Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
*Bows* But it's not all over yet!
Another Question about the RAW diet
- Thread starter DaisyDuke
- Start date
C1airey
Well-Known Member
Hello!
Been HHO lurker for a while and have just found this thread - apologies if this has been covered above, my laptop died part-way through and I may have missed some posts in the middle... We recently got a JRX puppy who's always been fed raw but I'm struggling a bit. All the information for feeding quantities seem to be for big, adult dogs. I keep finding conflicting advice about whether to feed him 3% or 10% of predicted adult weight. Either way, it feels like at the moment, he's not eating enough or enough variety.
Puppy has started being rather fussy. If one of the cats did this, I'd let them get hungry enough to eat whatever I put in front of them. I'm not quite brave enough to do this with a puppy though. Am I just being soft? He flat-out refuses all chicken and isn't much better with turkey, lamb or rabbit. The only thing he will eat is tripe and occasionally beef mince. While I'm glad there's something he definitely will eat, the smell of tripe first thing in the morning is putting a serious strain on my own digestive tract...
Also, out of interest, has anyone gone down the raw food route with their cat?
Been HHO lurker for a while and have just found this thread - apologies if this has been covered above, my laptop died part-way through and I may have missed some posts in the middle... We recently got a JRX puppy who's always been fed raw but I'm struggling a bit. All the information for feeding quantities seem to be for big, adult dogs. I keep finding conflicting advice about whether to feed him 3% or 10% of predicted adult weight. Either way, it feels like at the moment, he's not eating enough or enough variety.
Puppy has started being rather fussy. If one of the cats did this, I'd let them get hungry enough to eat whatever I put in front of them. I'm not quite brave enough to do this with a puppy though. Am I just being soft? He flat-out refuses all chicken and isn't much better with turkey, lamb or rabbit. The only thing he will eat is tripe and occasionally beef mince. While I'm glad there's something he definitely will eat, the smell of tripe first thing in the morning is putting a serious strain on my own digestive tract...
Also, out of interest, has anyone gone down the raw food route with their cat?
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
10% of projected adult weight, dropping to 3% or more or less when adult. Try a variety and only a tiny bit at a time to tempt him. I find shoving salmon oil on (try Ouron-cheapest I can find and recommended by someone else on here) helps no end with making them eat new food and adding weight. Up the amount of whatever he will eat.
I know people who feed their cats raw, but I think it's more fish based, I think.
I know people who feed their cats raw, but I think it's more fish based, I think.
C1airey
Well-Known Member
Erm... buttons, socks, slugs, snails (mmm, crunchy!), shredded paper, cardboard boxes, cat litter, grass, OH's socks (only the smelly ones)... Frankly, anything will go down the hatch except food!
But seriously, thanks for this, esp. the salmon oil hint. Having now read a bit about it, maybe it will also solve his slight itchiness?
Seeing as I have a freezer full of food the dog won't eat, it would make sense to put the cats on raw. I assume it's the same for cats re: not mixing kibble and meat? Happily, the cats love chicken, lamb, beef, rabbit, etc. They both hate fish *sigh*
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Watch out for slugs and snails, lumgworm is on the rise. Make sure you worm with something that covers lungworm!
Danny Vet
Member
Hi DaisyDuke,
Raw food diets in general are a bad idea. Some people get away with it and many dogs cope okay, but dogs are prone to getting gut infections from meat the same way humans are. It sounds natural but freshly killed meat that wolves would eat haven't been through an abattoir and sat on a supermarket shelf for several days. Dogs can pick up Salmonella and E. coli infections as humans would if they ate raw meat. Bones can get stuck in the back of the throat or perforate gut and require surgery to remove, this is really common. Obviously when asking a question about raw food diets the type of people who feed it are going to be very anti-dog food companies. It is true that you shouldn't buy the cheapest supermarket brand dog food as that is like feeding junk food to your children all the time. However, a good quality COMPLETE diet from a good company like Hills, Royal Canin, James Wellbeloved and others are very good quality ingredients, a balanced diet and good for their teeth. Veterinary nutritionists and scientists spend many years and millions of pounds developing these diets, it would be very difficult to source the variety of ingredients to give a balanced diet like this. Also, it saves you having to cook something different for your dog every day, just open the bag and it's done!
