Any idea what could be upsetting YO's Horse?

LaurenBay

LaurenBay

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Firstly, This is not my Horse, He belongs to my yard owner (and good friend) I do have her permission to post. She would be grateful for any advice.

Horse in question is a 17.1 8YO Belgium WB. YO has had him over 2 years now. She jumps him mainly. He is a very kind Horse, but is very sensitive!

In August, when YO went away, she asked her friend to ride Horse for her. The first time she tacked up, I was around too. Friend didn't think to tack up slowly as he is a sensitive boy, saddle went on far to quickly and Horse pulled back and run off around the yard. I manadged to catch him and calm him down. I held him whilst friend went ot put the saddle on him (slowly this time) the Horse had the same reaction as he was now a bit wary of it (Never had any issues before this) I held on and calmed him down again. I decided it was best if I put saddle on Horse (know him quite well) and he was fine. Friend got on and rode. He was fantastic and was fine untacking.

Since then, he has had an issue with the saddle going on. He begun to get better and was still a perfect gentlemen when being ridden and untacked. A couple of months ago, YO was tacking up, when she done up the girth, he had quite a violent reaction (rearing and broncing) she decided not to ride and untacked. She called the pysio out, Pysio said he was very tense around his poll area, but was happy with saddle fit, pysio suggested giving him some time off and do stretches. She gave him a month off, to chill in the field. Pysio came back out, said he was less tense around poll, but started to move backwards (towards bum) But he could be ridden again. YO brought him back into work, he was a darling. He still seemed wary of the saddle, but didn't react to it being put on. YO has been getting someone to give him a little handful off feed whilst it is being put on. This has been working. Still behaving like a star being ridden and in all other ways.

Anyway, They had the saddler out and the saddler said, it was a little bit too tight for him now, so suggested getting a new one. YO arranged for saddler to come out at the weekend and try out saddles. On the saturday my YO decided to lunge him, when putting the roller on, he flipped out and reared up. Had a bit off a moment on the lunge but overall was good. On the Sunday, the saddler came. He was wary of the saddles, but didn't react. Saddler wanted to see YO ride in a couple of the saddles. So YO goes off and gets bridle. Horse will not let her put bridle on (day before was fine) Saddler manages to get bridle on with a bit of time and then tacks up. Saddle goes on fine, girth done up. But when the saddler touched his side, Horse pulled away, reared, bronced and ran off. Caught him and calmed him down. By this point my YO was quite worried ( she has lost confidence with him, due to a Horse kicking her in the head and almost killing her, so understandable) So I offered to walk him down the the school and walk him around in hand. He was absolutly fine, So I asked him to go out on the lunge in walk only. Again was fine. YO took over and a big gust off wind came and he spooked then pulled away. Managed to get loose and have a run around. I managed to catch him and calm him down, although he was shaking all over. Walked him in hand again as didn't want to leave it at that. He was fine. Saddler said not too ride him that day, as clearly something was upsetting him.

So fast forward to today, YO goes into stable with him, Horse won't let her put headcollar on. She wasn't going to ride, But turnout.

Understandably YO is very wary of him now, as he is of her. She is going to pay her instructor to come out and go back to basics with him (tacking up and regaining confidence). She has stopped riding and will give him some time off.

So what next? More Pysio? Vet? Chriopractor? Equine Behaviour specialist? Nothing has changed in his routine. He is turned out every day in a herd, on hay (grass isn't really growing) and haylege during the night. He is on Alfa A, Sugarbeet, Topline and Hifi (he drops condition very easily, but always has)

Chocolate biscuits for anyone who read all of that!! Just tried to give as much info as I could!
 
Some warmbloods I have known have memories like elephants and take a long time to stop bearing grudges. A friend of mine has a lovely big lad, but of something upsets him it takes days for him to get over it. I think your friend is doing the right thing with calling in her instructor but I would get a good vet checkup done first before any more physio etc. she needs to know there is no underlying pain issues before starting anything else
 
This is the Horse, out competing on the 8th Jan

Domino.jpg
 
As said vet check first,my thoughts are physio followed by a months rest not usual as the muscles need to be worked to improve and rarely get better when turned away, unless due to injury. The saddle in the photo has a thick pad under this will alter the fit and make it tighter, narrower.
The horse and owner are now wary of each other and this will be causing issues in confidence, if nothing is pysically wrong going back to basic lunging and long reining to re-establish the partnership would be a good idea but your YO needs to be confident she can work with the horse otherwise it would be better to get a professional in to do this.
 
