:( any ideas? Vet will be called next week

Sounds like you need to start overruling your vet. He/she doesn't seem interested in getting this sorted out, have they seen your video? Insist on a referral. I'm convinced it isn't the left hind that's the issue, the left hind is compensating for something else.

Who is your vet? PM if preferred.
 
Sack the vet. Get another opinion. We are a good bunch in here for getting to the root of things with various different experiences. I truly do not believe nerve blocking will be any good, or it will take you forever and a bottomless bank balance to get to the source. You need to be looking higher up - stifle/back.
 
Defo sack the vet. He/she should have suggested a referral a long time ago. There are other good lameness specialists out there even if Sue Dyson has retired.
4K insurance left is a good fund to have available, but local vet will soon fritter it away fruitlessly if he/she carries on like this.
 
I'm another on sack the vet Karen, this has been going on too long. Change your vet to one with a hospital where they can do you a proper workup, preferably starting with a whole body scinitgraph, or to a vet who accepts you on the basis that there is an immediate referral for a full workup.

YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER!

I doubt very much that your insurers would refuse to pay out if you demand a scintigraph, based on that last video, but you could call and make sure first.

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The problem with having a little cob that doesnt do anything much, is that vets quite often think it doesnt really matter. But it does matter. You've tried so hard for him and hes still not right so its time to hit it with everything you've got and get some answers.

I'm a big fan of Tom Beech so would have had him out ages ago, its still worth asking him if he can come out to ASAP while you wait for the referra to go through. But the main thing is to get Strawberry booked into a very good specialist vet referral centre. Dont start faffing about with nerve blocks in isolated joints and trying this and then trying that. Before you know it the 4k will be gone and you will be no further forward.

Your horse is not right and hes displaying unusual symptoms. He needs a proper work up and you need some answers.
 
Horsekaren said:
Vet recons left hind is the likely issue as its short intermittently.
I rode him again this morning and he wasn't as bad but he has just had 2 days break. He walked fine for 10 mins then i started to feel it very intermittently. I trotted large a few times on a long rein and he felt ok but i guess he was probably short behind on the left as he would try and fall in off the track, he also did a few tranter hoppy strides but after the trot he did as he does in the video intermittently. I hacked him up the lane (i asked him to march and not dordal) which he did fine (400m of a straight line) the last 100 meters was a slight slope down hill and he was less keen to march, felt like he wanted to trot behind but may have been me as i was a bit nervous.

Vet recons we need to try and isolate the cause which makes sense. I presume the next step would be to nerve block the leg.

Does anyone know what they nerve block in a leg when the do this? i presume hocks, Can they block the stifle? I imagine there isnt any point trying to block the SI but if you work up and he still does it its then quiet likely the SI is the issue.

What i do know is his feltlocks x rayed clean, hocks mild arthritis (left worse than right but still mild) Passes flexion tests. Spine xrayed clean.
I did think neck in the past but he flexes nicely on both reins, stretches evenly, i think when he goes tight in his neck it is because he doesnt want to step under so throws the right should out.

Would nerve blocking sound like a sensible thing to try? i have about 4k left so im thinking if we block and find answers thats great, if we block and get nowhere then try the bone scan, if that shows nothing i'll give him a break until end of summer and then see how he is.
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Oh, I thought you said he had had a full vet workup?

It sounds like he has had a more casual vet examination if he has not yet even had the nerve blocks, unless I have got it wrong?

For a vet workup you have to set aside 4 days (a day for each leg!) at hospital (or you can travel them there each day) when it is a non straightforward lameness. They start with examination stationary, looking for heat, bumps, feet, shoeing, conformation. Then they move on to looking at the horse in motion on the flat, on hills (up and down), with flexion tests, on the hard and on the soft, in straight lines and on circles, in hand, lunged and ridden. They will examine the saddle.

As long as something is visible (even if only visible after flexion tests) then that is enough to start with the nerve blocks. It is just a local anaesthetic. They start with one leg, at the bottom. They keep doing the lameness tests between each injection until they find a place where the horse comes sound.

