Another saddle fit q. More rider related!

[poiuytrewq]

I have a bad hip/back it’s always been a problem but more recently it had got better, I wasn’t noticing it in everything I ever did.
Riding wise, when it’s bad I feel really unstable. My left hip feels to tight it wouldn’t take a lot to get me off and the knowledge of that is pretty horrible! I also don’t like to ride for long or sadly go fast! It gets too achy.
However I am wondering if certain saddles are making it worse/helping and if anyone more knowledgable could identlfy why/what.
Old saddle is an ideal Imapala monoflap. Love it and find it really comfortable.
A horse I ride has a WOW which is way too big for me but not too uncomfortable.
Really struggling with my own new (2nd hand fitted) Albion K2
My left hip hurts, my whole leg started to ache. My ankle feels a bit unstable and I feel unlevel, like my left stirrup is higher. (It’s not)
Ideally I’d love to try the Ideal on new horse and see if I still feel terrible, it doesn’t fit him brilliantly, we did try it before buying the Albion.
A GFS, Kent and Masters also give me the same bad ride.
So is there anything that jumps out? I wondered if someone can spot similarities in the good and bad brands? ??

 

[JGC]

I have a Stubben Genesis Spezial that really works for me, a Childeric DSG that is not comfortable (massive kneeblocks, going to get the saddle fitter out in summer when my mare has hopefully put on some weight to see if she'll fit something else), my instructor's Butet Practice is grand, but I had to ride a friend's horse for a week in a Wintec Isabella and found it excruciating!

 

[spacefaer]

I'm guessing it'll depend on the shape of the tree and the width of the twist. And also, the positioning of the stirrup bars.

They'll all alter your angles slightly.

The only wow saddle I've ridden in had a really wide twist and it crucified me. I had a close contact wintec jump (briefly!) and it gave me awful chafing after just one hack - it had a wide twist and flatter seat. However I can spend all day in my ancient Siegfried with no issues

 

[milliepops]

it's all so personal and there are so many variables, i find Wows comfortable but find albions and ideals are both too wide. Wintecs cut me in half and i always feel out of balance in TG/K&M etc.
I guess the good thing is knowing you have one saddle you find comfortable, it's not like you just can't cope with riding physically.

any chance of buying another impala for the horse? might be the simplest option though no guarantees that the balance will be identical even when fitted. there seem to be a few around second hand though.

 

[SEL]

I've got a heritage on the pony that kills my lower back. I'm going to have to sell it at a huge loss. Both Ideal saddles though suit me fine - sadly neither is 100% on the pony

I can't quite work out what is wrong with the one that hurts my back. I took away my stirrups and could still feel it annoyingly.

 

[sbloom]

Every saddle is different, and every seat size is different. Look at the relationship between the widest point, the stirrup bars and the narrowest feeling point underneath in the channel, somewhere around, or behind the bars. See if you can find which combo suits best, though flap cut will also have an effect, as well as the shape of each tree and how the seat is put on, but those three factors are the bones of the saddle.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I've got a heritage on the pony that kills my lower back. I'm going to have to sell it at a huge loss. Both Ideal saddles though suit me fine - sadly neither is 100% on the pony

I can't quite work out what is wrong with the one that hurts my back. I took away my stirrups and could still feel it annoyingly.

Have you ever tried a seat saver? I had a saddle years ago which fitted the horse beautifully but my back felt like it was twisting tighter with every step. A gel seat saver really helped with that.
It’s seriously annoying isn’t it!

 

[sbloom]

If anyone has a photo of them riding in a saddle that causes them pain I may be able to help, needs to be clear and properly side-on. It's only rarely about just block placement @SEL so will have the same issues without stirrups.

Seat savers mostly make twists slightly wider, you can also try pushing small bits of yoga mat up under the skirts of the saddle, behind the bars so they're where your thighs fit, as a quick fix for some issues. If you need a narrower twist (not anywhere near as many people as you might think) then the HM Hip Saver is the only thing I know of that helps some people, not all.

