Anyone else's barefoot horses feeling their feet at the moment?

rising_promise

rising_promise

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My mare has been barefoot for around 18 months now.

We event up to BE100 level

She's not usually a 'footy' horse and copes well with all types of terrain in general and (obviously!) competes without studs without a problem.

However, last weekend she didn't cope very well. I think the heat really didn't help but I'm now starting to think are her feet causing her problems? Just lacked sparkle in the SJ, 4 down and very lacklustre which she never does and felt like she felt her feet a lot more. The XC ground was much nicer but she had a stop (again, unlike her) so I retired as I knew she just wasn't up for it.

Went for a hack last night and she was striding out beautifully on the grass but her stride shortened considerably on the concrete.

I spoke to the farrier a couple of weeks ago, telling him that she was fine still with no shoes on but ofcourse since then, the ground has hardened with all the hot weather we've had and I now considering putting shoes back on her. I really don't want to because I'm aware of all of the benefits of being barefoot.

Are your horses feeling the ground at the moment too??
 
no mine is rock crunching! BUT when we came into spring with the grass I had to take her off ALL molasses. She now has oat straw chaff with vits and mins as she's fat but before then was on pure feed easy as this was the only diet I could find for her without alfalfa or molasses. Even nuts have molasses to bind them. This really did make a difference to her. I believe the grass is still extremely rich so would give this a go. The only thing that would worry me is her lack of energy and reluctance to jump, could it be a mild virus or concussion rather than the foot itself?
 
its the grass coming through at the moment which seems to be causing them to be footy as the sugar is quite high at the moment, if you can restrict her grasing you will probably see a difference almost immediatly
 
Yes my TB is footy at the moment, mainly over gravel but just does not right on concrete either on the road shes fine. I think its the grass and hard ground but not sure what to do about it. Shes out 24/7 and there's no way that she can be kept in a stable 24/7 or even during the day as there are no other ponies in and she will go mental! She hasen't got a lot of grass at the moment, its short but I am thinking of making her field smaller. It's such a nightmare. I've order some hoofboots and there coming tomorrow so hopefully that will help with riding.
 
Thanks for your replies.

She did the 'I'm really not up for this Mum' a couple of years ago when the heat so as extreme as it was on Sunday so I'd sort of thought it was this problem again but the hack last night got me thinking.

She is not on any sugared feeds anyway, hasn't been for 2 years, she has Alfa A and Oats with a vits and mins supplement.

She is a very good doer though her routine changed for the Summer last week- turned out overnight instead of during the day on very good grass so this I'm sure isn't helping either. I have ordered her a grazing muzzle which should arrive today so hopefully that'll help the situation!
 
rising_promise said:
Thanks for your replies.

She did the 'I'm really not up for this Mum' a couple of years ago when the heat so as extreme as it was on Sunday so I'd sort of thought it was this problem again but the hack last night got me thinking.

She is not on any sugared feeds anyway, hasn't been for 2 years, she has Alfa A and Oats with a vits and mins supplement.

She is a very good doer though her routine changed for the Summer last week- turned out overnight instead of during the day on very good grass so this I'm sure isn't helping either. I have ordered her a grazing muzzle which should arrive today so hopefully that'll help the situation!
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Mine is barefoot and has been as sound as a pound for the last year. 2 weeks ago he was just not 100% in trot nothing extreme just a bit meh! The only thing that had changed was that due to the mud in his near starvation paddock (he gets hay in there 24/7) the YO had moved them into a field with much more grass.

Four days of being turned out in the school and stabled during the day with hay and the Meh feeling was gone and he was 100% again. I have also bought him a grazing muzzle so he can go out with the others in this field for a few hours if needs be.

I called my farrier to see if he had noticed anything at the last trim and his reaction was " It's the grass, I keep telling people what with all the rain and then the sun its like bloody poison at the moment" enough said ;-)
 
Chavhorse said:
Mine is barefoot and has been as sound as a pound for the last year. 2 weeks ago he was just not 100% in trot nothing extreme just a bit meh! The only thing that had changed was that due to the mud in his near starvation paddock (he gets hay in there 24/7) the YO had moved them into a field with much more grass.