Raw food diets in general are a bad idea. Some people get away with it and many dogs cope okay, but dogs are prone to getting gut infections from meat the same way humans are. It sounds natural but freshly killed meat that wolves would eat haven't been through an abattoir and sat on a supermarket shelf for several days. Dogs can pick up Salmonella and E. coli infections as humans would if they ate raw meat. Bones can get stuck in the back of the throat or perforate gut and require surgery to remove, this is really common. Obviously when asking a question about raw food diets the type of people who feed it are going to be very anti-dog food companies. It is true that you shouldn't buy the cheapest supermarket brand dog food as that is like feeding junk food to your children all the time. However, a good quality COMPLETE diet from a good company like Hills, Royal Canin, James Wellbeloved and others are very good quality ingredients, a balanced diet and good for their teeth. Veterinary nutritionists and scientists spend many years and millions of pounds developing these diets, it would be very difficult to source the variety of ingredients to give a balanced diet like this. Also, it saves you having to cook something different for your dog every day, just open the bag and it's done!
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Your entire post seems to be absolute nonsense, but quite apart from that, you dont cook raw food. Even if you did, feeding dry food just because you only have to open a bag isnt really the way you should think about it. Its also incredibly easy to source. I get a delivery once a month, direct to my door that is usually made up of 8 or 10 different meat types. The dry food you mention doesn't contain that, the actual meat content is tiny
C1airey
Well-Known Member
Or, just open the fridge. You were headed that way anyway for your own tea...
In other news, puppy back to normal, meals inhaled in blink of an eye, food bowl left so clean it squeaks. ☺️
blackcob
🖖
Okay, I'll bite.
Here are the ingredients of a premium branded dry diet sold by my veterinary practice:
Maize, poultry meat meal (chicken min. 31%), rice, cellulose, animal fat, digest, pea bran meal, dried whole egg, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, flaxseed, salt, dicalcium phosphate.
Here is what my dogs have been fed in the last two weeks:
Chicken, lamb, beef, pork, beef tripe, oily fish, venison, duck, rabbit, pheasant, heart/liver/kidney/trachea (of various creatures), whole eggs, peas, carrots, blackberry, apple, blueberry, swede, potatoes, rice. All various combinations of minced, bone in/out, pieces on the bone, whole carcass, frozen, chilled, warmed/cooked, tinned.
What was your point about variety?!
Also I have seen some really grotty dentals this week on pets fed premium dry veterinary diets so ner, have some anecdata.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Surely not a real vet?! Although advocating Hills, Royal Canin etc, I wouldn't be amazed. Both brands are composed of remnants, IMO. I know vets only receive about half a day's training on nutrition for all species. Sorry, but many years and many people have gone the raw route because their pets seem to benefit.
The poster did realise this thread is for those who wish to feed raw, surely? Ooh, let me link the dry food index so we can be amazed at the loveliness of the 'foods' mentioned! :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?570172-The-Dry-Dog-Food-Index
The poster did realise this thread is for those who wish to feed raw, surely? Ooh, let me link the dry food index so we can be amazed at the loveliness of the 'foods' mentioned! :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?570172-The-Dry-Dog-Food-Index
ribbons
Well-Known Member
My vet tried to suggest a complete food, preferably one sold by them.
Then wanted me to buy bottles of chicken flavoured water (at £8 a bottle of 500ml) so the dog would drink more. I pointed out that as she had a raw diet she didn't need the same amount of fluid as the dry kibble fed dog and she was drinking plenty enough.
They also tried to tell me slugs and snails suffered from lung worm, hence the danger.
After explaining to them that lung worm was CARRIED by slugs and snails, mostly picked up from fox poo, I moved vets.
Sadly the days of vets being primarily the healer of animals is long gone. We are now dealing with first and foremost a business. Its hard work not being able to take your vets word as fact anymore. You have to try to work through the sales pitch to work out what is necessary and what is not.
Thankfully my current vet understands I only want them to treat injury or illness.
I don't need chicken water or teeth hygiene products. Mainly because my dog eats a natural diet, a raw one.
Then wanted me to buy bottles of chicken flavoured water (at £8 a bottle of 500ml) so the dog would drink more. I pointed out that as she had a raw diet she didn't need the same amount of fluid as the dry kibble fed dog and she was drinking plenty enough.
They also tried to tell me slugs and snails suffered from lung worm, hence the danger.
After explaining to them that lung worm was CARRIED by slugs and snails, mostly picked up from fox poo, I moved vets.
Sadly the days of vets being primarily the healer of animals is long gone. We are now dealing with first and foremost a business. Its hard work not being able to take your vets word as fact anymore. You have to try to work through the sales pitch to work out what is necessary and what is not.
Thankfully my current vet understands I only want them to treat injury or illness.
I don't need chicken water or teeth hygiene products. Mainly because my dog eats a natural diet, a raw one.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
What the devil is chicken water?!
ribbons
Well-Known Member
You may well ask.
Its chicken flavoured water with lots of nutrients and electrolytes as well apparently.
It would seem after surviving for thousands of years on anything from sparkling stream water to filthy ditch water, our dogs now have a real need for this stuff !!!
