Any experience of low albumin in blood / conditioning feed recommendations / WWYD (no doubt will end up being long!)

[olop]

I’ve had numerous problems with my old lad (23 years) with low albumin/high liver levels since he turned 19. The first symptom in mine was a swollen sheath and generally depressed demeanour. His albumin levels fluctuate between 26-29 and if they are ever at 26 he goes on a course of steroids (he has yearly blood tests, sooner if I notice any swelling). Vet initially thought parasite induced but he’s on a strict worming programme at the yard I’m on so that has been ruled out. He had an ultrasound of the intestines and they were enlarged and so the vet thinks IBD. As I say mine gets a course of steroids once he hits 26 otherwise I manage mine with diet. My vet warned me that if the levels go below 20 then it’s pretty life threatening.
Have you had yours scanned? IBD comes with quite a poor prognosis but mine is still with me 3 years later on the above management.
Albumin and liver levels go hand in hand, I’m not sure on the science of it though!

 

[chaps89]

I’m so sorry he’s still so poorly
Some of it almost sounds neurological - how does he react to basic neuro tests?
Some kind of toxin also feels like an option to explore - I know the others are unaffected and that you’ve been at your yard for a while but I think I’d be considering testing the grazing/ double checking for anything poisonous out there. Paint in the stables, bedding supply, new feed buckets, anything that might be questionable? Given as you’ve changed forage options not that.
Has he had steroids at any point? Tricky if he’s getting pulses etc but that was the treatment when my old boy had protein losing enteropathy and ibd. Wonder if the ‘laminitis’ is a pain/stress response as opposed to a metabolic one in this instance?

None of this is based off science or medical training, just what is coming to mind. I think I’d be pushing for a referral to dick vets or similar now.

(And re same day callout fee on top of everything, not one I’ve come across before)

 

[holeymoley]

How worrying for you and poor Chip. There’s nothing worse when our friends are unwell and we don’t know the cause. I would honestly patch any more time with local vets and do your best to get him down to the Dick or even Glasgow Equine Hospital. I can’t remember which area you’re in, I want to say more to the east, in which case Dick would be better but I know a lot of very good vets at Glasgow too. Good Luck. I’m another that would also test the liver.

 

[doodle]

In case I didn't make it clear I am very happy with dental vet. He's gone above and beyond at every turn and taken time out to help when it's really not dental related.

Sorry if I caused offence. I wasn’t meaning that.

 

[TPO]

Sorry if I caused offence. I wasn’t meaning that.

No you didn't, I'm sorry. I was just worried that I'd worded it wrong and my gratitude for the dental vet wasn't obvious. Definitely not a dig at you and just emphasising how pleased I am with dental vet and their help and support

 

[TPO]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I have to say that none of you have helped with the getting me off the ledge part. I am freaking out even more than before, and I didn't think that was possible!

I'm a bit done in, over the whole thing, not this thread, so I'll reply properly to everything raised tomorrow. Definitely food for thought and as tou can probably imagine even more fuel for my rage that this hasn't been taken seriously & I've had zero explained to me other than repeatedly being told that this shouldn't be happening.

I'll be phoning new vet tomorrow to try to get an earlier appointment and referral ASAP. Thanks again

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Blummin heck poor you and Chip..my thoughts are…immediate referral to Dick or Weipers for them to investigate totally inside out. In 2016 with my mare we treated what we thought was infection for 3 months and she went to weipers for lung infection investigation and it turned out to be blocked stomach..a whole different ball game. I think investigators need to start with blank sheet. Chip could be admitted by tomorrow..I don’t think waiting to see what happens next is reasonable anymore. I’m sending get well soon vibes to Chip and a big hug to you.

 

[palo1]

Thanks for all of the replies.

I have to say that none of you have helped with the getting me off the ledge part. I am freaking out even more than before, and I didn't think that was possible!

I'm a bit done in, over the whole thing, not this thread, so I'll reply properly to everything raised tomorrow. Definitely food for thought and as tou can probably imagine even more fuel for my rage that this hasn't been taken seriously & I've had zero explained to me other than repeatedly being told that this shouldn't be happening.

I'll be phoning new vet tomorrow to try to get an earlier appointment and referral ASAP. Thanks again

Not surprised you are done in and still on the ledge @TPO . If you can take swift action to get a proper diagnosis that seems like it might be helpful for you and Chip. He is one lucky horse that you have are doing so much to try to work out what the problem is. Being self financing is both a good thing but also, at times, a heavy weight. I hope you have other things you can be thinking about that are 'easier' too. Sending all good wishes. x

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I have nothing helpful to add but didn't want to read and run. Look after yourself x

 

[TPO]

Just a short update because I'm a wee bit frazzled.

New vet came out at 11 and shared my concerns as noted above. She secured an emergency referral to vet hospital and now I'm just waiting on transporter arriving at 3.

Typical that I sold towing car and trailer a few weeks before this kicked off

The plan is to get him there before 5 so they can process bloods tonight then monitor overnight before a work up tomorrow. New vet reckons he needs to specialists in a few different fields to look at him.

