flohelf
Well-Known Member
Rider Eleanor Brennan and her horse Mister Barnabus were both fatally injured yesterday on the Ocala 2* XC in Florida.
My thoughts to their closed ones...
My thoughts to their closed ones...
Another fatal accident in eventing...
- Thread starter flohelf
- Start date
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
Oh my god.
Blood just run cold, have many connections with her.
Thoughts to everyone that knew her, I think several people on the forum knew her rtoo
Blood just run cold, have many connections with her.
Thoughts to everyone that knew her, I think several people on the forum knew her rtoo
seza
Well-Known Member
This is dreadful news. I met Eleanor several times as my son was at Hartpury the same time as she was there. She was a lovely girl and spend some time eventing in the UK after leaving Hartpury. She took her top horse round Badminton when she was over here when I think she was only 18.
A very sad time for all who knew her. My thoughts go out to her family at this time.
A very sad time for all who knew her. My thoughts go out to her family at this time.
Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
Oh no
Thoughts with family and friends
Thoughts with family and friends
flohelf
Well-Known Member
So sorry...I just found out she was British although competing a lot in US.
Extending my thoughts to all the forum members who knew her.
Extending my thoughts to all the forum members who knew her.
I_A_P
Well-Known Member
How absoultely awful
Reashi
Well-Known Member
OMG she was working on the same yard as my sisters for months this year. She was a lovely girl. really bubbly and always made me feel welcome. This is shocking, I can't believe it
.
seabiscuit
Well-Known Member
OMG. I saw her several times eventing. Lovely girl. Didnt she go round Badminton when she was just 18?
How awful, truely shocked.
Blackeventer was it a rotational fall?
They really HAVE to make every single fence a frangible one now.
How awful, truely shocked.
Blackeventer was it a rotational fall?
They really HAVE to make every single fence a frangible one now.
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
OMG. I saw her several times eventing. Lovely girl. Didnt she go round Badminton when she was just 18?
How awful, truely shocked.
Blackeventer was it a rotational fall?
They really HAVE to make every single fence a frangible one now.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was the 2nd to last, a decent sized table. Apparently they got the striding a bit wrong and he couldnt get his front legs out the way (they may have been travelling at some speed) Sounds like he nose dived and broke his neck and rolled on her but thats just speculation.
OMG. I saw her several times eventing. Lovely girl. Didnt she go round Badminton when she was just 18?
How awful, truely shocked.
Blackeventer was it a rotational fall?
They really HAVE to make every single fence a frangible one now.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was the 2nd to last, a decent sized table. Apparently they got the striding a bit wrong and he couldnt get his front legs out the way (they may have been travelling at some speed) Sounds like he nose dived and broke his neck and rolled on her but thats just speculation.
seza
Well-Known Member
Apparently it was a gate and Barney died instantly and Eleanor later in hospital. Truly tragic.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
How tragic!!! i feel very cold now!
Thought go out to her family and friends.
Eventing seems to be going off the scale at the mo. for killing people.. something isn't right.
Thought go out to her family and friends.
Eventing seems to be going off the scale at the mo. for killing people.. something isn't right.
Puppy
Well-Known Member
Gosh that's given me shivers.
How abosolutely awful. Tragic news. My thoughts to her family and friends. RIP.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Gosh that's given me shivers.
How abosolutely awful. Tragic news. My thoughts to her family and friends. RIP.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto. How awful. Mdm this is worse than jockey fatalities and didn't used to happen...what has changed to cause this?
Gosh that's given me shivers.
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Ditto. How awful. Mdm this is worse than jockey fatalities and didn't used to happen...what has changed to cause this?
Patches
Well-Known Member
Have the rise in deaths eventing coincided with the introduction of the short format?
Is the fitness of event horses compromised now they only need to do the actual jumping phase. Meaning, are some riders guilty of assuming they don't need to be as fit now, which is resulting in horses tiring during the course?
Alternative theory. Are some horses now too fit to just do the short format and riders are finding them harder to control and more gung-ho cross country?
It's another very sad day for eventing. How many deaths is that this year?
Sincere condolences to Eleanor's family and friends. She was only 21.
Is the fitness of event horses compromised now they only need to do the actual jumping phase. Meaning, are some riders guilty of assuming they don't need to be as fit now, which is resulting in horses tiring during the course?
Alternative theory. Are some horses now too fit to just do the short format and riders are finding them harder to control and more gung-ho cross country?
It's another very sad day for eventing. How many deaths is that this year?
Sincere condolences to Eleanor's family and friends. She was only 21.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Mdm this is worse than jockey fatalities and didn't used to happen...what has changed to cause this?
[/ QUOTE ]
well you heardly ever hear of jockey fatalities, so can't really compair to it..
