense and is the approach I have taken with owner - just ignore what he's doing, don't react in any way and just carry on asking for what you want. Seems to be working for her.
 
Did some long reining tonight, I only taught her this at the weekend, and this was her second attempt, but she was a pro so she's clearly a quick learner.

Long reined in the manège, start, halt, that sort of thing. Couple of minor spooks, she still is wary of the trailers parked at one end but didn't do anything stupid at all. Lunged off the long reins for a bit, bit wary of the line behind her, but settled within seconds and did some trot work. Then to finish, we long reined out of the school and round the lane- she was a bit blowy but actually quite bold considering. Really positive step today so I'm pleased.
 
Can you not hack for a few weeks? Ideally with a confident horse with you. That may calm her down and then slowly introduce the arena. I always hack mine out until they're fitter and then introduce the arena, its hard for them and maybe doing interesting things will take her mind off the bad experience.
 
scats said:
Did some long reining tonight, I only taught her this at the weekend, and this was her second attempt, but she was a pro so she's clearly a quick learner.

Long reined in the manège, start, halt, that sort of thing. Couple of minor spooks, she still is wary of the trailers parked at one end but didn't do anything stupid at all. Lunged off the long reins for a bit, bit wary of the line behind her, but settled within seconds and did some trot work. Then to finish, we long reined out of the school and round the lane- she was a bit blowy but actually quite bold considering. Really positive step today so I'm pleased.
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Nice one Scats. Keep on going!

Also, thanks for being one of the VERY few that can actually spell and use MANÈGE!! Yay!
 
Rowreach said:
I had a young horse who had a massive overreaction to an external noise when we were in the arena. I came off, he was completely traumatised, and I had the same problem as you are having afterwards. So I stopped riding in the arena for a bit, took him out and about, lots of gentle hacks exploring stuff and getting him "re-chilled". After a while he was fine going back into the arena. He ended up being the sweetest bravest horse ever.
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I think this is the way to go. As you said she hasnt had alot of schooling and you previously rode her comfortably in a windy field. Go back to what she is use to and comfortable and get your confidence back in her. Go out hacking (in hand first and then under saddle) till you believe in her again. She needs a firm leader and currently you are not giving her any confidence.
 
fawaz said:
I think this is the way to go. As you said she hasnt had alot of schooling and you previously rode her comfortably in a windy field. Go back to what she is use to and comfortable and get your confidence back in her. Go out hacking (in hand first and then under saddle) till you believe in her again. She needs a firm leader and currently you are not giving her any confidence.
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Thank you. I've given myself a kick up the backside this week. I'm still recovering from surgery so may be a few more days til im back on board, but I'm already feeling more of a bond forming with her. She's chilled out in the stable too, we've gone from her first coming in and being a bit of a whirling dervish, firing poo at the walls, to just nice and chilled. I do think she may have been wormy also, as we've just finished the panacur 5 day.

Aim for the weekend is either in-hand hack if I'm still not right- I have developed an infection from surgery so feel a bit rubbish- or nab a friend to ride out with us a couple of times. We are very lucky to have on site fields to ride around so can do a good half hour hack here at home and still see enough to make it educational for her, although I'm not looking forward to her meeting our resident pheasant for the first time haha!
 
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