:( any ideas? Vet will be called next week

If it IS stifle, then issues like locking stifle tend to improve with fitness. 20 mins of walk a few times a week is not enough to get a horse fit.

However, I would want this confirmed before just upping his work to try it, in case it isn't that and he's in pain somewhere else. Do the bone scan, this has gone on long enough now, you need answers.
 
Whilst I wouldn't be comfortable exercising a horse showing these symptons usually, given as he has been displaying them for some time, I would continue working him until you get the vet back out (which hopefully won't be long anyway)
The last thing you need is for him to improve with time off so the vet doesn't have anything to go off. As awful as it sounds, sometimes you do need to push them/break them so there's enough to see and be investigated.
I hope you can get to the bottom of it.
 
I don't really think it looks like a locking stifle and I don't think the several vets that have seen him think so either. I can see why they have said neurological.

Given that he has been so tricky to diagnose I'd be wary of stopping working him in case they don't then have anything to look at and would take their advice on that.
 
I would say this horse is too sore to ride .
Neulogical problems behind are thought to be more common than was once thought .
I know because H had a fall in the field this summer and presented with a intermittently flaccid tail I would bore you all with the whole story but it appears it was a sort lived issue being caused by some acute inflammation.
His neck xrays where perfect .
So I had a bit of a 101 on neurological issues in the rear end of the horse .

OP if I where you I would either giving up ( because I would reckon that even if you a diagnosis the chances that it be something easily treatable are slim ) or moving the horse to a top specialist and know that I might be looking a kissing good bye to 5 k looking for answers .
If he’s sounder on the hard then you need to get the proximal suspensory ligaments blocked if you have not tried this already . However I suspect this horse will be a mass of compensation pain and will carrying more than one issue .
If you have done so I would get a really well respected Acpat qualified physio who has not seen the horse to look it over .
I always send horses for a work up with a recent ( within ten days ) physio assessment.
I would stop riding and walk lunge him moving him about until the vet sees him
I might ride him for a few days before the work up if that’s what they need you to do
It’s not a good place to be you have my sympathy .
 
I feel really sorry for you, you’ve tried so hard to find out what’s wrong and he is obviously such a kind chap who tries so hard.

I feel you are stuck between a rock and a hard place here - I worry you are going to get to a point where insurance call these symptoms pre-existing / out of claim window and you are left with a decision to find expensive diagnostics (and maybe treatment) out of your own funds.

As horse owners we all want clear cut diagnosis and treatment plans. Unfortunately it’s rarely that easy and you have a number of symptoms / diagnosis on him that doesn’t make the way forward clear cut at all.

Personally I’d skip vet works ups and drive him straight to horsepital for a bone scan and be prepared to find it myself. I’d be thinking at this stage it’s more a decision making process as to whether to call it a day for ridden future with him.

The longer you spend around horses the more you realise they can’t all be fixed and it’s usually less stressful for all concerned to give them a pat and say ‘happy retirement’
 
ihatework said:
The longer you spend around horses the more you realise they can’t all be fixed and it’s usually less stressful for all concerned to give them a pat and say ‘happy retirement’
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I was going to say something like this when I saw he has had problems for 2 years. Personally I would call it a day. I'm not sure it matters what it is exactly. He seems not capable of sustaining work for whatever reason. I'd be reluctant to throw more money at it. What does the vet say to a candid conversation about whether it is really worth investigating more or not?
 
HK I am sorry you're in this position still after everything you've tried. If you are still insured and have some ££ left to spend then now is the time to throw everything at it and get assertive with the vets - I very much wish I had when mine first started showing problems 2 years ago.

You have these videos to show to the vets, so I think you can insist on a bone scan. I'm convinced it would have been cheaper and less stressful for me and the horse to have done it 2 years ago when I wanted it - but was told I was over-reacting.
 
So sorry to hear you have not been able to get to the bottom of his problems.

I would send the video to the vet and ask if you should keep riding him or not. I would also want to get a referral to a good horse hospital.
 
Push for a referral if you can. I was told 4 times my mare wasn't lame and was just naughty and needed to be ridden through "it". I pushed for a referral on the 4th visit and she was diaganosed with a few issues which resulting in retirement. But at least I knew what I was dealing with. She wasn't insured and I paid £4k for the workup (more than I paid for her) but I'm glad I did.

Sorry you are going through this, he looks like such a sweet chap x
 
Horsekaren said:
Ester- yes it looks exactly the same to me, when I showed the vets him doing this ( 3 vets) all said they think neurological but it went away so it can’t be.