It can't have anything to do with the short format, as i'm sure you'll remember all the deaths of 1999, when long format was still in place..
I don't think it has anything to do with the fitness of the horses, esp. not the too fit comment, as riding at that level there's no question of not being in control.
It could have somthing to do with not being fit enough, but having not see it (or any of the others) i can't comment.
I think it's a combination of the way horses are trained now, and the way courses are built..
no one makes mistakes any more.
The emphasis (sp?) is far more on dressage than it ever has been with talk of the dressage being up'd yet again (4 time changes being introduced at 4* level)...
Some people have the theory (B Hoy being one of them) that a high level of dressage training helps with the XC.. i for one think that's a load of bollocks!! I'm lucky enough to be riding one of the best XC horses around, and he also happens to be one of the worst dressage horses around!
They need to be cat like and to always be thinking for themselfs.. i can't help but think that the higher the standard of dressage, the more the horse stops thinking for himself...
Wasn't it Lucinda Green (one of the best XC riders of all time) who a couple of years ago wanted to set up a competition without dressage all together.
Mdm this is worse than jockey fatalities and didn't used to happen...what has changed to cause this?
[/ QUOTE ]
well you heardly ever hear of jockey fatalities, so can't really compair to it..
It can't have anything to do with the short format, as i'm sure you'll remember all the deaths of 1999, when long format was still in place..
I don't think it has anything to do with the fitness of the horses, esp. not the too fit comment, as riding at that level there's no question of not being in control.
It could have somthing to do with not being fit enough, but having not see it (or any of the others) i can't comment.
I think it's a combination of the way horses are trained now, and the way courses are built..
no one makes mistakes any more.
The emphasis (sp?) is far more on dressage than it ever has been with talk of the dressage being up'd yet again (4 time changes being introduced at 4* level)...
Some people have the theory (B Hoy being one of them) that a high level of dressage training helps with the XC.. i for one think that's a load of bollocks!! I'm lucky enough to be riding one of the best XC horses around, and he also happens to be one of the worst dressage horses around!
They need to be cat like and to always be thinking for themselfs.. i can't help but think that the higher the standard of dressage, the more the horse stops thinking for himself...
Wasn't it Lucinda Green (one of the best XC riders of all time) who a couple of years ago wanted to set up a competition without dressage all together.
Patches
Well-Known Member
Has there been a shift in the types of horses used now that dressage features so highly?
Edited to add: I'm just brainstorming. I have absolutely no experience of eventing, apart from watching it on the tv.
Edited to add: I'm just brainstorming. I have absolutely no experience of eventing, apart from watching it on the tv.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
Very sad news.
Condolences to her friends and family.
S
Condolences to her friends and family.
S
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
That is so tragic, condolences to her family and friends.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Has there been a shift in the types of horses used now that dressage features so highly?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes there has slightly, but i don't think the type of horse eventing now has anything to do with it, just the way they are triained.
Has there been a shift in the types of horses used now that dressage features so highly?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes there has slightly, but i don't think the type of horse eventing now has anything to do with it, just the way they are triained.
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
God how sad - thoughts go out to all who knew her.
lifeslemons
Well-Known Member
OMG... don't know what to say. I met her a lot as she lived two houses down from me when she was based over here with Mark Philips at Aston in 05. She was v v talented, and indeed went round Badminton when she had only just turned 18. The horse she was riding in this accident was produced by Ruth Edge, I think
[ QUOTE ]
Have the rise in deaths eventing coincided with the introduction of the short format?
[/ QUOTE ]
Bear in mind 1999 - when there were 5 deaths in 4 months in this country. That was before anyone had ever even considered removing the 'chase.
Saw someone mentioned Lucinda Green - I believe it was her that suggested as the standard of dressage increases, thus horses become more and more trained, submissive and reliant on the rider. Therefore they loose their natural instinct and 'tiger' attitude across country. When the rider gets it wrong, they lack their own ability, braveness and agility to sort it out themselves. Hence why Lucinda is against the current proposal to introduce tempi-changes at 4*
[ QUOTE ]
Have the rise in deaths eventing coincided with the introduction of the short format?
[/ QUOTE ]
Bear in mind 1999 - when there were 5 deaths in 4 months in this country. That was before anyone had ever even considered removing the 'chase.
Saw someone mentioned Lucinda Green - I believe it was her that suggested as the standard of dressage increases, thus horses become more and more trained, submissive and reliant on the rider. Therefore they loose their natural instinct and 'tiger' attitude across country. When the rider gets it wrong, they lack their own ability, braveness and agility to sort it out themselves. Hence why Lucinda is against the current proposal to introduce tempi-changes at 4*
Thistle
Well-Known Member
How sad. RIP horse and rider.
