Any Vegetarians or Vegans who ride?

[Sarah Sum1]

I know I'm going to come under fire here but we're all entitled to an opinion right?

I think being a vegetarian (unless for medical or taste reasons) is a cop out. If you're that upset about animals being raised for food then why eat dairy products? The cows don't just produce milk for no reason- they breed calves which are then slaughtered so we can drink the milk that was meant for them. If you do it for moral issues then how can you justify using ANY of the products? You may as well wear second hand fur coats since they're "already dead".

For the record, I am not vegetarian or vegan as I really don't think that it would make a difference to society BUT I make sure as far as I can that all meat I buy is organic/free range/locally reared as can be. I think that this is as much as you can do without being completely self sufficient and rearing/killing your own.

Regarding Vets putting animals to sleep- surely it would be better to relieve the suffering of an animal where you can rather than allowing it to continue to live in constant pain?

Lol! Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but it is hardly a 'cop out' Becoming a vegetarian is a massive step, i still eat dairy, but have cut right down and will stop, i agree fully that dairy farming is just as bad. It may not make a huge difference to society, but i know that when i leave this world i can say 'i knew eating another life was wrong' and hopefully i will get to sit next to god at the dinner table while all you meat eaters will be enslaved forever Mwahahaha
Eating organic meat is great and i would encourage all meat eaters to at least know how their meat is raised and killed. And i don't use leather products

P.s for me it does upset me about animals being bred for food, but it became where i just didn't want to eat meat, the body can find it really hard to digest, they force so much chemicals into them (obviously not organic) to make them gorw coz they can't grow normally in a stressful enviroment they are in. I had psoriasis before cutting meat out, now it's gone! There is NO cure for psoriasis!! So that say's a lot to me.

 

[DiablosGold]

Farrierlover - firstly completely agree with the PTS issue, I don't think any true 'animal lover' would prolong their pet's suffering for selfish reasons.

The thing is, being a vegetarian is a personal, ethical choice - and due to the 'veggie movement' some of the progress you talk about, particularly free range, etc, has been brought to the forefront of public attention. The anger about putting animal products in mars bars stopped that in its tracks. So it does make some difference in society

I don't want to lie in bed with something dead in my belly, personal choice right?

Re the milk issue, I struggle with that personally. I looked into drinking soya milk but I eat so much cheese I would probably lose a lot of protein/vits if I gave it up. Difficult one. But it's still not a dead thing entering my system.

 

[Sarah Sum1]

You can buy vegan cheese i hunted it out in Tesco, looks like Sh*t but i may give it a go, and you could always take a calcium supplement, suitable for vege's. It is a personal choice and i would never ever say to ameat eater you're wrong or cruel etc, so calling vege's cop outs is just plain mean

 

[wench]

why do some vegetarians say they are vegetarian, but then eat fish? surely fish is meat - it comes from a living animal?

 

[Sarah Sum1]

why do some vegetarians say they are vegetarian, but then eat fish? surely fish is meat - it comes from a living animal?

Yes i agree, but the vegetarian society say's even cutting out red meat at first is a start. I don't eat any meat or fish as i agree one life is as important as another.

Also to add, i think there are a lot of vegetarians who don't eat meat because they don't like it but may like fish So not moral.

 

[Malibu_Stacy]

Hi
I ride and I have a vegan friend who I recently spent a week on holiday with trying not to mention horses in anyway as she believes that its cruel to ride them - especially racehorses. We just dont talk about it! Its interesting there are vegans on here who obviously dont think like that ( apart from the racing obviously )

I get asked this a lot, how do I justify owning/riding a horse as I try in general to avoid animal products. I feel we (humans, as a species) have a duty of care to the animals we have domesticated. I can't go back in time and stop horses or other animals from being domesticated, but now that they have, I feel it is our responsibility to ensure they have a contented life. As its not appropriate/practical to just release them all back into the wild, then we have to provide for them as best we can in the environment we have. I ride and exercise my (rescue) horse because it gives her the stimulation and exercise she would not get if she was in a paddock all day long - remember in the wild horses may travel miles every day for food/water etc.