Four days of being turned out in the school and stabled during the day with hay and the Meh feeling was gone and he was 100% again. I have also bought him a grazing muzzle so he can go out with the others in this field for a few hours if needs be.

I called my farrier to see if he had noticed anything at the last trim and his reaction was " It's the grass, I keep telling people what with all the rain and then the sun its like bloody poison at the moment" enough said ;-)
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That's helpful, thanks. Hopefully it's just the grass then. Her field size is being reduced and with the muzzle I hope this will help the issue.

She jumped 3 beautiful rounds on a surface last weekend but just on the grass (which was good to firm I'd say) she wasn't pulling my arms out as she usually is!

She's 100% sound but just felt 'footy'.

Thanks for the tips everyone.
 
Mine isn't barefoot, but he's the same. Just for the last few days he's been a bit unhappy in our big field where I ride and school. Just seemed a bit 'short' in trot, barely detectable to anyone that doesn't know him. The ground is really compacted out there and its like concrete at the moment. I have cut his grass right back though he wasn't on masses as I'm paranoid, but it seems to have helped. I hacked out last night and he was fine and happy to go forward and lunged in the school this morning and he was demented, then cantered off up the field when I put him out so I think its probably a combination of the grass and the hard ground. I am going to be watching him like a hawk for the rest of the summer now!
 
Yes, I know a few recently that haven't been as happy with the ground suddenly changing from soft to hard.

I'll see if reducing her grass consumption has any bearings and it it doesn't will talk to the farrier to see what he suggests re shoes or no shoes
 
Rising Promise if your horse is normally barefoot then you could get some of the cheaper hoof boots (Cavello's are not to pricey and easy to put on) and use them for turnout. Mine has severe sidebones so is not good on hard ground so we tend to just pop his boots on when the ground is iron hard which does the trick.
 
Chavhorse said:
Rising Promise if your horse is normally barefoot then you could get some of the cheaper hoof boots (Cavello's are not to pricey and easy to put on) and use them for turnout. Mine has severe sidebones so is not good on hard ground so we tend to just pop his boots on when the ground is iron hard which does the trick.
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She's not that bad I don't think, not enough to warrant turning out in boots but thank you for the suggestion :)

Also, turned her out in Marquis boots a couple of years ago for a night and it rubbed so badly I had to have the vet out so has kind of put me off them now :(

I do avoid competing her on hard ground so would not be running her XC if the ground wasn't good, it was just the SJ that was hard this weekend and that's where she was at her worst. 100% sound, just not as free flowing as usual.
 
The thing is, the feet have had little time to get accustomed to the freshly baked hard ground. Hooves are amazingly adaptable but do need a bit of time to put down more sole and as we know, the extra carbs/sugar at the moment is making the whole thing a bit of a challenge.

I have become more sympathetic having been barefoot for nearly two years and just gone with the flow and reading the feet as I go. You have good weeks, you have bad and actually, with barefoot we have more good weeks than bad compared to our shod life.

One thing I did find with my boy was that alfalfa can sometimes irritate the gut. I took him off the lite unmollassed alfalfa and he was fine again. We managed a really hard going hunter trial twice at breakneck speed. We stopped all feed and just added a copper lick in the field and we never didn't see a problem again until the autumn when grass nutrients have a bit of a flourish. Still use alfalfa, just not all year. The copper was CPT's idea and actually, it has been invaluable!

I think, if you need your horse to perform to succeed in competition, you can always put a pair of shoes on. It's there to help you, and just because you put shoes on doesn't mean they have to stay on forever. If you can find boots to do the job and the rules say you can, you have another option. Why shouldn't shoes/boots become part of the tack that you can put off and on when necessary?
 
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I would suggest it is the grass.

About 6 weeks ago my boy went out from relatively poor, but quite sufficient grazing to very long, lush grazing and within 48 hours was having to be kept in 20 hours a day on soaked hay as the sheer volume of grass he was able to consume in his new field meant sugar overload and severe footiness. After weeks of 3 visits to the ard a day, he is now out in a small pen with much shorter grass and is improving daily :)... shame they will be swapping back to their original field in the next few weeks which will undoubtedly mean starting all over again!!