More expensive unnatural stuff they just don't need, but people are being talked into buying it.
Now I can live with the urge to make money from gullible owners by the likes of pets at home, but I resent my vet, as a proffessional animal medic, trying to treat me as a fool.
Its chicken flavoured water with lots of nutrients and electrolytes as well apparently.
It would seem after surviving for thousands of years on anything from sparkling stream water to filthy ditch water, our dogs now have a real need for this stuff !!!
More expensive unnatural stuff they just don't need, but people are being talked into buying it.
Now I can live with the urge to make money from gullible owners by the likes of pets at home, but I resent my vet, as a proffessional animal medic, trying to treat me as a fool.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
What do raw feeders give as treats? I'm currently giving pizzles, they last a while, aren't greasy and are natural. It took the dogs a while to be happy with them after tasty greasy pig ears, but now they dance for treat time again!
Ilovemywelshie
Well-Known Member
Just thought id add to thread as stubbled across this whilst searching for pros and cons of raw. It's only day two of my switch from skinners to raw.
I have two chihuhuhas and a wiemeraner. My wiemeraner was pooing so much on skinners and often it was loose, I tried many different dried foods from very expensive to very cheap nothing seemed to settle well with her.
My once fussy chi's are wolfing down their raw and within one feed my wiemeraners tummy has settled (thought it was going to be initial rocket bum) they all seem more relaxed in themselves, drinking less water therefore not constantly out for the toilet.
I really am amazed so far at what a change it's had to to them. I realise it's only early days but I wish id started from puppy's and I am frustrated with myself that I didn't do this before as surely it's obvious that natural is the most healthy way to go.
I will say you need to be more organised as a lot of what i have read says variety is the key. I just seperate meals into the freezer and defrost or fridge them the night before. Raw makes you think what actually does go in to 'complete' dog food.
Im waiting for a delivery but needed food for 3 days for 3 dogs I went to the butchers and can feed off cuts and bone for £1.80. I think raw will work out cheaper for lots of people when buying in bulk.
Thanks for all the really useful information on this thread as there is soo much online.
I have two chihuhuhas and a wiemeraner. My wiemeraner was pooing so much on skinners and often it was loose, I tried many different dried foods from very expensive to very cheap nothing seemed to settle well with her.
My once fussy chi's are wolfing down their raw and within one feed my wiemeraners tummy has settled (thought it was going to be initial rocket bum) they all seem more relaxed in themselves, drinking less water therefore not constantly out for the toilet.
I really am amazed so far at what a change it's had to to them. I realise it's only early days but I wish id started from puppy's and I am frustrated with myself that I didn't do this before as surely it's obvious that natural is the most healthy way to go.
I will say you need to be more organised as a lot of what i have read says variety is the key. I just seperate meals into the freezer and defrost or fridge them the night before. Raw makes you think what actually does go in to 'complete' dog food.
Im waiting for a delivery but needed food for 3 days for 3 dogs I went to the butchers and can feed off cuts and bone for £1.80. I think raw will work out cheaper for lots of people when buying in bulk.
Thanks for all the really useful information on this thread as there is soo much online.
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
Took the plunge this week with the pup - totally raw diet, all Natural Instinct with play bones to chew on in the evening. Very happy puppy and he had no issues at all eating any of it with is dodgy palate. I took him into the NI shop so they could see him and got some advice on bones so we have a list of things to try so we can identify what he can and cant have to eat. He's definitely put weight on this week, he's calmer, has healthy poos and the shine off him is reflective. OH also popped into local butchers who he made friends with and got a bag of bones for a quid - result!
Older dog has been helping finish off the Forthglade we had left and will swap to 100% raw this weekend.
Happy dogs, happy humans.
Older dog has been helping finish off the Forthglade we had left and will swap to 100% raw this weekend.
Happy dogs, happy humans.
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Whoever asked about cats, mine is raw fed. It took longer to swap him over as an adult than it took with the dogs, but hes away now. He doesnt get much fish though! He gets lots of heart, chicken, turkey, lamb, beef etc. He still after a year wont eat whole wings etc, so we are careful to make sure he gets enough complete mince to balance his diet. He looks and feels amazing!
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Fab news about the pup, Scarlett! Might be worth having a look for a supplier depending on how much he will be eating. I've got a freezer full!
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
Thank you, I'm so pleased. I was really worried that his palate/jaw probs would limit what he could eat but he's doing really well! He's got an anti -gulp bowl and I squash the meat in with some frozen veg on the top which seems to help slow him down otherwise he can get food in his nose. He's had a couple of simple bones this week with no problems and devoured a turkey neck tonight as part of his dinner. Going to get some lamb ribs this week as our next thing to try. Am oddly excited by it all.
