Anti bark collars

DREE......it must be wonderful to be so very perfect all of the time. not all dogs can be trained by food.....my lurcher would not touch any sort of treat as a reward, chicken, tuna, ham, you name it i tried it. please try and see that all dogs are different and when i am walking someone else's dog when they are ill and said dog is a large ruffian, i will use a choke collar as an aid to stop myself being dragged across the road and keep both of us safe.... you dont seem to live in the real world IMO, and yes your posts have been very patronising to those of us who have had well trained dogs all of our long lives...and compared to other dogs collies are very easy on the whole, cant understand why yours are not...
 
Clodagh said:
There's been an awful lot of vitriol directed at Dree though, she has never been personally rude to anyone, just rather arrogant perhaps.
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A bit more than arrogant Clodagh, I haven't used UI for a very long time, got fed up of pointy stick retaliation repeatedly........
(Same vein of posting on the WW's thread too, to anyone not agreeing to their point of view).
 
For goodness sake, this is ridiculous. I can't see that anyone is a troll. Everyone is allowed their own opinion. Yes I think some posters have commented just to get a reaction and yes I do feel that their are certain people here who are very opinionated and like to think they are experts.
dog training seems to be a very emotive subject. Personally I prefer a kinder approach. You don't have to use food for it to be positive. It Can be verbal praise, physical praise even a toy there is something every dog finds rewarding its just finding it.
I can't see the need for anyone to leave.
Just don't be intimidated by people who think that because they have posted on here for ever that they have the right to rule the roost.
They don't, this is a open forum and anyone can post what they like within reason.
 
exactly this sandstone 1, i also prefer kinder methods but there are many ways to train and we can all learn from each other, it is just irritating when one method is stated that it is the only method, without allowing for the difference in dog types , and assuming the rest of us are being cruel if we dont use a clicker and treats....
 
splashgirl45 said:
exactly this sandstone 1, i also prefer kinder methods but there are many ways to train and we can all learn from each other, it is just irritating when one method is stated that it is the only method, without allowing for the difference in dog types , and assuming the rest of us are being cruel if we dont use a clicker and treats....
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Can I just comment on this. (And before I go any further, I don't assume that you are cruel if you don't use a clicker and treats.) Yes, every dog is different. But, imo, every dog is much the same as well. To explain that.....I have a collie, so can I presume that I can use clicker trainng....usually yes. Same with a Terv or most working dogs. Terriers are harder, but still greedy sods. So from the get go, I have to understand that to dogs the main things that are important in their lives are:- reproduction (very important to them for the survival of their species....they don't know we've got that under control...., but sorry guys and gals, you are not going to mate your best buddy as a reward for a behaviour! :D) Food, for survival also. Most dogs (not all) like food....but some may not be too interested. So I up the rating of that food. From kibble....low value, to cooked black pudding.....high value. (I have about ten foods rated from 1 - 10.) I also though, do not use food for a long time (which is possibly a misconception that I have allowed to perpetuate).......unless the dog is so food orientated that playing with a toy is not high on it's agenda. What I'm trying to say is that I give the dog the reward that the dog picks......not the one that I assume it will pick.

In the end, what I want is a dog that will work for me.....yes, it gets it's reward at the end of the session. But an experienced 'C' or Ticket dog will do about 5 mins of h/w, a sendaway,, a retrieve, and distance control for no reward while it is in the ring.....and it will be happy to do so. (I do not do this in training.....but it happens in the ring.)