No one can understand why albumin levels of 22 didn't instigate immediate action or why bute was prescribed at such a high dose, let alone to a horse with an empty stomach and obvious gastric distress.

My manager is on leave so I cried at a different manager when asking for last minute leave. He kindly asked if I was OK which triggered the waterworks. Ffs why am I like this?! 10 flipping weeks to get to this point with a very obviously ill horse.

I do not have a good track record of horses lasting long after I bring them home from the vet school which isn't helping

 

[chaps89]

You’re like this because you care and you’ve tried very hard to do best for him and been let down by professionals along the way. And because 10 weeks is a long time to go through this amount of stress, it would take its toll on anyone.
No one could question how much you love your horses and how much you do for them and I really feel for you, you’ve had such a rotten run of luck.
Everything crossed you get some answers later feel free to message me if you want to chat offline

 

[SEL]

Just a short update because I'm a wee bit frazzled.

New vet came out at 11 and shared my concerns as noted above. She secured an emergency referral to vet hospital and now I'm just waiting on transporter arriving at 3.

Typical that I sold towing car and trailer a few weeks before this kicked off

The plan is to get him there before 5 so they can process bloods tonight then monitor overnight before a work up tomorrow. New vet reckons he needs to specialists in a few different fields to look at him.

No one can understand why albumin levels of 22 didn't instigate immediate action or why bute was prescribed at such a high dose, let alone to a horse with an empty stomach and obvious gastric distress.

My manager is on leave so I cried at a different manager when asking for last minute leave. He kindly asked if I was OK which triggered the waterworks. Ffs why am I like this?! 10 flipping weeks to get to this point with a very obviously ill horse.

I do not have a good track record of horses lasting long after I bring them home from the vet school which isn't helping

You're under an incredible amount of stress and that's understandable.

I'm relieved you have a vet on board who is taking everything seriously and let's hope you get some answers

Please keep us all posted and remember we're all here supporting you from the other end of our keyboards (where I feel pretty useless at times but sending as many positive vibes down the internet as I possible can xx)

 

[Tiddlypom]

You’re like this because you care and you’ve tried very hard to do best for him and been let down by professionals along the way.

This all the way. You’ve been doing your best fighting Chip’s corner. You and he have repeatedly been let down by multiple professionals.

All the best with the referral.

 

[AWinter]

Sorry if someone has already said this because I’ve only skimmed the replies but one thing that came to mind while reading your story is the high dose of bute and how he started scouring after that. Bute can really exacerbate ulcers and one of my scientist friends was recently telling me someone is doing a study where they actually give bute to horses with suspected hind gut ulcers as a diagnostic tool because it makes them so much worse.

He sounds really run down and hopefully it’s just a number of fixable things that all together have just been a bit too much for him to cope with. I’ve come across this with horses being given a lot of medication quite a few times, it really takes it’s toll on the body and some vets don’t seem to appreciate that.

I’m sorry you’re both going through this and I really hope you can get some answers soon, please keep us updated.

 

[PurBee]

How you feel is perfectly understandable. When our horses are ill its stressful with even a treatment plan in place. Without knowing what’s wrong, the stress can be magnified many times. Be kind to yourself, you’re trying your hardest, and deserve to cry whenever you bloody-well have to!

Fingers firmly crossed the horspital give some answers.

I thought of you this morning, thinking about chip, losing weight despite eating hence stomach lining health has been questioned along the journey by vets thinking parasites etc. I wanted to mention that if the gut lining does seem to turn-out to be inflamed or damaged in some way, glutamine has been proven in studies to help regrow and repair the gut lining. Its an amino acid. It’s always a solid nutritional gut health soldier to use for a few weeks/months to speed repair. Worth keeping that on the back-burner in case horspital do find gut issues.

I hope you can fully rest tonight knowing Chip is in good hands xx

 

[ester]

Only just caught up TPO, had somehow missed the previous thread. I’m glad he’s going in, I was going to agree with TM in that he probably needed an internist referral. Really hope you get some answers and some support x

 

[callybbi]

Glad you have managed to get him referred. Keeping my fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of all of this x

 

[Reacher]

Glad you have managed to get him referred- I think it’s where he needs to be to get some answers, and if he needs to go on a drip to hydrate etc he will start feeling better.
Im not surprised you are stressed and exhausted, the local vets have dropped the ball and I think I’d have been cracking up ages ago. Take care and hope you get some answers asap. x

 

[Fransurrey]

Can't add to advice already given, but fingers crossed the referral yields some fixable answers. Poor Chip and poor you. Not surprised you're emotional.

 

[doodle]

Hopefully you get him there safe and you can get answers quickly. I was about to come and get you (don’t worry I don’t know where you are) and take him then I saw the time.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

Just caught up with this - Christ on a bike you been through a terrible time of it and poor service by previous vets it would appear. Glad you’re getting somewhere with new vet and I hope they get answers for you. Well done for giving such great care to him with little support. Not surprised you had a blub at your manager, entirely reasonable! Good luck, keep us updated when you can…. fingers crossed for some good news.