Older dog had a raw dinner tonight too, he's super food sensitive so I'm looking forward to seeing if we see any changes. He had bones this week and really seemed to enjoy the turkey neck at dinner.
Our freezer is tiny so going to buy weekly for now while we try stuff and see how they go, already thinking about where we could fit in a freezer just for the dogs dinners.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
I bought a huge freezer which had to go in the shed :redface3: Go easy on the other dog, I went a bit mad and threw everything all at once at my lot. Their cage was shocking some mornings! I slowed down and did one protein at a time after that, much nicer all round!
Scarlett
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I think we could fit a freezer in, certainly sounds like buying in bulk could save us quite a bit of cash so would be worth it
Other dog had been having raw food breakfast for the last 3 weeks, replacing breakfast kibble, so hoping he'll swap to it completely easily.
Other dog had been having raw food breakfast for the last 3 weeks, replacing breakfast kibble, so hoping he'll swap to it completely easily.
SadKen
Well-Known Member
I've just given my two their first actual bone each. Neither have ever had a bone before. I'm not going to fib; I'm on tenterhooks watching them chewing in case the bone splinters, and I've told OH to keep an eye on tomorrow's poo.
They have had a knuckle bone each from pets at home. I'm sure that's not ideal but I wanted to see how they would do. They both seem exceedingly pleased, and they've been chewing for an hour or so. The bones smell and there are bits all over the rug. Good job I love those dogs.
My elder gsd rarely ever chews anything. I've noticed a bit of blood from his gums which I presume is similar to when I first began flossing and had blood from the shifted plaque on the floss?
They have had a knuckle bone each from pets at home. I'm sure that's not ideal but I wanted to see how they would do. They both seem exceedingly pleased, and they've been chewing for an hour or so. The bones smell and there are bits all over the rug. Good job I love those dogs.
My elder gsd rarely ever chews anything. I've noticed a bit of blood from his gums which I presume is similar to when I first began flossing and had blood from the shifted plaque on the floss?
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
A smoked or cooked bone? Avoid like the plague. Go raw, get chicken wings, pork ribs, lamb breast.
Avoid like the plague. Go raw, get chicken wings, pork ribs, lamb breast.Scarlett
Well-Known Member
As I read this my two are crunching through a couple of beef ribs. We've had no problem with the introduction of bones at all. Quite the opposite infact. We started with the frozen, packaged ones from Natures Menu and Natural Instinct and are making friends with the local butcher.
Ours started with some chicken wings and progressed to lamb spines, their absolute favourite.
Ours started with some chicken wings and progressed to lamb spines, their absolute favourite.
0310Star
Well-Known Member
I have a 14 week old Rottweiler pup who has been on the raw diet for just over a week now and we are very happy with the results so far.
She is having the Durham Animal Feeds minced 1lb packs which seem to be going down well. I have started on Turkey (with bone), Chicken and Tripe (with bone), and Tripe (without bone). We are going by 5% of her current weight per day.
I am just curious about what I should be adding in with regards to bones/offal?
Any info would be great
She is having the Durham Animal Feeds minced 1lb packs which seem to be going down well. I have started on Turkey (with bone), Chicken and Tripe (with bone), and Tripe (without bone). We are going by 5% of her current weight per day.
I am just curious about what I should be adding in with regards to bones/offal?
Any info would be great
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Pork ribs, chicken wings, necks, small carcasses. Lamb breast and small non weight bearing bones.
0310Star
Well-Known Member
And would these make up a whole meal at the right weight or would they just be like treats as such?
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
Up to you. The ratio is 80:10:10, meat, bone, offal. This can be balanced over a week as opposed to a day, so you can feed meaty bones for a meal, give as treats, whatever you like. I might give a pig's trotter as tea, they see it as a treat and take it into the garden. Another meal might be chicken necks plus a small lump of liver, some sprats and a raw egg.
Once you've got the hang of it, you can throw whatever you fancy in the bowl.
Winters100
Well-Known Member
The thing you have to remember about the raw food diet is that there IS a risk in feeding bones to dogs. I am not necessarily saying don't do it, for some dogs it may be the best thing, but you do need to be aware of the risks. Of course wild dogs would eat bones, claws etc, but you have to remember that in the wild dogs are not castrated or spayed, so it is natural that they need to die off at a higher rate than dogs kept as pets. Personally having seen a dog die a very painful death from being fed chicken carcass I would not do it, but as I said there are other health benefits so for some it is the right decision. Good luck!
aintgotnohay
Well-Known Member
its only cooked bones u shouldnt feed to dogs feeding RAW chicken carcass is fine.i feed my poodles raw chicken wings,quarters etc no problems.never feed cooked chicken to a dog