Often horses have compensatory pain, so are lame in more than one leg. If you are lucky they come completely sound with nerve block on one leg. It helps if they have been freshly physioed as lameness from compensations is less likely. Then it is a one day stop.

Hopefully this gives an area to investigate. Then you have the X rays and scans. Hopefully then treatment. If you are lucky this could all be done in a day trip. If not lucky the investigations can go on over a few days so you can block different legs.

They do have to consistently show the "lameness" though, so you know when the correct block has been done to kill the pain.

When I took Jay for his work up he was hardly lame at all. In fact, without the flexion tests he was working sound on all ground, slopes, circled etc. But he was consistently sore with flexion.

When we found the right spot we did not need the flexions. We always started with a plain trot, and when the pain was gone he squealed, tossed his mane like a Wella advert and put his best foot forward. Even though he had not shown particularly lame before, he was wild with his enthusiasm when the pain had gone, it was very obvious. How was a suspensory in his off fore.

If blocking up the leg does not stop the symptoms then it would be normal to move on to look at issues within the top body of the horse, including spine near etc.
 
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Leo Walker said:
The problem with having a little cob that doesnt do anything much, is that vets quite often think it doesnt really matter. But it does matter. You've tried so hard for him and hes still not right so its time to hit it with everything you've got and get some answers.
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Yes, I've definitely brought this up previously as it definitely can be an issue with some.
 
Another vote for referral to hospital and don’t spend any more money with your own vets.

I made the mistake of having my vet do X rays/nerve blocks (he had a stifle nerve block done along with all the other parts). There was very little change when my vet did the blocks.

We then referred him to New Market, they did more xrays and nerve blocks and immediately found the issue (he was Initially booked in for a bone scan).
If I could go back in time I would of definitely just pushed for a referral straight away rather than spending £2K of the insurance with my own vets. There investigations were fairly pointless as Newmarket did repeat xrays and nerve blocks anyway!
 
When did the claim start, OP? Just wondering how long you have left before your 12 months are up.

I’ll echo Red-1’s suggestion of getting him freshly physioed before the workup to relieve compensatory pain - if he’s tight it makes identifying the primary lameness(s) all the harder.
 
i personally would not be happy to ride a horse that looks that unstable, you have the videos that should be enough to show how he moves, i would wlk him in hand if anything

you will be faffing around forever,, good advice on here, this time go for the gullet, think it through talk to the top vets, then think a bit more, so your head is straight, then make the decision and go for it girl
 
Sue Dyson retired from the AHT this year. She is Veterinary Advisor for the Saddle Research Trust and continues to work on a consultancy basis.
Their email address is on their Facebook page.
 
I'm very sorry to read that things haven't been well and to see the video.

I've been there where I trusted my vets and were guided by them and I ended up passing the year insurance deadline with money left that, with hindsight, should have been used for an MRI. I changed to another equine practice, got a referral, got a proper workup and surgery. Then had the backing of my new vets for the aftercare.

So please, please dont delay any longer. Get a referral to one of the recommended hospitals and get a proper work up and diagnosis for Strawberry and for you. I know how soul destroying it is in no man's land when you are supposed to trust and have faith in the professionals. I learnt the hard way so hopefully others dont have to. Please use the remaining time and money of your insurance wisely; in this situation get to a good vet hospital and get a FULL work up
 
I don't understand why it appears to be so difficult to get a referral to vet school/hospital? Call your vet today and insist on a referral you are the client and this has gone on long enough. When mare went lame it was intermittent and even then so subtle but knowing her inside out I knew something was off. Vet came out, did a lameness examination and offered to refer her on the spot, she was in within a week getting lameness work ups and then an mri scan to identify the problem.
 