I don't have an issue with the concept of racing per say, you only have to watch youngsters in a field to see that they will tear round and race each other, for no other apparent reason that sheer enjoyment, BUT I do have certain reservations about the racing industry. Although some yards are very responsible and feel a strong duty of care towards all their neds, whether they have a successful career or not, there are enough that just want racing machines that I avoid the entire sport.

 

[Tickles]

QR
I'm a vegan not a vegetarian because eating dairy/buying leather etc makes the slaughter of animals necessary. If I could have fields of bullocks living into their dotage I might consider drinking their sisters' milk, similarly cockerels and eggs. Leather can be about 20% of the value of a carcass so isn't a by-product, it is an important part of the economics of slaughter. I don't have a problem with considerate riding, I do have a problem with causing unnecessary deaths.

- All my footwear, hand bags etc are synthetic or fabric
- If I owned not shared a horse then I'd try to get synthetic for the horse too, subject to reasonable fits for the animal in question being available.
- I do eat organic honey because there is no killing involved there.
- Peanut butter sarnies work very well in the place of bacon rolls and even I can make them ;-)
- I don't feed naturally vegan animals (like horses) cod liver oil - linseed is much more natural for them and does most of the same stuff
- Oh and please note I certainly do have animals PTS for their own benefit (only) when necessary.

To miss-quote Kate Moss: "Nothing tastes as good as vegan feels"

 

[Malibu_Stacy]

I know I'm going to come under fire here but we're all entitled to an opinion right?

I think being a vegetarian (unless for medical or taste reasons) is a cop out. If you're that upset about animals being raised for food then why eat dairy products? The cows don't just produce milk for no reason- they breed calves which are then slaughtered so we can drink the milk that was meant for them. If you do it for moral issues then how can you justify using ANY of the products? You may as well wear second hand fur coats since they're "already dead".

Thing is going the whole hog and being vegan is not an easy option. Being veggie in a country like the UK is (relatively) easy. Most foods are labelled as veggie/ non veggie, restaurants pretty much always have veggie options and its somewhat become mainstream enough that you can cut out meat without too much hassle (for yourself or others). Veganism on the other hand is still somewhat niche and does require a bit more effort to ensure a healthy balanced diet (I have to watch my weight over winter to make sure I don't lose too much, as I don't eat that much high calorie stuff). A lot of the veggies I know are trundling towards veganism at their own pace...I was veggie for about 6/7 years before I even thought about turning vegan, it took a further couple of years before I started to implement changes and another year or so before I eased into being fully vegan.

For the record, I am not vegetarian or vegan as I really don't think that it would make a difference to society BUT I make sure as far as I can that all meat I buy is organic/free range/locally reared as can be. I think that this is as much as you can do without being completely self sufficient and rearing/killing your own.

I don't agree, I think this is a case where every little bit does count. IMO there has been a definite trend over the past decade towards greater consideration of the animals used in meat production, as I said above I'd class vegetarianism as actually fairly mainstream now, at least compared to when I first became veggie (it was odd when I turned vegan suddenly being 'quirky' again, and having to do things like making sure there'd be a vegan option, whereas you can now pretty much assume they'll be something vegetarian provided, which I couldn't do when I first turned veggie). Even if there aren't any veggies/vegans overall (though I think there probably are) a lot more people put thought into what they're buying, like you do and go for organic/free range etc. As I said in a previous post, I'd consider this an achievement in reduction of animal suffering overall!

Regarding Vets putting animals to sleep- surely it would be better to relieve the suffering of an animal where you can rather than allowing it to continue to live in constant pain?

I, and I think most of the other posters here, agree with you - what I was trying to say earlier was although logically I can see that pts is the kindest option in some cases, I couldn't personally do the act myself (and hence why I could never be a vet), but in the appropriate situation I will ask someone less squemish to do the deed (e.g. when one of the yard cats has caught something and injured to the point where it can't survive in the wild, even though I know its kindest to put it out its misery, I still couldn't do it myself...I will however go and get one of the other liveries or YO, who are considerably more practical in this regard!)