I would keep a very close eye on the grass consumption and if posible section part of the field off to be munched down for your horse when out. While grazing muzzles do the job, they aren't particularly nice for the wearer! ;)
 
rising_promise said:
Went for a hack last night and she was striding out beautifully on the grass but her stride shortened considerably on the concrete.

I spoke to the farrier a couple of weeks ago, telling him that she was fine still with no shoes on but ofcourse since then, the ground has hardened with all the hot weather we've had and I now considering putting shoes back on her. I really don't want to because I'm aware of all of the benefits of being barefoot.

Are your horses feeling the ground at the moment too??
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To know what to do next, I think it's important to understand why your mare is uncomfortable after being happy for 18 months.

Most people will attribute it to the ground hardening up and horses being unable to cope with this.
But why?

The theory is that the high levels of sugar in the grass at certain times of year, coupled with imbalances of the mineral content causes inflammation to the laminae.
We don't really know why but horses don't suffer with heart disease like we do - they get hoof disease instead. 'Poor' diet causes poor hooves and any problems internally goes straight to the laminae and starts attacking it :(
This is why when there is a change in the horse's routine or if they have been exposed to a trauma (like surgery) or toxins (like wormers or vaccines), you will see a ripple in the hoof wall after a few months to signal what happened that day.

Can you see the 'event line' on the hoof wall in this pic? (Ignore the arrow to the heel and look at the toe area). This was caused purely by a horse having surgery.
eventline.jpg


So what does this mean to you?

If you look around at some of the other threads, you will see many 'footy horse' 'laminitic horse' threads. It is the higher levels of sugars in the grasses that are causing inflammation and weakness to the laminae. Some horses can resist it, some have too many factors that add up to cause discomfort.

One way to test this theory is to remove the horse from any grass for 24 - 48 hours and see if that makes her more comfortable.

If it is the case, what does that mean for the future?

It's often a cause of striking a balance and taking stressers off the horse to give her some leeway.
I don't like to just say 'take them off grass' as I don't think that is feasible for most owners.
Some horses improve with a balanced mineral supplement.
Some horses improve with gut aids.
Some horses improve with more exercise (boots and pads can help to make them comfortable enough to do so).
Some horses improve with night turnout only.
Some horses improve with a muzzle

Some just can't cope with the grass at all at this time of year, and the owner must choose to find a non-grass solution or to shoe the horse (which will not fix the underlying problem - but will make the horse more comfortable).

What would I do if she were mine?

I would remove high calorie feeds, add some balanced minerals and gut aid to the diet, get a set of boots and work, work, work her (within her comfort levels).

If it came to it - there is no harm in putting some shoes on for the season and taking them off when the grass is 'safe'.

http://www.safergrass.org/
 
tallyho- Thanks for that. I've been discussing it with a few friends and they say the same as you, just because you have to put shoes on doesn't mean I'm giving up on the barefoot or anything, just that I can't compete properly without shoes at certain times of the year. At the end of the day she's a competition horse, we are reg with BE and she needs to be able to compete without problems. Before I took them all off full time, I used to take them off from October to March with no problems at all.

CBFan- I know the muzzles can't be very nice for them to wear but I don't really see what option I have. She's overweight and needs not to be, I can't do any more work with her and she already works 6/7 days a week but lives on fresh air (and lush grass!!). We are going to partition a bit of her field off but at the end of the day I'd rather she go out for 16 hours a day with a muzzle on than be stuck in the stable from 4pm to 8am and out in the heat of the day. Rightly or wrongly, that's what I believe.

Thanks very much for your replies :)
 
Oberon- thanks very much for the advice.

Per week she does 3 x schooling sessions, 1x lunge, 1 x jump/ competition all on a surface with 2 hacks also (mixed road/ grass) so the boots really aren't necessary for day to day work and she can't wear them for BE as rules don't allow it.

She was only slightly 'off', still 100% sound but just not her usual enthusiastic self so I'm pretty much convinced her feet were causing her probs. You're right when you say I can put shoes on and take them off again if needed, think that's what I'll have to do.

Thanks for your help :)
 
Oberon said:
What would I do if she were mine?

I would remove high calorie feeds, add some balanced minerals and gut aid to the diet, get a set of boots and work, work, work her (within her comfort levels).



http://www.safergrass.org/
Click to expand...