Can I also explain how I get a "stubborn" dog to work. An example.....I had a Terv.....very clever.....and I had just started clicker training. I could get her to work for her tennis ball.....but as soon as I took that tennis ball away....even if it was in a pocket....her h/w became flat and uninterested. One day (we were training with a group, all doing our own thing) a friend asked me what was wrong as I had a break and a cuppa. I explained about Lana. Ok, she said, let's wait until nearly everyone has gone and then we'll train her. She explained what we were going to do. I'll be honest, I was doubtful....very doubtful. Anyway, off we went.....me with Lana on the lead and Sandra with the tennis ball. I take the lead off Lana and immediately Lana is dancing around Sandra.....gimme the ball, gimme the ball, gimme, gimme, gimme. In the meantime I was walking around on my own, as if we were doing h/w, my hand in the h/w position, which Lana knew and recognised. I can't remember how long we did this.....I felt like a right idiot and was almost on the point of saying......See, said it wouldn't work....when Lana started to look at me and then back at Sandra who was throwing the ball a few feet in the air and catching it again and again....Lana did this a few times, looking back and forth....and then she joined me in the h/w position. I immediately clicked and Sandra threw the ball. We did this a few more times and each time, Lana joined me quicker and with purpose, and we extended the h/w a little, clicked her and Sandra threw the ball. That session totally turned me around into a clicker trainer. (Although I will admit I am not a "purist" clicker trainer, waiting for a behaviour....although on that day that was exactly what I was!! lol) But what stuck in my brain that day was what Sandra said. I'd said....she's a Terv, off working lines, why can't I get her? And she replied....she's a dog. What if you had picked her up in the pound and had no idea what breed she was? She's still a dog. A dog is a dog is a dog. You have to find out what turns your dog on.....whether it's treats, a ball, a flirt pole, etc., etc.

I would add how I teach my dogs (and other people's dogs) to work for nothing, but I think that's enough for the mo. If I've bored you rigid, my apologies!!
 
splashgirl45 said:
thankyou DREE for giving me a lesson on how to train.......the tone of your post was once again talking to me like i am a child who knows nothing about dogs....and yes i did read it all and yes i was bored.......:(
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Sorry, I am too used to people wanting every detail, because if I don't explain it in detail, they come back with lots of questions. This is obviously not the place for me. And it was meant to be a draft, but I got that bit wrong too. :(
 
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Who remembers Cayla, who was often on here and had a whole wealth of knowledge and she imparted that with great humour and self deprecation. if you wanted to know anything she was your girl, she was blunt at times,called a spade a spade but was one of the most popular posters on here.

I know she is not on here now because the daft bat lost her password but she is a personal friend and I have learnt many things she didnt put on here as she would regard it as boasting, she never blew her own trumpet and she helped many people on here with their problems.

I think what Im trying to say is its not what you know but how you address people, perhaps Dree stop taking yourself so seriously and say what you want to say but not in a preachy way.
 
Not remotely related to the thread, but on the subject of dogs (not) performing in a ring...

I don't show/compete dogs, but I was once talked into taking Dee into a sausage eating competition at one of these fun dog shows. This is a dog that can't be fed kibble because she swallows the whole of her meagre ration in 30 seconds without chewing a single piece, and would frankly trade me in exchange for a sausage, so this seemed like a class we could really excel at. We were in the ring with the other competitors, and she was excitedly looking at me and the sausage wagging her tail furiously. The whistle went and I gave her the sausage....she gingerly took it off me, placed it on the floor and NIBBLED it :oops:. All the other competitors stood staring at us, waiting for Dee to finish her sausage. I left the ring in fits of laughter vowing never to darken the floor of a fun dog show ring again, with my OH on the floor in hysterics. :rolleyes:
 
I like to read a lot of the threads on here, but I think there is a problem with passion taking over and the main point of the thread being missed. It isn't about people having different opinions its how those opinions are put across, its hard if not impossible to convey tone and exact meaning in words other people read. Trolling is an emotive word and I feel a troll is someone who actively goes out of their way to put others down, which nobody on here does.

If you own a dog, cat or any animal, and take the time to go onto a forum and talk about it then I feel you have the right intentions with your pet, otherwise if you didn't you wouldn't be bothered to talk about it. As long as you are providing the basics in terms of food, shelter and companionship everything else should be fluid and designed to work for the personality and needs of your animal.