9tails yes that is what I am seeing it’s like the right hind goes to far under then the left goes short possibly to take the weight off the right quicker :/

when he started doing this before I rested him for 2 weeks before his work up and they declared him sound.

Nudibranch - I’m really wondering about his si, perhaps that’s why the jock injections helped for a short while but actually it’s higher up, to me it just doesn’t look like it’s the hocks. We discussed a bone scan but vet said it will show either everything or nothing at all, sort of leading me to not doing it.

frustratingly he was rested around the time of the hock injections so it could have been the injections that helped or the rest.

when I hack him on the roads I won’t trot because of the arthritis but he feels a bit slow and short but not lame like he is in the video :(
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Re: 'the neurological'- I think I'd want this definitively ruled out now as far as possible before continuing investigating more mechanical causes. As far as symptoms going away, (I'm certainly not a vet), is it possible that nerve constriction comes and goes as spinal processes change shape? Constriction could also be worse under saddle with the weight of a rider? Hence why you're not seeing the same effects in hand. I'm afraid to say (tactfully) that he looks like a wobbler to me. My fingers are fully crossed for me being totally wrong though and it working out for you both x
 
We had 5 months of on and off lameness with Monty. When he was finally lame enough for long enough to nerve block, he reacted badly to the Local Anaesthetic and we nearly lost him so we couldn't repeat it. That set us back another 2 months, then he was sound with the rest he ended up having as a result of the reaction. As soon as he was lame again we whisked him into hospital for a bone scan. It was the best thing we did and in the greater scheme of things not hugely expensive. His issue (arthritic elbow) was pretty rare, especially in horses who'd never had a trauma there so they'd never have thought to look for it.
 
Oh HK so sorry to see this... his neck does not move normally either, I wonder if he also has neck/spinal issues. Full work up/scans I think. That walk is not right. Big hugs.
 
May have already been said (sorry if it has!) but I’d be asking for a referral to an equine hospital now (Leahurst/Newmarket) for a full work up.

I understand he’s had work ups from other vets but I’d not waste time now (if you are insured the clock still ticks) and get as much diagnostic testing as is needed to hopefully come up with some answers for you.

I’m really sorry you are having such rotten luck. He’s a lovely boy x
 
Nothing useful to add just sending you a massive hug. It's very stressful when your much loved pony has an on going issue and even more so if you can't get to the bottom of it. I'm not sure where you are but Hattie Lawrence at Valley Equine Hospital is my go to person for anything unusual. Please let us know how you get on. I really feel for you.
 
I don't have the knowledge and experience of many here to add anything particularly useful - but I do agree that it looks like your answer may lie somewhere higher up than the hocks. I think going all in now, as far as insurance allows, and having the bone scan is your best option.

I'm so sorry you've had such a rubbish time of it. The brief highs of showing improvement almost makes it worse when things go wrong again. He looks like a really sweet lad and he's lucky to have such a caring owner in his corner. Best of luck with the vet and do keep us updated.
 
Vet recons left hind is the likely issue as its short intermittently.
I rode him again this morning and he wasn't as bad but he has just had 2 days break. He walked fine for 10 mins then i started to feel it very intermittently. I trotted large a few times on a long rein and he felt ok but i guess he was probably short behind on the left as he would try and fall in off the track, he also did a few tranter hoppy strides but after the trot he did as he does in the video intermittently. I hacked him up the lane (i asked him to march and not dordal) which he did fine (400m of a straight line) the last 100 meters was a slight slope down hill and he was less keen to march, felt like he wanted to trot behind but may have been me as i was a bit nervous.

Vet recons we need to try and isolate the cause which makes sense. I presume the next step would be to nerve block the leg.

Does anyone know what they nerve block in a leg when the do this? i presume hocks, Can they block the stifle? I imagine there isnt any point trying to block the SI but if you work up and he still does it its then quiet likely the SI is the issue.

What i do know is his feltlocks x rayed clean, hocks mild arthritis (left worse than right but still mild) Passes flexion tests. Spine xrayed clean.
I did think neck in the past but he flexes nicely on both reins, stretches evenly, i think when he goes tight in his neck it is because he doesnt want to step under so throws the right should out.

Would nerve blocking sound like a sensible thing to try? i have about 4k left so im thinking if we block and find answers thats great, if we block and get nowhere then try the bone scan, if that shows nothing i'll give him a break until end of summer and then see how he is.
 
Horsekaren said:
What i do know is his feltlocks x rayed clean, hocks mild arthritis (left worse than right but still mild) Passes flexion tests. Spine xrayed clean.
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Has he had his stifle x-rayed? Your vet should recommend how to proceed.. usually they have a plan of action. Has he seen him since the video? Nerve blocking might be difficult if its intermittent.