Which gut aids would you recommend, and which mineral supplements as well for that matter? I do feed the feedmark vits and mins but not really sure if its sufficient. My horse is out at grass for the summer now, which I am managing with electric fencing/strip grazing him. He lives on fresh air so I'm having to be quite brutal about how much I give him to stop him putting on weight. He is ridden every day, hacking and schooling, but it would probably only be considered light work I guess. I give him a handful of hifi and a small handful of grass nuts with the vits in, I only put the grass nuts in as he wont eat the hifi on its own. After losing my last horse of 10 years to lammy last summer, despite him never having had it before and appearing to only have a 'mild' attack, I have lost all faith in my ability to get the feeding right.
 
rising_promise said:
Oberon- thanks very much for the advice.

Per week she does 3 x schooling sessions, 1x lunge, 1 x jump/ competition all on a surface with 2 hacks also (mixed road/ grass) so the boots really aren't necessary for day to day work and she can't wear them for BE as rules don't allow it.

She was only slightly 'off', still 100% sound but just not her usual enthusiastic self so I'm pretty much convinced her feet were causing her probs. You're right when you say I can put shoes on and take them off again if needed, think that's what I'll have to do.

Thanks for your help :)
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It may well be that just tinkering with her feed and grazing regime may be all she needs.

Boots aren't going to work for your purposes :D. I can imagine one flying off and hitting a fence judge in the face :p

If you do have her shod, please bring her in for 24 hours before the farrier comes, to lessen the chance of her having any inflammation that can cause pain when the shoes are being hammered on.

A livery's horse was on the cusp of lami and then went into acute lami as soon as the horse was reshod. The banging just pushed her over the edge.
 
seoirse said:
Which gut aids would you recommend, and which mineral supplements as well for that matter? I do feed the feedmark vits and mins but not really sure if its sufficient. My horse is out at grass for the summer now, which I am managing with electric fencing/strip grazing him. He lives on fresh air so I'm having to be quite brutal about how much I give him to stop him putting on weight. He is ridden every day, hacking and schooling, but it would probably only be considered light work I guess. I give him a handful of hifi and a small handful of grass nuts with the vits in, I only put the grass nuts in as he wont eat the hifi on its own. After losing my last horse of 10 years to lammy last summer, despite him never having had it before and appearing to only have a 'mild' attack, I have lost all faith in my ability to get the feeding right.
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I'll pm you :).
 
rising_promise said:
tallyho- Thanks for that. I've been discussing it with a few friends and they say the same as you, just because you have to put shoes on doesn't mean I'm giving up on the barefoot or anything, just that I can't compete properly without shoes at certain times of the year. At the end of the day she's a competition horse, we are reg with BE and she needs to be able to compete without problems. Before I took them all off full time, I used to take them off from October to March with no problems at all.

CBFan- I know the muzzles can't be very nice for them to wear but I don't really see what option I have. She's overweight and needs not to be, I can't do any more work with her and she already works 6/7 days a week but lives on fresh air (and lush grass!!). We are going to partition a bit of her field off but at the end of the day I'd rather she go out for 16 hours a day with a muzzle on than be stuck in the stable from 4pm to 8am and out in the heat of the day. Rightly or wrongly, that's what I believe.

Thanks very much for your replies :)
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I totally feel your frustration and it is completely up to you re the use of the muzzle... I purely suggested the 'bare' paddock as an alternative as I don't like them...which could actually mean she can be out 24/7 and comfortable. If you can remove her from the lush grass and be very strict about the amount of hay / feed she gets, I think you will be suprised at how quickly she can lose weight as it will be this that is making her overweight, not the fresh air!... Particularly if you can get her on a track like system where she has to move to eat... This is what I aspire to with my boy but unless I can enlist the help of some 'pre-munchers' to eat the track down in preparation for him I suspect I might be thwarted!!

Good luck!
 
Hi

very interesting thread :-) My daughter's connie mare has been barefoot & doing really well for nearly 10 weeks now but like you, i have just noticed that she's not 100% right, less forward going than usual down the road & seeking out verges to walk on.
She has bee self trimming nicely but i had my farrier look at her feet on Monday, he filed the edges as we are getting to the nail holes & also trimmed the frog, which i'm not sure he should be doing? Is it normal for them to be a little footy after a trim?

