:( any ideas? Vet will be called next week

Horsekaren said:
iv'e been quietly thinking and not made any decisions yet but my first plan of action is to get one of the horse back vets out. I think with them being used to seeing odd things this will hopefully be something they have seen before. Has anyone had them out, was there an issue with your horse and did they help isolate the area they believed to be the cause? i'm thinking along the lines of get one of them out asap and see if they can pinpoint where is tight, check his in line and just look at him as a entirety.
Everything has been going so so well, instructor is amazing and really looking at me and what im doing but to be going from the best we ever have been to the walk above i know in my gut something isn't quiet right. the issue is its so intermittent for example this morning i hacked him (yay me!) all in walk for 35 mins with a friend and he didnt take an odd step but he didnt want to march, he was happy just plodding but thats just him. i think perhaps the plodding is him being short but i cant see.
I tried a few neuro tests-
If i pull his tale he will not sway, back legs he moves back immediately when placed incorrectly, front legs im not 100% sure going to try again properly when i have someone with me but i put his front across his other front leg and he just trod on his own hoof for a while, then slipped off, other times he moved it back with in a second. The other odd thing was on a small circle his steps under behind correctly, crosses over and knows exactly how to move but... im not sure if im looking for oddities but his inside fore leg will not move, until he cant physically twist it anymore, so his shoulder pops out and the inside fore will be faceing one way and the rest of his legs have moved.... possibly me confusing him as i taught him to stop at the front and bring his hind round so he is facing me. Just a bit off, haha but im looking deeply at everything.
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You may think being 'ploddy' is normal for him but it could be him trying to compensate for being in pain/uncomfortable.

A lot of people have commented on this thread and others before that this horse needs a proper work up with a specialist rather than your usual vets which I wholeheartedly agree with. Also that you need to stop riding him until you know what you are dealing with.

I know that you are fairly new to horse ownership but please dont be afraid to stand up to your vets and say that you want a second opinion with a specialist vet.

There is alot of experience on this forum and people have gone through similar things with their horses.
 
HK you dont need to tell the vet what to look for. You ask for a full lameness workup from an equine specialist - I can't tell if you have already had one or not as there's some conflicting information. While they are out, show them the video you posted on this thread. Then ask for a referral to a hospital. (Or just go straight to that part.)

Forget all this being "tight" and "in line" or not. Your horse is lame. You ask for a full lameness workup. A vet knows what that means, then let them get on with it.
 
hopscotch bandit said:
I wonder if the vets is reluctant to make a referral because in doing so you have to at least have half an idea of what is wrong with the horse.
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ycbm said:
This isn't true HB, though the vet would prefer it so it doesn't make them look like a pillock if it's something obvious!

With nothing much to go on and this kind of history, they should start with a whole body scintigraph and go from there.

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Horses get referred all the time because they don't have half and idea what is going on with the horse, that is why they have referrals.

HK, it's rather frustrating to read your recent follow up TBH. I really don't think there is anything more to say than has already been said, for months, probably over a year now.
 
ester said:
Horses get referred all the time because they don't have half and idea what is going on with the horse, that is why they have referrals.

I'd like to think that if my vet was referring a case they would at least know what leg it was lame on.
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ester said:
HK, it's rather frustrating to read your recent follow up TBH. I really don't think there is anything more to say than has already been said, for months, probably over a year now.
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This. Plus when did the insurance claim start? This saga has been going on for a long time.
 
ester said:
Plenty don’t especially if they are lame on more than one, there’s a reason the lameness locator was invented and it’s definitely not a precursor to referral. Her vets have been dealing with this pony for months at least and not resolved it. How long do you keep going back to them?
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I'd just like to clear something up please.

I agree that she needs to ask for a referral and I wasn't disputing that. I was just justifying my response to my rather flippant reply 'I wonder if the vets is reluctant to make a referral because in doing so you have to at least have half an idea of what is wrong with the horse'.