Faracat said:
I wouldn't use up any more of your budget with your current vet.

Get a referral to a lameness specialist and go for a bone scan.
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Was just typing this.. definitely go to a lameness specialist. They'll know exactly how to proceed.
 
Generally when nerve blocking they start at the bottom and work their way up (so block the foot first, then the fetlock etc etc). If they block at the top first all you know is that somewhere below that block is where the issue is...it doesn't narrow it down at all.
My friend's horse had a workup and they suspected stifles. I think she said stifles aren't as easy to block (but don't quote me)
I *think* you can block the SI but it requires a big needle. I seem to remember my vet doing it in a knock down box just in case the block affected the horses leg and therefore their balance / ability to stand.
I would be guided by your vet ref what to do first. Or if you're not sure about your vets ability then ask for a referral, then they can do everything that's needed as a one stop shop.
 
As there is so much speculation about the possibility of her having a neuro issue why don't you conduct your own neurological tests, they are not that hard and providing you are sensible and do them on a soft surface and wear a hat at least the danger element is vastly reduced?

Here is a link to the most useful neuro tests. https://www.equinewobblers.com/diagnostics/neurological_examination.html

I don't endorse this website or consultant (amputations and prosthesis legs - NO!!) but he has been really informative in informal email discussions in respect of my horse. I wouldn't do tests 8, 11 or 12 as these are specialist tests and have a degree of skill and carry what I would consider to be quite an element of danger to the normal layperson owner such as myself, but the rest are easy enough to perform - 6 and 7 are the most telling or they certainly were for my horse.

Bear in mind with neuro issues stemming from the neck the horse can change from day to day in the way it presents. My horse was horrendous on the tail sway test a couple of years ago, so much so I burst into tears! But subsequent tests were varied and they've got better and better and she's always been fine totally normal on tail tone and panniculus tests. She was really stiff a few months ago on carrot stretches to the right and her neck used to clunk and click but is 90% better now and her reach has improved. I don't 'hold her' for long in the stretch - probably 1-2 secs max but she finds much easier now. So although symptoms are always there they can be lesser or more and can constantly change.

I was delighted as she was looked at by my physio on Monday and amazingly she was very much improved on the tail sway test and also going down the slope with her head elevated, but in April this year when she went to see a specialist consultant (Dickie Hepburn) she was dreadful on both. She displays none of these under saddle either and the day she does is the day I stop riding her as it is too dangerous otherwise.

OP - also bear in mind that very occasionally horses can display ataxia that is nothing to do with compression in the neck. They can have eaten an abundance of red clover (which contains cyanide and can cause symptoms like ataxia) - toxicities. They can also have EHV (Equine Herpes Virus) and they may have been subjected to crop spraying chemicals in their hay which also causes this - again toxicities. It can be caused by vestibular issues with the brain or ears. Sometimes it might be caused by parasites. In America horses that display ataxia may have a symptom of EPM or West Nile Virus.

My point is that you need to conduct your own tests and then if there is cause for alarm you have something to go on.
 
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I'm late to this. Sorry you're both going through it.

I'd get him referred to Sue Dyson at the Animal Health Trust. She hasn't always had good news to tell me, but she's the one I trust implicitly to get to the bottom of what was going on with my horses. She'll do a full lameness work-up and you'll know where you stand.
 
MrsMozart said:
I'm late to this. Sorry you're both going through it.

I'd get him referred to Sue Dyson at the Animal Health Trust. She hasn't always had good news to tell me, but she's the one I trust implicitly to get to the bottom of what was going on with my horses. She'll do a full lameness work-up and you'll know where you stand.
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when i was googleing her name it came up that she retired in Summer this year :/
 
Horsekaren said:
when i was googleing her name it came up that she retired in Summer this year :/
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Oh bobber. Didn't think she'd ever retire. Thought she'd go, well, literally for ever. Hm. I'd still take the horse to the AHT. They're trained in Sue's ways. They're kind (no small thing when in such a situation). They have all the equipment and the skills to use it.
 
Hi.

My Welsh Cob use to do exactly the same thing. Have you had a back x-ray done yet?

My mare was diagnosed with kissing spine. Treated with the ligament snip operation and rehab. It did help, but would still occur over time. Having Rob Jackson the horseback vet treat her made a massive difference after that. She was very tight in her SI joint. Now if i notice the lateral walk starting to creep back, having Rob treat her stops it.
 
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