 

[Malibu_Stacy]

QR
I'm a vegan not a vegetarian because eating dairy/buying leather etc makes the slaughter of animals necessary. If I could have fields of bullocks living into their dotage I might consider drinking their sisters' milk, similarly cockerels and eggs. Leather can be about 20% of the value of a carcass so isn't a by-product, it is an important part of the economics of slaughter. I don't have a problem with considerate riding, I do have a problem with causing unnecessary deaths.

- All my footwear, hand bags etc are synthetic or fabric
- If I owned not shared a horse then I'd try to get synthetic for the horse too, subject to reasonable fits for the animal in question being available.
- I do eat organic honey because there is no killing involved there.
- Peanut butter sarnies work very well in the place of bacon rolls and even I can make them ;-)
- I don't feed naturally vegan animals (like horses) cod liver oil - linseed is much more natural for them and does most of the same stuff
- Oh and please note I certainly do have animals PTS for their own benefit (only) when necessary.

To miss-quote Kate Moss: "Nothing tastes as good as vegan feels"

Tickles, I feel we're on exactly the same wavelength, particularly about if you could have a field filled with field ornaments! : )

 

[hannabanana]

there certainly is alot of opinions!! i can understand your points farrierlover, but my reasons are exactly the same as malibu-staceys. And for the whole dairy thing, yes its still not the best but alot of improvement has been made over the past few years. i grew up as a meat eater, but after a few aweful videos of animals being treat like utter **** i felt guilty and started a gradual cut out of meat. i became pescatarian purely for a transition, because i felt hard to give meat up, as we are meant to eat it and yes it tasted nice but the animals life meant alot more. TBH i couldnt go back to meat, it would just be hard to actually eat it, theres been a few times when i have accidently ate a product such as a yogurt with gelatine in it, and then vomited it back up again when i found out. plus i eat dairy because i find it hard to avoid dairy (especially in my household) and i always buy free range eggs too. For the PTS of course i wouldnt let any animal suffer, i just couldnt bring my self to it.

 

[hannabanana]

oh and speaking about the whole vegan against riding thing. Its funny i was reading an article about how its cruel and how horses should be free. But non of those people new how to ride or own a horse! mine loves going for a ride and comes to me in the field and greets me with a whinny. Im sure there would be more disaster if we would set horses free, there would be accidents all over the place. We domesticated them, we should take care of what we do. I mean look at free willy, people wanted him free, so they did, and died not long after due to not being able to cope. Now i dont like any of this sea world **** or training lions and tigers to jump through hoops becuase i think its entirely stupid a person making an animal that would usually maul us at the first chance it got to do things like that. Horse riding may not be natural, but there is a hell of alot of domesticated horses comapared to domesticated lions. It just wouldnt work. Plus not everyone is rich enough to buy a large piece of land to keep a mini herd. I could argue this case til i died.

 

[NeedNewHorse]

Yes, I have to agree being a vegetarian does have a stamp on society and it's crazy to say it doesn't.

Firstly as someone else said every little counts! Now us vegetarians have lots of food on offer to us, as there is a market. In most places to eat out there are veggie options. This would not be the case unless it was viable for them - so it's popular.

Let me say this, if it wasn't for people being concerned I only dread to think what would happen behind closed doors to get the public the cheapest easier meat possible. I think how the whole system is run is truely horrendous and that's us in the UK - We are one of the best welfare places out there! Heaven forbid any animal in china or aisa!

Every little helps as slowly but surely things are changing.. EG - Waitrose do not use caged hens in ALL of their products (ownbrands) whereas most of the other supermarkets still do. Secondly yes I do use milk (though I am slowly making the changes to being as Vegan as possible) as rightly so the dairy strade is horrendous and just as bad as the meat trade. However things asre changing, Waitrose by 2011 will not have any male calfs from the dairy trade shipped off to europe to be part of the veal trade (as unwanted male dairy calves do not make beef cattle!) So things are changing slowly but surely because some of the public do care!