RichardRider
Well-Known Member
...thoughts and prayers...(no words)
Fletch
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Therefore they loose their natural instinct and 'tiger' attitude across country. When the rider gets it wrong, they lack their own ability, braveness and agility to sort it out themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
So would you also say that not hunting these horses would also have something to do with them not being able to find their '5th' leg? I have no idea, just speculating.
Therefore they loose their natural instinct and 'tiger' attitude across country. When the rider gets it wrong, they lack their own ability, braveness and agility to sort it out themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
So would you also say that not hunting these horses would also have something to do with them not being able to find their '5th' leg? I have no idea, just speculating.
little_pink_piggies
Well-Known Member
My mother drove the doctor around the xc at badminton this year, so got invited to the thank you party afterwards where she was talking to the older one of the willis bros. who said that if a fence drops 5cm on impact then rotational falls could be avoided altogether???
terribly sad, thoughts are with close ones... rip xx
terribly sad, thoughts are with close ones... rip xx
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
My mother drove the doctor around the xc at badminton this year, so got invited to the thank you party afterwards where she was talking to the older one of the willis bros. who said that if a fence drops 5cm on impact then rotational falls could be avoided altogether???
terribly sad, thoughts are with close ones... rip xx
[/ QUOTE ]
Very interesting.. and while i don't claim to know anywhere near as much as the Willis Bros, if it was that simple surely all fences would be designed that way??? and if it is that simple, then questions should be asked as to why they're not?
I Don't think it is that simple tho, due to the fact that in the 'old days' you hardly ever heard of a death, and there was no such thing as the f.pin then...
My theory is still with LG on the dressage.
My mother drove the doctor around the xc at badminton this year, so got invited to the thank you party afterwards where she was talking to the older one of the willis bros. who said that if a fence drops 5cm on impact then rotational falls could be avoided altogether???
terribly sad, thoughts are with close ones... rip xx
[/ QUOTE ]
Very interesting.. and while i don't claim to know anywhere near as much as the Willis Bros, if it was that simple surely all fences would be designed that way??? and if it is that simple, then questions should be asked as to why they're not?
I Don't think it is that simple tho, due to the fact that in the 'old days' you hardly ever heard of a death, and there was no such thing as the f.pin then...
My theory is still with LG on the dressage.
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
Analysing this years fatalities you'd be hard pushed to pin it down on one single factor.
Firstly, most of the deaths have not been at the top level- they've been at novice/intermediate level (one at 3* I think)
Secondly, almost all of the horses involved have been experienced horses with plenty of mileage at that level
Thirdly, falls often havent been at technical fences, they've been at fences which riders would normally count as straightforward
I think these factors maybe lead to a level of complacency. The attitude of 'it's just a pheasant feeder' and hence a lack of proper setting up for the fence. Timing has got tighter, to win you have to go fast. Falls happen more often at faster speeds, especially the type of falls where people are killed- the horse cant snap up in front quick enough and the momentum plummets them forward.
The falls we saw a few years ago were mainly rotational falls. These have largely been prevented with the use of frangible pins and rotational falls tend to happen at the more technical fences and at slower speeds. Riders are now more aware of the causes and dangers of these falls so I think they have adjusted their riding accordingly and course designers have backed off somewhat in the technicality of their courses.
Firstly, most of the deaths have not been at the top level- they've been at novice/intermediate level (one at 3* I think)
Secondly, almost all of the horses involved have been experienced horses with plenty of mileage at that level
Thirdly, falls often havent been at technical fences, they've been at fences which riders would normally count as straightforward
I think these factors maybe lead to a level of complacency. The attitude of 'it's just a pheasant feeder' and hence a lack of proper setting up for the fence. Timing has got tighter, to win you have to go fast. Falls happen more often at faster speeds, especially the type of falls where people are killed- the horse cant snap up in front quick enough and the momentum plummets them forward.
The falls we saw a few years ago were mainly rotational falls. These have largely been prevented with the use of frangible pins and rotational falls tend to happen at the more technical fences and at slower speeds. Riders are now more aware of the causes and dangers of these falls so I think they have adjusted their riding accordingly and course designers have backed off somewhat in the technicality of their courses.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Terrible news poor girl.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I also think riders are sometimes complacent - look at how badly ridden the half coffin was at Burghley. Sometimes it was horrific watching the speeds the creme de la creme was going through that fence with horses having to dig themselves out of trouble.
little_pink_piggies
Well-Known Member
yeah, i wasn't questioning you just saying their view... personally I can't see that either, otherwise like you say it would have been being done for all events... Think you're right with the dressage, its not necessarily how well theyre schooled its how they think (but i can sort of see that if you have a "bad" dressage horse that is stiff on the flat/through shoulders as opposed to having a shorter attention span/not being blessed with the worlds greatest movement it can be a disadvantage in those situations?)