If you have compression issues up your spine then an impact protection pad (Invictus better for most than Thinline, but the latter is a good pad) may help.

 

[poiuytrewq]

it's all so personal and there are so many variables, i find Wows comfortable but find albions and ideals are both too wide. Wintecs cut me in half and i always feel out of balance in TG/K&M etc.
I guess the good thing is knowing you have one saddle you find comfortable, it's not like you just can't cope with riding physically.

any chance of buying another impala for the horse? might be the simplest option though no guarantees that the balance will be identical even when fitted. there seem to be a few around second hand though.

The impala wearer is I think sadly retired so it’s redundant now anyway. I may just see if it can be adjusted at all.
Originally it was too wide for the horse, last check it was too narrow. (He dropped off a lot when I first got him)
I think I may just pad it up and go for a quick Roy d the village to see if it’s horse or saddle or what ?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Every saddle is different, and every seat size is different. Look at the relationship between the widest point, the stirrup bars and the narrowest feeling point underneath in the channel, somewhere around, or behind the bars. See if you can find which combo suits best, though flap cut will also have an effect, as well as the shape of each tree and how the seat is put on, but those three factors are the bones of the saddle.

Interesting thank you. I’ll do that and see if I can see any similarities in good and bad ones!
I am more comfortable without stirrups but my hip would be too stiff to absorb movement so I’d probably bounce off ?‍

 

[poiuytrewq]

I will try and get someone to take a side on photo, maybe in both saddles.

 

[Auslander]

I had to get rid of my ALbion Revelation which fitted Alf beautifully, and was, I thought, my dream saddle, because it hurt my back/hips so much. Had him in a Wintec Isabell for a while, which he liked, and again, I didn't - but it was far better with a Heather Moffat seat saver on it.

Luckily, stumbled across an Informed Designs dressage saddle (Didn't even know they made saddles!) and it is supremely comfortable for me, and Alf really likes it. It's such a suck it and see game - this saddle lark!

 

[sbloom]

Luckily, stumbled across an Informed Designs dressage saddle (Didn't even know they made saddles!) and it is supremely comfortable for me, and Alf really likes it. It's such a suck it and see game - this saddle lark!

It's changing - a rider assessment to mapping the pelvis makes a whole world of difference, though almost all brands have yet to be categorised to enable selection for different riders. We can assess hip conformation in a general sense, enough to give a good starting point to try appropriate demos, but we are trying to line up training for fitters to be able to map the hips too.

Things are changing but my God it's slow and there's a ton of resistance.

 

[Auslander]

It's changing - a rider assessment to mapping the pelvis makes a whole world of difference, though almost all brands have yet to be categorised to enable selection for different riders. We can assess hip conformation in a general sense, enough to give a good starting point to try appropriate demos, but we are trying to line up training for fitters to be able to map the hips too.

Things are changing but my God it's slow and there's a ton of resistance.

It's great that things are moving in the right direction!

I was quite impressed at the work that Wow has put into the options you can have, although Wow weren't really for me. I did absolutely horrify a Wow fitter by referring to the comfort channel option as the "fanny gap". Poor woman

 

[sbloom]

It's great that things are moving in the right direction!

I was quite impressed at the work that Wow has put into the options you can have, although Wow weren't really for me. I did absolutely horrify a Wow fitter by referring to the comfort channel option as the "fanny gap". Poor woman

And knowing how many skirts I put shims under, that thigh gap that all Wow saddles have will be problematic for many. My learning and experience tells me to fit the bones, not curvy inner thighs! I've not seen the "fanny gap"!

 

[SEL]

Have you ever tried a seat saver? I had a saddle years ago which fitted the horse beautifully but my back felt like it was twisting tighter with every step. A gel seat saver really helped with that.
It’s seriously annoying isn’t it!

No but I will do. Saddle fits pony and she's happy so that's a cheaper option than sourcing saddle #6. I need to flog the rejects!