wills_91 said:
I don't understand why it appears to be so difficult to get a referral to vet school/hospital? Call your vet today and insist on a referral you are the client and this has gone on long enough. When mare went lame it was intermittent and even then so subtle but knowing her inside out I knew something was off. Vet came out, did a lameness examination and offered to refer her on the spot, she was in within a week getting lameness work ups and then an mri scan to identify the problem.
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I wonder if the vets is reluctant to make a referral because in doing so you have to at least have half an idea of what is wrong with the horse.
In my friends case, although she begged her vet for a referral for her horse they wouldn't refer as they incorrectly thought my friends horse had EHV and Liverpool Uni Hospital has a large brood mare block and of course EHV can cause abortion. By the time they did the horse was really bad, so I think the OP should press her vet. I know its not easy having that conversation but its for the best.
 
MrsMozart said:
It shouldn't be at all difficult. My vets have always gone as far as they reasonably can without the specialist equipment and referred soonest.
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This. First opinion vets regularly refer on cases to specialists, or to another vet within the practice with different expertise. It’s not a biggie.
 
hopscotch bandit said:
I wonder if the vets is reluctant to make a referral because in doing so you have to at least have half an idea of what is wrong with the horse.
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This isn't true HB, though the vet would prefer it so it doesn't make them look like a pillock if it's something obvious!

With nothing much to go on and this kind of history, they should start with a whole body scintigraph and go from there.

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My last lad went wonky. He, in effect, always had been, just didn't show until being backed and as he grew. My vet investigated, proposed an in-hand regime, it didn't give any improvement (he got worse in those weeks), so immediately said off for a full lameness work-up. He arrived at the AHT and seemed as sound as a pound. I was thinking both "Oh cripes I've travelled him and wasted everyone's time" and "Yay! It was just a blip! He's okay!", but Sue had him stay, did a full work-up, and it turned out he was a bobbered as anything and there was no hope for my lad. So a bloody awful outcome, but it would've been a whole lot worse for all concerned if my vet hadn't referred. Admittedly I've had enough wonky horses now that I know enough to effectively insist on a referral if I didn't have a vet who was willing to propose it. She was never worried about being viewed as an idiot - she knows the specialists are just that, specialists, they see lameness issues every day and are set up to investigate and diagnose and fix where possible.
 
iv'e been quietly thinking and not made any decisions yet but my first plan of action is to get one of the horse back vets out. I think with them being used to seeing odd things this will hopefully be something they have seen before. Has anyone had them out, was there an issue with your horse and did they help isolate the area they believed to be the cause? i'm thinking along the lines of get one of them out asap and see if they can pinpoint where is tight, check his in line and just look at him as a entirety.
Everything has been going so so well, instructor is amazing and really looking at me and what im doing but to be going from the best we ever have been to the walk above i know in my gut something isn't quiet right. the issue is its so intermittent for example this morning i hacked him (yay me!) all in walk for 35 mins with a friend and he didnt take an odd step but he didnt want to march, he was happy just plodding but thats just him. i think perhaps the plodding is him being short but i cant see.
I tried a few neuro tests-
If i pull his tale he will not sway, back legs he moves back immediately when placed incorrectly, front legs im not 100% sure going to try again properly when i have someone with me but i put his front across his other front leg and he just trod on his own hoof for a while, then slipped off, other times he moved it back with in a second. The other odd thing was on a small circle his steps under behind correctly, crosses over and knows exactly how to move but... im not sure if im looking for oddities but his inside fore leg will not move, until he cant physically twist it anymore, so his shoulder pops out and the inside fore will be faceing one way and the rest of his legs have moved.... possibly me confusing him as i taught him to stop at the front and bring his hind round so he is facing me. Just a bit off, haha but im looking deeply at everything.
 
I admire your tenacity HorseKaren, but the clock is ticking against your insurance claim. Get a specialist referral now would be my advice before it’s too late to act upon whatever they might decide.

I’ve been here before trying to fix things with local vets, call outs etc. On reflection, I was avoiding the ‘special specialists’ because I feared they’d tell me something i didn’t want to hear. If it ever happened again, I’d need to face this square on to give the horse the best chance.

hugs, I know it’s awful x
 
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