To me, society has almost lead us to believe no meal is worth it unless meat is plonked somewhere in betweeen and I cannot blame anyone per se.. This is all you know.. lol

Biut some time ago meat was a sunday special..Now with this lovely cheap is cheap cruel farming practices good old meat is available in every outlet for non of the cost! Most vegetarians are only so, because of the pain and suffering caused! Not the actual eating part, though possibly like me, it's been too long. No way could I eat meat even if I wanted to!

xxx

 

[somethingorother]

I'm veggie and ride, but do not have my own horse. I don't mind using my shares leather tack and do not think 'i'm putting a dead cow on him' when i tack up. However if i got my own horse i have always told myself i will try very hard to find synthetic tack. I also try to buy synthetic riding boots and chaps, which are available, although sometimes hard to find well fitting ones. Similarly i try not to buy leather shoes for day to day, but i do have a couple of pairs, although most are synthetic.

I would love to be a vegan, but after seeing friends try and fail i just don't think i would be able to do it. I pretty much wouldn't be able to eat out at all, and i have struggled with the ethical issues of soya being grown on rainforests recently, as i have been seriously thinking about giving up milk. Ideally when i am rich *haha* i will have my own land and can keep a cow or two for what little milk i use the calf wouldn't miss it. But then what do i do with the calves when they are old enough to move on? They will most likely end up back in the chain.

I go by the 'every little helps' motto, i don't eat renne or whey or gelatine, or fish or fish products ie some cider uses parts of fish. I don't buy cosmetics tested on animals and i take vegetarian over the counter tablets, rather than capsules made from gelatine.

But i do use medicines, which sometimes only come in gelatine capsules. And most of these have been tested on animals. I am very against this, but i still use them if i need them, knowing it happens. I also know what happens to give me my cheese (which i live off) but eat free range eggs. I know when i eat out they're probably not free range used in things like pasta, but it's hard to avoid this. I do what i can, but it's not a perfect world and i'm not going to beat myself up too much as long as i am trying and hopefully making -some- difference...

Likewise to some people above, it is the ethics which mean i don't eat meat, i used to love the taste and chicken still smells good until i think about where it came from. But if i had my own animals and reared and killed them well, i still couldn't eat it because it's been too long without meat now. In principle though i have no problem with it.

 

[marmalade76]

Personally, I cannot see how a vegan can justify riding, why is it not ok to take an egg from a hen and eat it but fine to exploit a horse by expecting it to carry you around.

There was a vegan at the equine college I went to, she wore leather boots (not just riding boots) but went absolutely mad when she found a prawn in her salad! She was very skinny and pale and she also produced the most vile wind and didn't care who was around when she let it off.

 

[T_K]

QR I'm a vegetarian, have been for many years. The only leather I have is either stuff I've been given or really old stuff that we've always had, after all the animal has already been killed at that point and nothing is going to bring it back!

Any new gear is synthetic.

 

[hannabanana]

There was a vegan at the equine college I went to, she wore leather boots (not just riding boots) but went absolutely mad when she found a prawn in her salad! She was very skinny and pale and she also produced the most vile wind and didn't care who was around when she let it off.

She doesnt sound like a pleasent person vegan or not! :S i hate pumps in public, even if you need to go could she not of went into an open space or say excuse me?

 

[Candles]

Personally, I cannot see how a vegan can justify riding, why is it not ok to take an egg from a hen and eat it but fine to exploit a horse by expecting it to carry you around.

There was a vegan at the equine college I went to, she wore leather boots (not just riding boots) but went absolutely mad when she found a prawn in her salad! She was very skinny and pale and she also produced the most vile wind and didn't care who was around when she let it off.

As a vegan I oppose exploitation of animals, but enjoy their companionship and if a horse wants to be ridden, then I think it is fine to ride it. I don't use a whip though and usually use a bitless bridle. All my riding equipment is synthetic, and if the horse does not wish to be ridden or to do a particular thing, then I will try something else with it instead. Not all vegans agree, but I believe it is alright for a vegan to ride in certain ways. I love horses and riding them, but I don't use pain or fear to teach them

Your friend does sound very hypocritical (and smelly!) but we aren't all like that!

 

[Sheep]

..if a horse wants to be ridden, then I think it is fine to ride it. I don't use a whip though and usually use a bitless bridle.