The first thing I would do is call in a good equine vet ,best if it's the type of vet who will really take notice of the Owners story not the type who think you are a hysterical horse owner
But I second the comment about WB having memories like elephants and now she lost a bit of confidence in him he will pick up on that if the vet can find no reason for the behaviour once the he got a saddle that fits a period with another rider or probally best ,a break followed by another rider or the owner trying again.
hope it all works out ok
 
Horse at our yard took a sudden aversion to the girth being tightened - snapping round, baring teeth etc, totally out of character. He was also swishing his tail a lot. Owner got vet to look, thinking it was a sore back. As part of the overall check-up, vet did a worm count. The horse was heavily infested, despite being on a regular worming programme. Once this was treated, he went back to being the gentleman we knew and loved.

Might be one to bear in mind, if your YO wants to explore all avenues.
 
Understandably YO is very wary of him now
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Why? He's done nothing other than tell her that something is wrong.

And why let someone who doesn't know how to deal with horses ride the horse when she was away??

The horse sounds as if he needs some physical investigating, and some sympathetic handling by competent people.......
 
Thank you all for your advice. I should mention that she is a very confident rider, just on the ground she is wary as he is so unpredictable. The thought of stomache ulcers crossed my mind, but I thought a Horse that has them, would usually drop condition and/or develop windsucking? I don't know too much about them, so correct me if I'm wrong
 
This is EXACTLY how my horse started to behave last year. He has severe kissing spines. First problem was me putting the saddle on him when I first got him. Pulled back and ran around the yard. I put it down to him being sensitive and new so I took it really slowly with him and he began to accept it. Then he had a hock prblem that required surgery. He recovered full soundness but when I went to saddle him he completely freaked, rearing and broncing. I used the clicker to retrain him to accept the saddle which he did but I always had to girth him up really slowly. He was always a darling to ride, never so much as spooked at anything. Perfect. But then he freaked again when I tried to work him in the pessoa. Then again he did it when I just put the lunge roller on him. The only time he freaked when I rode him was once when I did the girth up whilst mounted and moved him forward. He completely exploded!

Sounds like your friend's boy has the same reaction. My lad was checked by two vets, a physio and a McTimmony chiropractor. All said his back was fine. I had to insist on xrays as the vet really did not think it was due to his back. He had KS in ten places. He has since been operated on and is in rehab.

The only other thing that springs to mind with your chap, is gastric ulcers.
 
I own a belgian warmblood, if he had been scared by some one or worried by something he would be exactly the same.
If you scare him he will not forget in a hurry.
I don't think there is anything wrong with this horse physically, as the trigger was the numpty who chucked the saddle on the horse and scared it. He has then never been allowed to get over this.
If this had been my horse you would have to spend weeks desentizing him to what had scared him.
I would spend time putting the saddle on and off QUIETLY without doing the girth up, maybe with a handful of pony nuts to keep his focus on that. When he is relaxed with that I would move on to girthing up GENTLY ( I use a cair filled girth on my horse) then lead him with the girth not too tight, when he relaxes do the girth up again GENTLY, give him a treat and walk on.
Continue this until he is happy.
If you use a roller make sure this is not done up tight straight away.
Your friend has inadvertenly made him girth/cold backed and he needs desentizing in a sensible way.
 
AmyMay, YO is not blaming the Horse in anyway. She is just trying to get to the bottom of this. If you had been previously kicked in the head, which resulted in split lips, broken teeth, broken nose, fractured cheek bone, concussion. I think you would be wary of a big 17.1 Horse that was unpredictable. She cannot help the way she feels and I have already said she is getting her instructor in to help her. The friend that came to ride, does know about Horses. But she isn't used to such a sensitive Horse. I'm sure YO regrets asking her to ride, but whats done is done.
 
If you had been previously kicked in the head, which resulted in split lips, broken teeth, broken nose, fractured cheek bone, concussion. I think you would be wary of a big 17.1 Horse that was unpredictable.
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You didn't explain that the horse had done this to her. Puts a totally different light on th situation.
 
