Anyone else watching Badminton and cringing?

Just saw the score board posted on twitter - not sure if this'll work on here but...

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We must have had more withdrawn and eliminated this year than in the last three years put together. Was that just the wet weather, or do you think the course designer has a few questions to answer? Or just one of those things? Fox-Pitt's fall seemed bizarre! His horse just didn't jump the jump!
 
nuttychestnut said:
For anyone that missed the coverage it looks like it may be uploaded to this site http://www.tvcatchup.com/guide.html?hour=12
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Oh dear! I tried watching it on here.......... but got a blank screen - nothing happened. Do you need to have "signed up" for the TV Catch-up?? Typical that it has to be complicated!!

Woops, sorry, see someone else posting above me has had the same problem. I had to go out just as WFP had started......... looked a good round; but someone says he had a fall???

And did Mary King ride anything else other than Imperial Cavalier? The poxy stoopid Red Button kept flicking off and on earlier on, so might well have been then??
 
Well the course designer's been congratulated by Lucinda Green so I think it was partly down to the course being back to old school 4*
 
Those score boards do look bad! But I dont think the course designer did badly, I do think the ground made things difficult and the wind might have taken some horses concentration away (did see the odd plastic bag blowing across in front of them) - quite a few horses had stops due to slips prior to the fence. Problems / falls were quite evenly spread out, not just one particular fence. Badminton is meant to be tough, I think we should all be very happy that no horse was properly hurt.
 
Mary King only had one ride, I think she's only got about 6 horses nowadays anyway.

I think the lack of finishers was down to a few things. The course would have been hard under any conditions but the weather undoubtedly made it harder. Still remarkable how many top riders ran into trouble though - interesting to note that the only person to get two round was Izzy Taylor.

It'll be interesting to see how many get spun at the trot up tomorrow, i'd be quite surprised if all 35 do turn out for the SJing (and if it carries on raining that'll probably be very messy, a clear round could be very valuable).
 
And I haven't seen any TV coverage! After last year everyone was saying that Badminton was too tame and boring!

I walked the course on Thursday and thought it was hard, or back to what Badminton should be. I guess the weather will have had a big influence as the going must have been soft and slippy.
 
The judges appear to have given Beltane Queen and Shannondale Titan 21 pens for breaking the frangible pin.

I am not absolutely familiar with the rules on this type of penalty. However the commentators mentioned that it was at the discretion of the Ground Jury to remove these penalties where it was thought that the pin breaking did not prevent the horse falling.

Nicola's horse definitely only tapped the fence that broke. It was the upright rails going into the new water. It had been smacked a fair few times in the day before she got there. That will have weakened the pin.

It will be interesting to see if the penalties are removed.
 
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Darremi said:
The judges appear to have given Beltane Queen and Shannondale Tital 21 pens for breaking the frangible pin.

I am not absolutely familiar with the rules on this type of penalty. However the commentators mentioned that it was at the discretion of the Ground Jury to remove these penalties where it was thought that the pin breaking did not prevent the horse falling.

Nicola's horse definitely only tapped the fence that broke. It was the upright rails going into the new water. It had been smacked a fair few times in the day before she got there. That will have weakened the pin.

It will be interesting to see if the penalties are removed.
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I didn't watch SD's round but I absolutely don't think it is fair for Nicola to have penalties - she literally tapped it - always a compromise between safe fences and competition but I think that is unfair IMO.

The course looked challenging but doable - and riders today have proved it can be ridden. I have no idea how hard it must be to ride at that level in that weather but Nicolas horse is absolutely my new favourite horse - what a beautiful little mare!
 
Bill Levett's horse absolutely clouted those silver birch rails and would more than likely have fallen if the pin hadn't been there. That's what the penalties should be given for. I think Nicola Wilson has been really hard done by and I hope she manages to appeal against them.

As for cringing? Nahhh. You see a lot worse than that at BE90 level! I thought it was nice to see a proper 4* course that really needed to be ridden properly. I'm sick of courses that are nothing but skinnies and corners - you end up with a competition full of run outs. It probably just seems dramatic today cos of the number of falls. Quite a few of them were just unlucky and some were due to rider error. Harry Dzenis for example. He'd been having a lovely round but jeez, take a pull and give the horse a chance, would you?!
 
RunToEarth said:
I have no idea how hard it must be to ride at that level in that weather but Nicolas horse is absolutely my new favourite horse - what a beautiful little mare!
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Me to, she was lovely. The e-venting photos someone linked to (cheers) do make it look like the pin snapping at vicarage vee was a good thing though IMO. I was really surprised to see them as it had looked pretty smooth on tv.
 
The penalties for Nicola Wilson were given at the Vicarage Vee not the new water. The mare clouted it and skewed really badly, lucky to stay on their feet (thanks to the frangible pin). NW wasn't shown through that combo on tv hence everyone thinkibb it was for the new water but the pics are on e-venting and Facebook.
 
MegaBeast said:
The penalties for Nicola Wilson were given at the Vicarage Vee not the new water. The mare clouted it and skewed really badly, lucky to stay on their feet (thanks to the frangible pin). NW wasn't shown through that combo on tv hence everyone thinkibb it was for the new water but the pics are on e-venting and Facebook.
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I can't remember seeing it on tv...
 
Darremi said:
The judges appear to have given Beltane Queen and Shannondale Titan 21 pens for breaking the frangible pin.

I am not absolutely familiar with the rules on this type of penalty. However the commentators mentioned that it was at the discretion of the Ground Jury to remove these penalties where it was thought that the pin breaking did not prevent the horse falling.