 

[SEL]

It's changing - a rider assessment to mapping the pelvis makes a whole world of difference, though almost all brands have yet to be categorised to enable selection for different riders. We can assess hip conformation in a general sense, enough to give a good starting point to try appropriate demos, but we are trying to line up training for fitters to be able to map the hips too.

Things are changing but my God it's slow and there's a ton of resistance.

My OH is an engineer and is totally bemused by my saddle collection. He can't understand why human and horse measurements can't be plugged into some sort of programme and ta da here's the saddle you need.

 

[poiuytrewq]

My OH is an engineer and is totally bemused by my saddle collection. He can't understand why human and horse measurements can't be plugged into some sort of programme and ta da here's the saddle you need.

He’s an engineer? Set him to it

 

[Nt9]

I had the same issue with the Albion ages ago, in hindsight the seat was too deep for me for a gp, I've just bought a new saddle and the K2 was an option again, still too deep for me.

 

[SEL]

He’s an engineer? Set him to it

Don't hold your breath - took me 4 years to get him to sort the outside light ?

 

[Jellymoon]

My OH is an engineer and is totally bemused by my saddle collection. He can't understand why human and horse measurements can't be plugged into some sort of programme and ta da here's the saddle you need.

Now there’s an invention crying out for a nerd to make it happen! Surely it could be done?! Then you could get the rider/saddle/horse all moving together and make adjustments…

 

[sbloom]

Every horse moves differently, and every saddle should allow for that.....then horses change shape from the beginning of a ride to the end, let alone from one year to the next. My OH is also an engineer, there are things that engineers can, and do, bring to saddles and saddle fitting, but the biggest intervention (Quantum saddles) led to them losing £1million!

 

[bouncing_ball]

Every horse moves differently, and every saddle should allow for that.....then horses change shape from the beginning of a ride to the end, let alone from one year to the next. My OH is also an engineer, there are things that engineers can, and do, bring to saddles and saddle fitting, but the biggest intervention (Quantum saddles) led to them losing £1million!

Isn’t this what Ipotane saddles are trying to do?

 

[sbloom]

I had the same issue with the Albion ages ago, in hindsight the seat was too deep for me for a gp, I've just bought a new saddle and the K2 was an option again, still too deep for me.

The depth of the seat is something that drives me nuts - it can jam the rider into position, feeling secure to some, but ultimately there is more leverage on the horses back under the cantle in most cases, you can adjust your position as you need to for flatwork, especially lateral work, and the cantle gets in the way for jumping. On a wooden tree it does mean it can feel softer, but if you understand that supporting the bones of the pelvis is critical then you can understand that a seat often feels softer when it's the right shape. And this is IF the fundamental seat shape is right for the rider...

Usually they have a fairly rear-set balance point, ie the widest point of the seat is a fair way back, so the leg may have a tendency to come forwards so....guess what...you need a bigger block. And this can compound the issues caused by a deep seat.

If it's wrong (much more common!) then being jammed in causes tension, too high a pommel can being flipping uncomfortable through painful, and either the pommel or the cantle can tip the pelvis out of it's neutral position which is where we're all best place to absorb movement, in all directions.

It's a new feeling to be in a flatter seat yet your pelvis is supported, and it can take some getting used to, some work on proprioception etc, but it will facilitate most riders to be better riders, using their "global" muscles less for stability, ie their movement muscles, not designed for the purpose, and much more tiring to use when it's not for their actual purpose.

Saddles like Albion are kind of solid, "blocky" saddles, the opposite of a French close contact style - not even getting on to fit for the horse but just using them as illustrations.

 

[sbloom]

Isn’t this what Ipotane saddles are trying to do?

Well all new saddles are usually trying to solve the equation of horse meet rider. Ipotane has some very clever innovations, some things I'm wondering "why on earth...", it will be interesting to see how they work once they're actually beyond this very early beta stage.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Well all new saddles are usually trying to solve the equation of horse meet rider. Ipotane has some very clever innovations, some things I'm wondering "why on earth...", it will be interesting to see how they work once they're actually beyond this very early beta stage.

Out of interest what area do you cover?