For some reason people have jumped on me and have took that comment to mean that I didn't think the vet should refer as they didn't know what was wrong. I wasn't suggesting that for one minute. I was actually trying to be facetious by suggesting the vet didn't seem to know much.
 
HK, I am so sorry, It is so clear to all of us on here how much he means to you. You have been trying to get to the bottom on his issues for quite a few months now, it must be very worrying and frustrating for you.

I am another that would urge you to go straight to the specialist hospital. Your insurance is on a time limit of a year, so please keep that in mind. You do not need to waste money and the time with a vet coming to you.
 
Karen - as others have said you will need to get this moved along as your insurance will run out 12 months after you first noticed there was something wrong with your horse even if you have not reached your cash limit. I do really hope that you are able to get to the bottom of this.
 
amymay said:
Love, just get the horse referred.

I’m not sure there’s anything more to say on the subject, as so many posters are of the same opinion.
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Quite.

HK you have more than two years worth of threads about this horse on here, which I have followed even though you asked me not to post any more. You told me (and a few others) off for posting back then, when I was suggesting what everyone is now suggesting, and you are still ignoring the advice which you keep asking for.

I've rarely seen such a stoic horse, what a gem he is.

Horse ownership is bl**dy hard, and can be heartbreaking, but with it comes the responsibility to listen to what the horse is telling you, and your horse needs a proper work up at a proper veterinary hospital, which should involve several days as an inpatient. I suspect there are a lot of things wrong with him tbh.

Otherwise, retire him and hope that he is comfortable.
 
I'm new to this thread but have followed you and your horse for a little while as he seems ever so sweet, you seem besotted with him and I want to see you get to the bottom of this. I can't remember whether I've posted on earlier threads or not; often with vet-related things I defer to more experienced posters! Now I'm joining in just to be another voice in the crowd.


Horsekaren said:
i know in my gut something isn't quiet right.
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You are absolutely right, and I don't think you have to be familiar with your horse to see that. Like others, I suggest you bypass your vet now.


Horsekaren said:
im looking deeply at everything.
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As that is the case, then do this:

amymay said:
Love, just get the horse referred.

I’m not sure there’s anything more to say on the subject, as so many posters are of the same opinion.
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Let someone else - vastly more experienced than your vet, who probably has to deal with 100 different issues a week and therefore can't be expected to specialise in everything - look at him. No intermediaries, or in the meantimes, or just a quick look over from a bodyworker/anyone else - just get him referred to one of the recommendations on here. Some great names have been mentioned.

I'm sorry to be brutal - it honestly comes from a place of 'poor you' and 'poor horse' and wanting answers for you, rather than nastiness! You clearly adore him, so cut to the chase and get the best answers you can. Don't delay, or hold back on decisions - as others have said, the longer this goes on a) the more your horse suffers and b) the less chance you have to claim on insurance.
 
All I can say is that if he was mine, I would be picking up the phone right now and organising a referral and then transport to the Vet hospital. Sometimes you just have to say 'enough' and be proactive and make that first - sometimes frightening - step or you stay where you are with a broken horse and that's no fun for anyone.

I wish you the best of luck.
 
My worry is, he was referred in summer, and they began to work him up and then stopped at the ridden assessment as he seemed sound, because all i had to show them was what he was doing on the long lines earlier (same as the video on this post, same as before) I got him to do it about 10 times on the long lines in front of the vet but they didnt know what to make of it. This is my worry, he will work up sound on the ground and no doubt work up sound ridden if he is in a new place. I then show the videos and there is umming and arring as to whether it is pain at all. We did the bute trail and he was great on the bute, after the bute 6 weeks slowly things are falling apart. So its not like he came off the bute and went lame. A bone scan was discussed but i was told that they can show everything or they can show nothing at all and i felt that i was kind of being dismissed. Its not that i am ignoring him i am listening to him so much but as i keep being told its inconsistent. I still have at 7 months left on the insurance and im worried im going to send him somewhere and they are going to tell me the same thing.
I have to keep him in some sort of work as the rest around the time of the work up may have been why he came up sound.
I like the idea of getting one of the back vets as in theory that is a forth vet that will have seen him, being a vet if he sees him and thinks something is wrong that he cant help then they will send me on my way to the hospital. Please remember the last two vets declared him sound.
 