Everyone on here loves animals, that should be enough of a foundation to promote healthy positive discussions.
 
Why can't Dree post what she likes how she likes? Don't read it if you find it boring. I've been told to check my facts before posting recently. Actually those facts are facts and as I answered I will post what I like anyway. As long as you are not bullying or being abusive its a open forum. If I want to post about fluffy kittens and pink ponies I will and if you don't like it just ignore it. Everyone can answer and debate if they feel like it but how dare people try to police the forum just because they don't like what's said.
 
Sandstone1 said:
Why can't Dree post what she likes how she likes? Don't read it if you find it boring. I've been told to check my facts before posting recently. Actually those facts are facts and as I answered I will post what I like anyway. As long as you are not bullying or being abusive its a open forum. If I want to post about fluffy kittens and pink ponies I will and if you don't like it just ignore it. Everyone can answer and debate if they feel like it but how dare people try to police the forum just because they don't like what's said.
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Well sure, anyone can post whatever they like as long as it doesn't break forum t&cs, but equally others can then respond however they like to that person. If you post something antagonizing (and most of us have at some point or another), then you cannot moan if other posters respond in kind. It has nothing to do with forum police, that's just the way life works. And ironically, you instructing people to ignore things is the most forum policey thing on this thread so far.

(Btw, I would love to read a thread combining fluffy kittens and pink ponies)
 
It is disappointing that someone who was doing their best to share their knowledge and expertise has been made to feel so bad that they are leaving the forum.

I always appreciate it when people share their knowledge, I am thinking particularly of the advice CC and Gunnergundog gave me recently.

I know Clodagh should not have to train her stepson's dog, he should take responsibility for that, but the advice Dree gave was good. "capture" the time the dog isn't barking, reward and name the behaviour, for example the cue "quiet". It is easier said than done which is why people resort to a quick fix.

I didn't respond to the thread because Clodagh was asking for opinions on bark collars and it would come as no surprise to anyone on the forum that I don't like them for all the reasons other posters have already highlighted.

On another thread GSD Woman asked for help with her dog as using a "squirt" bottle had done nothing to change the dog's behaviour (aversives suppress behaviour they don't teach the dog an alternative behaviour). She wasn't overwhelmed with training tips.

I was hoping for advice on keeping my youngster from barking on this thread. She does it when I'm outside with all of the dogs. The only thing that makes any difference is using a squirt bottle, which I hate and is inconvenient when I'm working in the yard. (That's garden for y'all.)
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...orted-for-barking.780383/#grzL8ddGqIycfsRj.99

It is kind of Dree to take the time to share her experience. I am always happy to learn of ways to engage with my dog and welcome training tips.
 
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Having loosely followed this thread, some of drees posts have been informative and helpful along with the advice from some other posters. I'm not not sure why she has been singled out by some people. Surely, it's possible to share different experiences and opinions without being made to feel unwelcome?
 
I think one of the biggest problems on a forum is there is no way to hear the tone, seeing facial expressions etc so it’s easy to take things the wrong way if you feel that way inclined. Dree has a more formal sounding tone in her posts to my eye, and that may be just the way she writes/expresses herself but I never took the posts as patronising or even particularly argumentative.
Live and let live. The forum would be a very dull place if we all agreed all of the time.
 
I found Dree's training post quite interesting and not boring or condescend and I've had family dogs all my life from way back when choke chain and leads were rthe only lead and Pedigree Chum and Chappie were the only dog food. They were just family pet dogs, not trained gun dogs or top class obedience dogs or agility dogs or sniffer dogs just family pet dogs. Thinking back there was never a need for antibark collars or e collars or fancy training methods and all our dogs lived longhappily family pet dog life's although the labrador we had was a pain in the arse but then so was my older brother. My dog now is brill, he's clever and funny and can be daft. His recall is brill, lead walking ok, doesn't suffer any anxiety over anything, doesn't guard his food and barks when he gets giddy and he's never had any real formal training, he's just a family pet dog. He lives for his ball. If there was a fire and he could save me or his ball. The ball would win every time!