 

[abbijay]

TPO, I haven't read every bit of what you've written but has anyone scanned him for Right Dorsal Colitis? (this is basically NSAID toxicosis)
This sounds so familiar to what I went through with my old boy when he had a tendon injury.
Give a bit of bute... give a bit more bute... starts scouring... notice swelling... get told "no it's nothing really". Swelling gets worse (his headcollar was imprinting on his face!)... blood test... get results and I'm told "how fast can you get him to horsepital, this is life and death for him". He spent a week on ICU and made it through but was put on a hay/haylage ban for several months while also being on box rest for tendon injury. And he can NEVER have bute (or its alternatives) again.

I hope you are both ok and get the help you need but if no one mentions it definitely talk to the vet at horsepital about the possibilty of RDC. Appreciate this might not be helpful but would hate for this to be overlooked.

And if it is RDC, do not give yourself a hard time. It is very rare and you have done the very best you can with the professionals available to you.

 

[palo1]

@TPO - I hope you have Chip at the horspital now and that you are being well informed and supported by a specialist vet. I wish I had any experience or insight that might be useful but I don't so I just wanted to say I have been thinking of you and Chip today. Hugs x

 

[TPO]

Thanks for the replies.

Chip is tucked up at hospital and being starved. His stomach is enlarged so an attempt to see if it empties and reduces to a normal size or if that inability is the issue.

He's had a scan and bloods. Mind gone blank but there's a thickening in the gut on the "connector" of the stomach to the hind gut. It's on the tip of my tongue but I can't type it out.

Bloods showed albumin dropped to 20.5 but almost everything else, including white count, is normal/healthy. One enzyme is out of whack but its linked to gastro issues so makes sense.

Depending on what his stomach does tomorrow am the plan is to rescan then scope, do belly tap and there was talk of retrieving tissue from the thickening to test.

I think because there's so much visually and in the history it's a case of trying to narrow it down. None of it ties into the facial swellings and how they're behaving or the swollen salivary glands but one thing at a time.

The two vets in charge of him were absolutely amazing. They listened to everything and believed me! They let me stay and talked through every step and explained everything on th4 screen, their plan going forward etc. They managed to get results of the bloods back after 5 and came back to tell me them as I was leaving. They're going to call tomorrow am and again after the procedures. They had a bunch of students too and they were amazing. I've been there a few times and witnessed some concerning interactions between students and horses. One final year student asked me when my horse had last vomited during one visit. But this group were great, so good with Chip and so polite and helpful.

Sorry to hear about your horse @abbijay. How upsetting and stressful. I'm glad he's OK now and what a miracle worker you are getting him through all that. Th4 vets were very on it and they don't seem to be leaning that way but I made them aware of the dosing I was told to give that weren't on his records.

Thanks @doodle. I might need you for the return leg, my usual guy is booked up tomorrow. Although from the sounds of it I think Chip might be having a weekend stay.

I think this is a record for how short a time my salary has remained in my account on payday!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Sounds like he's in the right place. Fingers crossed for some answers.

 

[Upthecreek]

How awful for you both. I really hope you get some answers and a treatment plan soon

 

[doodle]

Thanks for the replies.

Chip is tucked up at hospital and being starved. His stomach is enlarged so an attempt to see if it empties and reduces to a normal size or if that inability is the issue.

He's had a scan and bloods. Mind gone blank but there's a thickening in the gut on the "connector" of the stomach to the hind gut. It's on the tip of my tongue but I can't type it out.

Bloods showed albumin dropped to 20.5 but almost everything else, including white count, is normal/healthy. One enzyme is out of whack but its linked to gastro issues so makes sense.

Depending on what his stomach does tomorrow am the plan is to rescan then scope, do belly tap and there was talk of retrieving tissue from the thickening to test.

I think because there's so much visually and in the history it's a case of trying to narrow it down. None of it ties into the facial swellings and how they're behaving or the swollen salivary glands but one thing at a time.

The two vets in charge of him were absolutely amazing. They listened to everything and believed me! They let me stay and talked through every step and explained everything on th4 screen, their plan going forward etc. They managed to get results of the bloods back after 5 and came back to tell me them as I was leaving. They're going to call tomorrow am and again after the procedures. They had a bunch of students too and they were amazing. I've been there a few times and witnessed some concerning interactions between students and horses. One final year student asked me when my horse had last vomited during one visit. But this group were great, so good with Chip and so polite and helpful.



Thanks @doodle. I might need you for the return leg, my usual guy is booked up tomorrow. Although from the sounds of it I think Chip might be having a weekend stay.

I think this is a record for how short a time my salary has remained in my account on payday!

No probs. Just shout. Although I am
At howe on Saturday

 

[TPO]

No probs. Just shout. Although I am
At howe on Saturday

We must be quite close, I'm Kinross.

Thanks for your very kind offer

 

[Tiddlypom]

So pleased and relieved that you got him there ok, and that the team are right on him. Very worrying times still, but you are no longer shouting into a void.

Lots of best wishes to you both.

 

[doodle]

We must be quite close, I'm Kinross.

Thanks for your very kind offer

Yep bridge of earn