We are really hoping that she will be able to event again in the Autumn but i'm not sure i'd be brave enough to send them out without studs, how did you manage?

Hope that you're horse is back to normal soon. Good luck with the rest of the season.
 
CBFan said:
I totally feel your frustration and it is completely up to you re the use of the muzzle... I purely suggested the 'bare' paddock as an alternative as I don't like them...which could actually mean she can be out 24/7 and comfortable. If you can remove her from the lush grass and be very strict about the amount of hay / feed she gets, I think you will be suprised at how quickly she can lose weight as it will be this that is making her overweight, not the fresh air!... Particularly if you can get her on a track like system where she has to move to eat... This is what I aspire to with my boy but unless I can enlist the help of some 'pre-munchers' to eat the track down in preparation for him I suspect I might be thwarted!!

Good luck!
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She can't stay out 24/7 because she's at livery and they all come in during the day but I know what you mean and the theory behind it. I am very strict with her hay (in that she hardly has any!) and her hard feed so the grass is definitely the issue at the moment. I should only need to keep the muzzle on whilst the others are munching the grass down, then she'll be able to have a reprieve! :)

Good doers, who'd have 'em eh? At least they're cheap! ;)
 
HazyXmas said:
Hi

very interesting thread :-) My daughter's connie mare has been barefoot & doing really well for nearly 10 weeks now but like you, i have just noticed that she's not 100% right, less forward going than usual down the road & seeking out verges to walk on.
She has bee self trimming nicely but i had my farrier look at her feet on Monday, he filed the edges as we are getting to the nail holes & also trimmed the frog, which i'm not sure he should be doing? Is it normal for them to be a little footy after a trim?

We are really hoping that she will be able to event again in the Autumn but i'm not sure i'd be brave enough to send them out without studs, how did you manage?

Hope that you're horse is back to normal soon. Good luck with the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Mine's not usually footy after a trim but I've heard of others that have been.

I can honestly say I've had no problems whatsoever without studs. Flown round BE90 without in March and April, last weekend was a BE100 which as you've probably read, didn't go to plan but the fact that we didn't have studs wasn't an issue at all.

I think I'm going to need shoes/ studs for the next couple of months as they tend to slip more when the ground is slightly firmer I've found (though if it's too firm, I won't be running her anyway) but would have no problems taking them off again for the Autumn events when the ground has softened up.

Someone commented as I was walking back to the lorry from the SJ on Sunday 'your horse has lost a shoe'- told him that it would be impossible as she's not wearing any. He looked quite shocked! :eek:
 
HazyXmas said:
Hi

very interesting thread :-) My daughter's connie mare has been barefoot & doing really well for nearly 10 weeks now but like you, i have just noticed that she's not 100% right, less forward going than usual down the road & seeking out verges to walk on.
She has bee self trimming nicely but i had my farrier look at her feet on Monday, he filed the edges as we are getting to the nail holes & also trimmed the frog, which i'm not sure he should be doing? Is it normal for them to be a little footy after a trim?

We are really hoping that she will be able to event again in the Autumn but i'm not sure i'd be brave enough to send them out without studs, how did you manage?

Hope that you're horse is back to normal soon. Good luck with the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

Your mare is one of the many at the moment :p.

No - a horse shouldn't be sore after a trim. But even the most conservative of trims can push a sub-clinical lami horse over the edge. It could be a case of 'wrong place, wrong time' but I would be watchful of it happening again and I would discourage routine trimming of the frog or sole area. It is sometimes necessary to trim off a hanging flap from a shedding frog to expose a covered area to the air. But I doubt it would be necessary in dry conditions.
It is important to communicate with your farrier if the last trim made her sore so he can adjust accordingly.

Studs are something that you would need to shoe for as there is no current alternative to studs in the barefoot world. Studs themselves is a matter or preference. Some say they need them. Some say they don't need them and that they cause excess strain on the joints.
 
Oberon, please can you advise me about mineral supplements & gut aids too?! I've started feeding mag ox & they already have balancer, & one has Gastriaid, just wondering what else I could be doing?! Thanks :) (sorry for hijacking too!)
 
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