I've been on this forum a long old time and I remember Cayla. She was clever and funny, interesting and knowledgeable, forthright and had a lot of commonsense. She was never nasty, rude and arrogant, it's a pity she isn't still here she could train some forum members.

Anyway this post is long and probably boring to some so I'll leave it there.



#sorrynotsorry
 
DabDab said:
Well sure, anyone can post whatever they like as long as it doesn't break forum t&cs, but equally others can then respond however they like to that person. If you post something antagonizing (and most of us have at some point or another), then you cannot moan if other posters respond in kind. It has nothing to do with forum police, that's just the way life works. And ironically, you instructing people to ignore things is the most forum policey thing on this thread so far.

(Btw, I would love to read a thread combining fluffy kittens and pink ponies)
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I'm not instructing anyone. All I'm saying is if you don't like how someone posts move on. There is a difference between a lively debate and bullying.
 
Sandstone1 said:
I'm not instructing anyone. All I'm saying is if you don't like how someone posts move on. There is a difference between a lively debate and bullying.
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The way some people responded to Dree has been at times on the verge of bullying.
she seems knowledgeable but because her views don't fit with other people's she's been singled out.
 
Sandstone1 said:
The way some people responded to Dree has been at times on the verge of bullying.
she seems knowledgeable but because her views don't fit with other people's she's been singled out.
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Not quite right there Sandstone, that poster quoted me incorrectly, then despite me pointing out that they were wrong, still insisted they had indeed read my post and censured me.
I've blocked them, only the 2nd time I've done so, as there was just the insistence that they were correct, which at best was exasperating and at worst was downright rude.
Very similar autocratic responses from that poster on the WWs thread too, overall its rather unpleasant in my opinion and unwarranted.
I'll toddle out of this part of the forum I think, its definitely quite combative and more so than other sections.
 
Sandstone1 said:
The way some people responded to Dree has been at times on the verge of bullying.
she seems knowledgeable but because her views don't fit with other people's she's been singled out.
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I think some of the responses to Dree are also influenced by her very rude one on the WW thread, which I would think, annoyed a number of people, I certainly considered them rude and hectoring.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Not quite right there Sandstone, that poster quoted me incorrectly, then despite me pointing out that they were wrong, still insisted they had indeed read my post and censured me.
I've blocked them, only the 2nd time I've done so, as there was just the insistence that they were correct, which at best was exasperating and at worst was downright rude.
Very similar autocratic responses from that poster on the WWs thread too, overall its rather unpleasant in my opinion and unwarranted.
I'll toddle out of this part of the forum I think, its definitely quite combative and more so than other sections.
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My replies on the WW thread was in defense of WW, if I remember correctly. Why on earth those comments relate to this one is a bit beyond me.

You've toddled off. Well, something good has come out of this thread then. :p
 
This comment was made on the WWS thread when I said something and then disappeared.......
amymay said:
I think she must be back in the shower....
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This is, I believe, after I stated that I was in a wheelchair at the mo. (I didn't say that for sympathy, just an explanation.) But then a very sensitive person posted the above. Very adult.

And this is the sort of thing I said:- "
dree said:
They're being cared for as well as is possible when you have 40 of them!! She's doing a better job than the Rspca would have done, that's for sure. I've watched their "care" and it's sheer neglect. Allowing all but 7 of the Coney Lane horses starve to death in a yard they put them in!!! They make me spit with hatred.
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So there you are. Been on two threads and lambasted on both.
 
YorksG said:
I think some of the responses to Dree are also influenced by her very rude one on the WW thread, which I would think, annoyed a number of people, I certainly considered them rude and hectoring.
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That would be a post where I had an opinion different from yours? Rude and hectoring, really? I'd been on this forum for two minutes and was inundated with posts that were rude and nasty. What a lovely place this is!!
 
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