Nicola's horse definitely only tapped the fence that broke. It was the upright rails going into the new water. It had been smacked a fair few times in the day before she got there. That will have weakened the pin.

It will be interesting to see if the penalties are removed.
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There is another thread going about this - it was for the Vicarage Vee. I didn't realise she had broken this one but there are photographs on FB
 
Darremi said:
The judges appear to have given Beltane Queen and Shannondale Titan 21 pens for breaking the frangible pin.

I am not absolutely familiar with the rules on this type of penalty. However the commentators mentioned that it was at the discretion of the Ground Jury to remove these penalties where it was thought that the pin breaking did not prevent the horse falling.

Nicola's horse definitely only tapped the fence that broke. It was the upright rails going into the new water. It had been smacked a fair few times in the day before she got there. That will have weakened the pin.

It will be interesting to see if the penalties are removed.
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^^^This ^^^

Jeesuusss !!!..So because these horses and riders didn't die in a rotational fall but broke the pin, they are being penalized ?!!!

Only in the UK eh ?
 
Iownayetti said:
^^^This ^^^

Jeesuusss !!!..So because these horses and riders didn't die in a rotational fall but broke the pin, they are being penalized ?!!!

Only in the UK eh ?
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Technically though, even xc you're not meant to hit the fences and because the fence has dropped you've cleared a fence lower than someone else who didn't hit it. I can see the reasoning.

And it was fence 15, not the pond fence.
 
Iownayetti said:
^^^This ^^^

Jeesuusss !!!..So because these horses and riders didn't die in a rotational fall but broke the pin, they are being penalized ?!!!

Only in the UK eh ?
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I thought it was outrageous until people pointed out they got the faults for Vicarage Vee and I saw the photos. Now I think they really might have fallen if the pin didn't go, which would have been elimination.
 
undergroundoli said:
I thought it was outrageous until people pointed out they got the faults for Vicarage Vee and I saw the photos. Now I think they really might have fallen if the pin didn't go, which would have been elimination.
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I still think it's a case of " Ok, they didn't die like they would of last year so lets NAIL 'EM"
 
Iownayetti said:
^^^This ^^^

Jeesuusss !!!..So because these horses and riders didn't die in a rotational fall but broke the pin, they are being penalized ?!!!

Only in the UK eh ?
Click to expand...

I think the view is they would have had penalties had the pin not broken as traditionally all XC fences are fixed.

I don't think it's being penalised as such for avoiding death - no one wants that hence why they were introduced in the first place - more to try and bring about an element of fairness because if someone hit a fence without a pin and then had a run out because it knocked them off course compared to a horse that failed to jump cleanly, smashed a tangible pin but stayed on course due to the fence giving way.

Also they could be seen as trying to keep eventerz safe by discouraging sloppy riding to such fences just because there happens to be a tangible pin and hence they can 'get away' with not jumping as cleanly to set them up for the next jump.
 
Iownayetti said:
I still think it's a case of " Ok, they didn't die like they would of last year so lets NAIL 'EM"
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think its fair to let a combination that are saved from a fall by a pin go on to win over a combo that made a similar mistake but hit the ground and were eliminated. Obviously I agree that if a pins been weakened and goes when a horse taps it then the jury shouldn't award points. I see that the will be inconsistencies, but I think its the least unfair way of doing things now we have pins.
 
Fransurrey said:
Being a classy bird I have had a glass of Prosecco. Whoops there goes Pitt!
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It looked like you gave him one too ;)!

It's been nicely shaken up and good to see some others than just the regulars in with a chance of a really great placing!
 
MegaBeast said:
The penalties for Nicola Wilson were given at the Vicarage Vee not the new water. The mare clouted it and skewed really badly, lucky to stay on their feet (thanks to the frangible pin). NW wasn't shown through that combo on tv hence everyone thinkibb it was for the new water but the pics are on e-venting and Facebook.
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Thanks for clarifying. The photos are unavailable at present.

I think the 21 penalty rule is designed to prevent riders taking the pinned fences for granted. Knowing you need a clean jump at a frangible pin hopefully makes the riders respect the fence and ride it in a safer manner.
 
Iownayetti said:
I still think it's a case of " Ok, they didn't die like they would of last year so lets NAIL 'EM"
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? Really? What a silly thing to say - she is an athlete and no doubt one who understands the rules. For fairly obvious reasons it isn't good to hit xc fences, the pin has done exactly what it has been designed for and saved a very nasty fall. It still stands that the pin was fractured. I was disappointed for her when I thought it was the pond fence but seeing the pictures at vv - completely understand the decision.
 
I was just glad I was watching it at home with the heating on, rather than there in the wind and rain.
 
Just home from it. It was really windy - hats off to those cameramen who froze their butts off all day trying to keep cameras still on the end of long poles. I could barely keep hold of my brolly! Luckily it didn't rain much.

Quite a surreal experience, so many riders didn't make it round. We managed to walk to the next fence, sit down and have a full picnic and bottle of bubbly before the next rider came.

I didn't think it was too bad a course, all in. Some fences were massive, but the main issues seemed to be a fair few fences that were jumped without the horses being able to see the landing and then a skinny a stride or two later on a sharp turn. I think if they hadn't got rid of part B at the Designer outlet mound they would have probably got even more riders eliminated. The ground held up great, didn't look to be a mark on it.

Some of the falls seemed unusual. WFP fell off right in front of us, his horse looked to clip the fence with it's front feet, looked as though it would recover, then almost forgot to put his legs down again.

We still had a great day. It was nice to have plenty of time to walk to the next fence between riders. I must say, I'm quite glad I haven't got show jumping tickets, it won't last long!!
 
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