I don't think horses necessarily 'want' to be ridden. I would describe it as they don't not want to be ridden.

Bitless doesn't necessarily mean better, or kinder.. bitless bridles can be as severe, or more so, than bitted ones.

 

[Super_Kat]

I'm vegetarian (bar the very occasional sausage sandwich)

So you're not vegetarian then

 

[Candles]

Bitless doesn't necessarily mean better, or kinder.. bitless bridles can be as severe, or more so, than bitted ones.

I disagree. It is easier to accidentally harm a horse's mouth with a bitted bridle, whereas with a bitless bridle it is more like a head collar.

 

[Candles]

I don't think horses necessarily 'want' to be ridden. I would describe it as they don't not want to be ridden.

Also, some horses enjoy being ridden a lot more and want you to ride them. Others prefer to do wrok without a person on their back. Some horses really do WANT to be ridden and will run up when it is time to be ridden

 

[rhino]

I disagree. It is easier to accidentally harm a horse's mouth with a bitted bridle, whereas with a bitless bridle it is more like a head collar.

Agree with sheep, there are a wide range of bitless options. How exactly is this one like a headcollar?

 

[Sheep]

I disagree. It is easier to accidentally harm a horse's mouth with a bitted bridle, whereas with a bitless bridle it is more like a head collar.

I disagree on the basis of sweeping, unsubstantiated generalisation and refer to the picture posted above

 

[Candles]

Actually you are right about that one. That is not at all like my bitless bridle, which looks like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CrossUnder-Bitless-Bridle-Black-Synthetic-MINI-Size-/140420825767
Yes there are some harsh bitless bridles too, but I think that my one at least would be softer on a horse than many bitted bridles.

 

[Sheep]

Also, some horses enjoy being ridden a lot more and want you to ride them. Others prefer to do wrok without a person on their back. Some horses really do WANT to be ridden and will run up when it is time to be ridden

Yeah sure once they are in the routine of it and trained for it, then they are fine. I'm not saying horses don't like to be ridden. When a horse doesn't want you on, it's no hassle for them to make it known. I think a lot of them are very happy doing their jobs, but an active 'want' doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Super_Kat]

Re burger vans - I usually have at least 3 egg rolls, with cheese, onions and burger sauce

Which they cook on the same bit as the bacon and burgers........ Okay

 

[Wagtail]

I am pescatarian (eat fish but not meat or poultry). I use and wear leather but not fur. The difference is that where the animal has been killed primarily for it's meat then I will wear/use the bi-products, but not when the animal has been killed for it's fur. Ideally, yes, I would probably go all the way and be vegan, but then how would we sutain our animals and what would happen to them all if everyone became vegan? In truth I admit, it is too darn hard to be vegan but I admire those who are. To me, it should be a matter of your conscience and what makes you feel content with yourself. You have to draw a line somewhere. My line is at not supporting the horrendous mass production of meat by eating animals. This is the point at which I am at peace with myself.

 

[Wagtail]

Which they cook on the same bit as the bacon and burgers........ Okay

That is true. However, my view is that I do not want to BUY meat and therefore support the meat industry. I do not care if I get a bit of meat by accident, though sometimes it makes me feel a bit sick!

 

[LaurenBay]

I'm vegetarian (bar the very occasional sausage sandwich) not vegan though so dairy & leather don't bother me. It's mainly a lifestyle choice, rather than a moral thing, although I don't think I'd go back to eating non-line caught fish, and I think I'd only become a regular meat eater again if I knew it were from my local, non-intensive farm. Ho hum.

So your not a vegitarian then, if you eat sausages

 

[PitPony]

I am avegetarian and have to say I have nver thought of it in conflict with my owning/riding horses. Eating it seems different to me then caring for and parntering a horse. I chose 22 years ago to stop eating meat as i just didnt want to eat animals...simple...I still love the smell of bacon but i would never eat it!
My leather tack lasted me years...I haven't eaten meat for 22years...I am not going to beat myself up over riding and caring for my horse when the people who had her before me beat her up instead.