Taken from the Rossdale's website, but all the hospitals say much the same:

Scintigraphy (Bone Scanning)
Scintigraphy is an advanced imaging modality used to evaluate certain abnormalities of the skeleton. It uses radioactive tracers that allow the identification of changes in bone metabolism before they become visible on radiographs – for example, for identifying hairline fractures. It can identify problems in any part of the skeleton, but is especially useful in areas where clinical examination including diagnostic analgesia is often difficult, such as the pelvis and back.
How it works
The horse receives an intravenous injection of the radioactive substance Technetium, which acts as a ‘bone tracing’ agent. The bone scan camera is positioned next to the horse and is able to detect areas of increased bone turnover known as ‘hot spots’. It is the most sensitive method for the detection of fractures, inflammation, and infection and it shows pathology earlier than any other method.
Horses of any age and size can have a bone scan, including foals, broodmares and stallions. The dose of radiation is harmless to the horse's general health. The scan takes between 1-3 hours, depending on the area of interest, and does not require a general anaesthetic, though the horse cannot be discharged until the following day, when it is no longer radioactive.

When is scintigraphy indicated?
In most cases a bone scan forms part of a wider orthopaedic evaluation. Our clinicians will review the case history, the results of other tests and clinically examine your horse prior to the scan. Scintigraphy is useful in cases where:
  • An area of lameness has been localised but no abnormalities have been detected using radiography or ultrasound
  • Nerve blocks have not revealed the site of lameness
  • There is multi-limb lameness
  • In severe lameness where a fracture is suspected
  • Screening the whole skeleton is indicated in poor performance cases with no overt lameness
  • An area cannot be easily penetrated by radiography (e.g. the back and pelvis)
 
Horsekaren said:
iv'e been quietly thinkingand not made any decisions yet but my first plan of action is to get one of the horse back vets out. I think with them being used to seeing odd things this will hopefully be something they have seen before. Has anyone had them out, was there an issue with your horse and did they help isolate the area they believed to be the cause? i'm thinking along the lines of get one of them out asap and see if they can pinpoint where is tight, check his in line and just look at him as a entirety.
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Karen you are doing too much thinking and hoping and not enough insisting and demanding.

He needs dropping off at a top class orthopedic veterinary hospital with the instruction 'There is something wrong with him that nobody can identify yet. Find out what is wrong with him. Ring me for permission before you spend more than what is left on my insurance' and for you to leave him there while they do that.

He would not be the first horse to be found on a scintigraph to be struggling on gamely with a broken pelvis or deep seated spine or SI arthritis. I know you only want the best for him. Please don't string this out any longer, for his sake.

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HK, I would actually go against the grain here and continue to work him, he appears to be better after rest and it will be a waste of time to rest him and then take him to the vets who can't see anything. I would get him booked in as soon as you can, but keep him in work until then. Above you mentioned on the bute he was fine, it was after the bute left his system that issues have started again. That goes to show (as well as to the eye) that there is pain somewhere, it is just a case of finding it. It may be one issue, it could be 5. I completely understand your frustration with this, you have followed your vets advice, who are the trained professionals and it is hard to go against what they say. It must be very hard at this stage to know who to listen to or what to test for. That is why I would just bite the bullet and go for the whole works, get them to test absolutely everything and anything to finally get to the bottom of these issues once and for all. If you have 7 months left and issues are discovered then you still have 7 months to try to fix them.
 
Faracat said:
OK, I would not want him to go to the same Vet hospital as before. That must have been very frustrating and I can see why you are reluctant to have the same thing happen again.
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Actually tbf I’m sure where he went before had been recommended on here. I’d be inclined to send him back there.
 
So they were umming and ahhing, it might not be pain based but that doesn't mean it isnt mechanical or neuro based. You've completed this step, it gives you more information than they had last time. It all feeds into the picture that will help working out what is wrong.
 
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