LB not all horses loose condition or windsuck with ulcers. That was my thoughts as i read the post, also i would prob get osteo out to see as it is unlikely to just be muscle if its gone from poll backward. In that pic horse does look quite tense.
I agree also with above poster about worm infestation even if regularly wormed x
 
AmyMay I did mention she had an accident, although it was another Horse that did that. Not this Horse, Charlie I actually did do some work with him myself. I took him in the school, and walked him round, then I got the numnah and practised putting it on and off ( he was wary of this at first, but soon settled) I gave him treats when he didn't react. The next session, I done the same thing, only this time I introduced the saddle only ( took off girth and stirrups as didn't want them to accidently bang on his sides) again it took a while but he was relaxed with it after spending half hour putting it on, treating, then taking off again. He was fine for a while. Thank you all for your advice and suggestions, will print this off for Yo to have a read through x
 
It is sounding more like a handler issue as opposed to a pain issue, if the YO is scared and the horse is sensitive then it can be a recipe for disaster. My first step would be for her to have as little to do with him as poss and see if there is a noticable difference in his behaviour, if not i would then investigate further down the vet/therapy route. I would also suggest the YO takes steps to over come her fears. :)
 
Is he a 'stressy' horse?

Does he object to having his tummy touched/stroked/groomed?

I'm thinking possible ulcers or 'acid' tummy- my horse gets like on occasion- usually in winter when he has forage in field/stable- not when he's at grass....an increase in fibre feed to ad-lib- to the point where he's leaving it plus AcidX by Global Herbs and he's totally back to normal.....he's never lost condition either, and he doesn't windsuck etc
 
I used to look after a event horse that you had to be careful saddling/girthing up otherwise he would run backward and snap his teeth at you. It turned out that he had damanged a muscle (cant remember which) but it was between his front legs. This was only found by a very experienced physio when it had become scar tissue.
Once it was found we had to do loads of front leg stretches which really helped him, but its unknown when he did the damage as he evented for 5 years and only had time off with a hind ligament strain he was sound the rest of the time.
If it was my horse I would have a experienced vet look first then go from there.
 
I have found over the many years I have cared for horses, that they will tolerate pain when a familiar person is handling them, far more than they will if a stranger handles them. I suspect he has a shooting type of pain caused by trapped nerves rather than a general soreness. This type of pain is what usually causes the panic like sypmtoms you describe. Where as a general soreness usually causes grumpiness, tail swishing or reluctance to work.
 
Thank you for your further advice and suggestions :)

The pysio used, was recomended by our vets and also on here (I have used her for my mare and she was fab) She is due back out early Feb.

Wagtail, interesting you should mention KS, this also crossed my mind. I hope your Horse makes a speedy recovery :)
 
I suspect kissing spines, get the vet and insist on spinal xrays! Do not have anyone else out prodding him, or change his diet or riding him till Kissing spines has been ruled out. it is agony, but the unpredictable nature of what you are having is symptomatic of extreme and sudden pain. i suspect not gastric ulcers as the reaction is so linked with tacking up.
 
Hippona said:
Is he a 'stressy' horse?

Does he object to having his tummy touched/stroked/groomed?

I'm thinking possible ulcers or 'acid' tummy- my horse gets like on occasion- usually in winter when he has forage in field/stable- not when he's at grass....an increase in fibre feed to ad-lib- to the point where he's leaving it plus AcidX by Global Herbs and he's totally back to normal.....he's never lost condition either, and he doesn't windsuck etc
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Not stressy at all. He is usually such a laid back gentle giant. No stable vices or ridden vices.

Fine to be groomed, although can sometimes be itchy, but this has always the case. Grumpy faces and tail swishing. But will stand quietly anyway.

Thank you for that info about uclers, having never had to deal with them before, I don't know too much about them.
 
Have showed this to YO, vet will be coming asap. She wants him x rayed for KS then if thats ok, then scoped for ulcers. Thank you all for your suggestions
 
Sorry to jump in but for people whose horses who have KS roughly how much did the xrays cost i know they will vary from each vet practice but also have a mare with issues to do with her back, saddles, riding etc shes off work for winter but i really want to get her back xrayed for Ks before we go back to restarting her this summer as i want to rule out all pain then can work out if shes actually just a sod to ride instead.

I hope your yard owner can get some answers soon and horse on the mend.
 
RoyalPolo said:
Sorry to jump in but for people whose horses who have KS roughly how much did the xrays cost i know they will vary from each vet practice but also have a mare with issues to do with her back, saddles, riding etc shes off work for winter but i really want to get her back xrayed for Ks before we go back to restarting her this summer as i want to rule out all pain then can work out if shes actually just a sod to ride instead.

I hope your yard owner can get some answers soon and horse on the mend.
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They cost around £20 per plate. You need around 5 plates. Then any injections/ sedation will be extra.
 
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